Auditioning this guy today:

 

 

From what I gather, it needs a long time to warm up so it's too early to pass any kind of judgement.

Interesting system.

 

We have a similar taste in music, mine is classical leaning towards large orchestral. I gone the horn route myself. But currently tossing an idea for a second system. Some weird mix of OB and vintage horns maybe.

5 minutes ago, Happy said:

Interesting system.

 

We have a similar taste in music, mine is classical leaning towards large orchestral. I gone the horn route myself. But currently tossing an idea for a second system. Some weird mix of OB and vintage horns maybe.

Thanks.

 

After toying with the idea of using exotic materials, I now have a friend who's keen into cabinetry helping me with the next frame design for the speakers. It will be much MUCH better than the current one and I'm very excited. The ability to chop and change designs quickly and test them out makes wood so much easier to work with. I also plan to add a second woofer (well actually replace the 4 ohm 32cm woofer with 2x8 ohm 32cm woofers) in the design in that quest for linearity at all volume levels, and to use up some more of that absurd extra juice the power amps have over what I currently can use.

Edited July 25, 20187 yr by Ittaku

5 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

and to use up some more of that absurd extra juice the power amps have over what I currently can use.

?   Adding more drivers (and keeping the SPL constant) will mean less 'juice' is used   

 

Good to try different baffle shapes - as the width of the baffle vs Hz affects the response of a dipole significantly.  ?

1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

?   Adding more drivers (and keeping the SPL constant) will mean less 'juice' is used   

Yes but the idea is to be able to get to higher SPLs Changing from 1 x 4 ohm 91dB to 2 x 8 ohm 88 dB, but I'll be in the linear range more at normal volumes and crank a few more dB if I want to go deaf, so yeah I can take more juice.

Only had the Dave on for about an hour and I don't like it so far ?

Ah, OK.   Adding a second driver will give you +6dB in maximum SPL.  ?

48 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Only had the Dave on for about an hour and I don't like it so far ?

Your a smart man auditioning DACs at home before buying.  But how does a new DAC fit in your active crossover set up ?

 

59 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

?   Adding more drivers (and keeping the SPL constant) will mean less 'juice' is used   

 

Good to try different baffle shapes - as the width of the baffle vs Hz affects the response of a dipole significantly.  ?

Thanks for your educational posts. Being so switched on do you know of any multichannel multi-bit DACs that can be used for DIY active speakers? I want all the crossovers done on the PC and no ADC stages. I cant afford the MSB multichannel DAC in case you were wondering.  Cheers.

1 minute ago, Nada said:

You're a smart man auditioning DACs at home before buying.  But how does a new DAC fit in your active crossover set up ?

The dspeaker x4 has digital out for the main channels so I'm trying DACs for the actual digital to analogue conversion stage after the dspeaker has done its DSP, whilst it is all still in the digital domain. Fortunately, the dspeaker accepts, works natively with, and outputs high res digital unlike many other DSPs out there that resample to whatever (usually 24/48). So I'm not using the Dave in its ideal usage since it'll only be the main channels (and not the sub) and there is a layer of DSP before it hits the Dave, but the final analogue conversion stage is where the money is (especially in the case of the Dave which is a lot of money.) The Dspeaker also does reclocking and signal regeneration so it's acting as a USB to coax conversion as well.

 

I have experimented with removing the DSP as well just to see what the Dave sounds like natively without the DSP. Using my x-ray goggles to "see through" the lack of room correction, I still hear the same sonic signature from the Dave. It's been on for a couple of hours now and I still don't like it, but CAV told me to give it MANY hours before assessing it so I'm keeping an open mind.

28 minutes ago, Nada said:

I cant afford the MSB multichannel DAC in case you were wondering.

Hah.  You and me both.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

The dspeaker x4 has digital out for the main channels so I'm trying DACs for the actual digital to analogue conversion stage after the dspeaker has done its DSP, whilst it is all still in the digital domain. Fortunately, the dspeaker accepts, works natively with, and outputs high res digital unlike many other DSPs out there that resample to whatever (usually 24/48). So I'm not using the Dave in its ideal usage since it'll only be the main channels (and not the sub) and there is a layer of DSP before it hits the Dave, but the final analogue conversion stage is where the money is (especially in the case of the Dave which is a lot of money.) The Dspeaker also does reclocking and signal regeneration so it's acting as a USB to coax conversion as well.

 

I have experimented with removing the DSP as well just to see what the Dave sounds like natively without the DSP. Using my x-ray goggles to "see through" the lack of room correction, I still hear the same sonic signature from the Dave. It's been on for a couple of hours now and I still don't like it, but CAV told me to give it MANY hours before assessing it so I'm keeping an open mind.

So what’s the DAC for the LF channels?

Just now, Happy said:

So what’s the DAC for the LF channels?

The Dspeaker analogue out.

1 minute ago, Ittaku said:

The Dspeaker analogue out.

Ahhh fair enough

 

so does it sound substantially better with Dave in the main chs?

 

If so, in what ways?

 

I rely on miniDSP 4x10 for my purposes so it’s interesting.

29 minutes ago, Happy said:

Ahhh fair enough

 

so does it sound substantially better with Dave in the main chs?

 

If so, in what ways?

 

I rely on miniDSP 4x10 for my purposes so it’s interesting.

No, I'm horrified. The Dave sounds terrible. The Dspeaker analogue out is beautiful sweet, delicate, and natural sounding by comparison. The Dave is adding tons of extra detail but otherwise sounds awful. It's all brittle and glare'y like early digital. I'm stumped. This was NOT the sound I was expecting from an 18k DAC of any sort. The detail is consistent with an extreme DAC but it's not remotely musical. I called up CAV to ask the rep and he said no one had ever reported the sound of the Dave like that. Whatever the reason is, it simply does.not.work in my system. The Topping DAC sounded better.

