Denon Dbp-4010-ud Universal Player

[dantan]

How does the player compare to a dedicated SACD in $2000 - $3000 price bracket ? I like to try SACD for my two channel set up but I was slightly disappointed with RBCD performance of the Sony 5000ES.

As an all-rounder, based on its RRP, the Sony BDP-S5000ES is a very good Player. It is sensational for Blu-ray Discs and upscaled SD DVD's well to full 1080p. However, for RedBook CD play-back, it probably is no better than a Marantz CD6002 (I used to own one; RRP was $800.00).

[Jliang70]

As an all-rounder, based on its RRP, the Sony BDP-S5000ES is a very good Player. It is sensational for Blu-ray Discs and upscaled SD DVD's well to full 1080p. However, for RedBook CD play-back, it probably is no better than a Marantz CD6002 (I used to own one; RRP was $800.00).

I compare Sony 5000ES with my raysonic player and as a two channel source it does not quite delivered the goods, it lacks the detail and dynamic that cd players like raysonic can retrieve out of a CD. However it delivers a beautiful picture with BR disc. I might just hold on to my Sony 5000ES and a dedicated SACD player is probably a prefer option for me at the moment.

[betty boop]

IMO it stood up well against my Marantz player. The sound was different, and depending on your preference, will either please you or not.

I hooked it up via the 2ch analogue outs into the Moon pre. Unfortunately I only had one copy of each disc we tried (both RBCD and SACD), so we couldn't do the straight swap. Both the Marantz and Denon were connected via single ended to give them a similar playing field.

thanks spearmint, sounds like it stood up well vs the lovely marantz sa11s2 you have. I'll try out myself when get a chance to hook up over analog.

As an all-rounder, based on its RRP, the Sony BDP-S5000ES is a very good Player. It is sensational for Blu-ray Discs and upscaled SD DVD's well to full 1080p. However, for RedBook CD play-back, it probably is no better than a Marantz CD6002 (I used to own one; RRP was $800.00).

sounds pretty consistent with what I found and mannah I see reporting along same line in the separate thread there. definitely decent over analog the sony and why have hung onto it for my bedroom system where good analog performance is needed.

PS for anyone considering the 4010, bladernr has posted a heads up re audio trends having it on special at $2799 whch is a pretty damn good price !

[Azz123]

PS for anyone considering the 4010, bladernr has posted a heads up re audio trends having it on special at $2799 whch is a pretty damn good price !

That's not pretty damn good, that's bloody good!!

[bbar]

That's not pretty damn good, that's bloody good!!

Hmm, still waiting for mine as Singapore seems to be out of stock.

Will know Friday when Denon are getting more in the country.

The wait is painful!

[cheesehead]

thanks spearmint, sounds like it stood up well vs the lovely marantz sa11s2 you have. I'll try out myself when get a chance to hook up over analog.

sounds pretty consistent with what I found and mannah I see reporting along same line in the separate thread there. definitely decent over analog the sony and why have hung onto it for my bedroom system where good analog performance is needed.

PS for anyone considering the 4010, bladernr has posted a heads up re audio trends having it on special at $2799 whch is a pretty damn good price !

Hi all, not a bad read on the 4010!

I've been contemplating a purchase of a universal player and I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience or what your general impressions would be if you compared a 4010 with a Nuforce version of the BDP83 -SE? Here's a link for info: http://www.nuforce.com/hi/products/oppo_bd...e/bdp83-faq.php

The Nuforce is not available in Sydney at the moment but should be around in about a month for $2,200 or so. The Denon starts to look pretty good at the special price..

Edited March 5, 2010 by Cheesehead_001

[petetherock]

Hi all, not a bad read on the 4010!

I've been contemplating a purchase of a universal player and I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience or what your general impressions would be if you compared a 4010 with a Nuforce version of the BDP83 -SE? Here's a link for info: http://www.nuforce.com/hi/products/oppo_bd...e/bdp83-faq.php

The Nuforce is not available in Sydney at the moment but should be around in about a month for $2,200 or so. The Denon starts to look pretty good at the special price..

The closest I can offer is a SE vs 4010 - see my thread in the reviews section. Cheers.