?

We'll see if many more hours of running/warming can save it...

 

Edited July 25, 20187 yr by Ittaku

1 hour ago, Nada said:

multichannel multi-bit DACs

Exasound make an 8 channel DAC using ESS Sabre part

MiniDSP make an 8 channel DAC using a lower performance AK part

 

These might not be multibit enough for you, though  (I suspect you mean you don't want a delta signal modulator in the design).

 

There are quite a few 'pro' brands who do multichannel devices... at many price points.

35 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

No, I'm horrified. The Dave sounds terrible. The Dspeaker analogue out is beautiful sweet, delicate, and natural sounding by comparison. The Dave is adding tons of extra detail but otherwise sounds awful. It's all brittle and glare'y like early digital. I'm stumped. This was NOT the sound I was expecting from an 18k DAC of any sort. The detail is consistent with an extreme DAC but it's not remotely musical. I called up CAV to ask the rep and he said no one had ever reported the sound of the Dave like that. Whatever the reason is, it simply does.not.work in my system. The Topping DAC sounded better.

?

We'll see if many more hours of running/warming can save it...

 

Very interesting and I like how you don’t get swayed by the dollar factor

1 minute ago, Happy said:

Very interesting and I like how you don’t get swayed by the dollar factor

Thanks. I've brought some pretty expensive stuff home over the years only to take it straight back. When it's awesome, I don't even bother taking it back to the store; I don't let them take it away. This is not one of those items ?

7 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Thanks. I've brought some pretty expensive stuff home over the years only to take it straight back. When it's awesome, I don't even bother taking it back to the store; I don't let them take it away. This is not one of those items ?

ええ、本当に羨ましいです！

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

We'll see if many more hours of running/warming can save it...

Follow up after 4 hours of it being on and switching back and forth - the bulk of the horrible glare and brittleness has gone! This thing seriously needed to be warm for hours before I could judge it. So I was too critical in my earlier appraisal, and while there's still a hint of that glare, it may keep improving and should just be left on permanently. Compared to the Dspeaker now it is a little more open like removing a thin veil (not dramatic) and has more detail, but the Dspeaker is still more musical, liquid, and natural sounding to my ears. Maybe after it's been on for a year continuously it will sound awesome... or not.

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

....... The Topping DAC sounded better.

?

We'll see if many more hours of running/warming can save it...

 

Which Topping DAC model?

 

Maybe give the Dave a good 48hours fed pink noise at 100% playing  into a lower impedance dummy load?

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

Exasound make an 8 channel DAC using ESS Sabre part

MiniDSP make an 8 channel DAC using a lower performance AK part

 

These might not be multibit enough for you, though  (I suspect you mean you don't want a delta signal modulator in the design).

 

There are quite a few 'pro' brands who do multichannel devices... at many price points.

Im sure they are all great but Im prejudiced against delta-stigmas modulation after consistent disappointment. Any 16bit plus multichannel options?

16 minutes ago, Nada said:

Which Topping DAC model?

 

Maybe give the Dave a good 48hours fed pink noise at 100% playing  into a lower impedance dummy load?

Im sure they are all great but Im prejudiced against delta-stigmas modulation after consistent disappointment. Any 16bit plus multichannel options?

I had a DXS7 for experimentation and then sold it. Perhaps someone fed the heater element on the valves the wrong voltage... oh wait.

 

The DXS7 still had no glare by comparison but was a bit dry sounding compared to the Dave, and lacked the volume and punch in the sound and stage volume and solidity, but at 1/20th the price it was worth its weight in gold. Now that the Dave is warming up, my comparison is no longer fair, but it and even more so the D50 are showing how far cheap digital has come. However, I still prefer my existing DAC (to the Dave) at 1/4 the price. Maybe by tomorrow after it's been on for 24 hours it will surpass it, but 4x the price? I never turn my existing DAC off so I'd be using this the same way. I'm returning it tomorrow after another listening session. I'm actually doing this experiment because I'm waiting for the new MSBtechnology Discrete DAC to hit our shores so I can audition it and compare DACs in this price range.

If your after a great two channel DAC via SPDIF you might like a classic superb DAC like the Mark Levinson 360S or a vintage Wadia , which can be had occasionally second hand. Although getting  old they tend to be very reliable and the sound at that level is hard to improve on.  The MSB Analogue went close and looked very fine in black. I think the Discrete is the new version. If it has the same signature its a fine sound but pity about the styling. The Analogue was machined out of solid aluminium and took many days to warm up both to touch and in its sound signature.  So you might need to incubate the Discrete DAC   I wouldn't be surprised if you find it hard to justify a new DAC over your current set up.

11 minutes ago, Nada said:

I wouldn't be surprised if you find it hard to justify a new DAC over your current set up.

I think this summarises it. The DspeakerX4 is a brilliant DAC/DSP combo.

Oh and after 8 hours it sounded the same as it did at 4 hours so I think it peaked. There is still some residual glare over and above the X4. Since I borrowed this from Carlton Audio Visual, I might try their PS Audio directstream DAC next, which although it's cheaper than the Dave, it also has some curious technology behind it and is available at CAV.

Took the Dave back this morning. It had been on (playing a signal) for almost the last 24 hours. It did not sound noticeably better than after that first 4 hours of warm up. I still didn't like it, and the residual glare did not go away. Disappointing.