[cheesehead]

The closest I can offer is a SE vs 4010 - see my thread in the reviews section. Cheers.

Cheers Pete, seems like there's not much around on the Nuforce.

You never know I might have to remedy that sometime soon

[Craigandkim]

This seems fairly average for a player of this standing, especially if you're unable to use denon link and want a one cable solution;

"The DBP-4010UDCI only outputs 44.1 kHz PCM signals when transmitting SACD over HDMI"

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-p...93.html?start=3

Anyone know why?

[betty boop]

This seems fairly average for a player of this standing, especially if you're unable to use denon link and want a one cable solution;

"The DBP-4010UDCI only outputs 44.1 kHz PCM signals when transmitting SACD over HDMI"

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-p...93.html?start=3

Anyone know why?

hehe its a denon thing craig they want you to either use denon link or analog. given the quality of dacs and analog stage and positive report from spearmint from instance vs his marantz sa11s2 I would say it would do pretty nicely over analog for cd/sacd. though vs your DV60 I would think something like the dvd-a1 is probably more comparable

by the way the marantz players which are based on their denon cousins I beleive are similar in the downrez over hdmi. presumably there they want you to go over analog for cd/sacd as well !

ps by the way I noticed with marine 2 on this player probably the best disc resume. marine 2 is a java disc and basically you can take it out the player, play something else, put it back in the player and unbeleivably it will ask if you want to resume where left. never noticed this on any other java disc or any blu-ray disc before !

ps I have also found a disc that wont play on the 4010, new town killers, its a rental so not sure if related but have reported it to audio products who have taken my player details(serial no, date and place of purchase etc) to pass onto denon japan, been pretty pleased wiht the promptness and level of support there so far

[cwt]

This seems fairly average for a player of this standing, especially if you're unable to use denon link and want a one cable solution;

"The DBP-4010UDCI only outputs 44.1 kHz PCM signals when transmitting SACD over HDMI"

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-p...93.html?start=3

Anyone know why?

Just speculation but dlink 3/4 has pqls locking to reduce/eliminate jitter and the hdmi conversion of dsd to pcm [ apart from the cost to do this really well] is subject to higher jitter [ hdmi is not the best jitterwise ] . It would be very complicated and expensive to extend the re clocking hdmi 1.3a gives [through arc ;audio rate control] to bluray over dl4 to another inputs legacy sacd source .

And denon want you to buy only denon presumably

Edited March 14, 2010 by cwt

[cwt]

Cheers Pete, seems like there's not much around on the Nuforce.

You never know I might have to remedy that sometime soon

Heres a foreign review Cheesehead no comparison with the 4010 unfortunately..

http://www.hdtv.com.hr/2010/02/05/review-b...force-bdp-83se/

Edited March 14, 2010 by cwt

[Craigandkim]

Just speculation but dlink 3/4 has pqls locking to reduce/eliminate jitter and the hdmi conversion of dsd to pcm [ apart from the cost to do this really well] is subject to higher jitter [ hdmi is not the best jitterwise ] . It would be very complicated and expensive to extend the re clocking hdmi 1.3a gives [through arc ;audio rate control] to bluray over dl4 to another inputs legacy sacd source .

And denon want you to buy only denon presumably

Not sure why you would need or even want to convert DSD to PCM through HDMI when it can be transmitted natively from HDMI spec 1.2.

If a specification is implemented in a device then all the features attributed to that specification should be available- otherwise its a mute selling point and the consumer is being denied functionality.

Probably right about about denon + denon.

Regards

[Cody]

Not sure why you would need or even want to convert DSD to PCM through HDMI when it can be transmitted natively from HDMI spec 1.2.

If a specification is implemented in a device then all the features attributed to that specification should be available- otherwise its a mute selling point and the consumer is being denied functionality.

Probably right about about denon + denon.

Regards

one reason is that you cant apply post processing to DSD, only to PCM. many would argue that the benefits of well calibrated room correction (Audyssey for example) outweigh any "loss" there may be in sound quality by converting DSD to PCM.

with hdmi, if you ever read the specification you'll see loads of features available for manufacturers to implement if they wish. its probably not economical or even needed to implement many of them, so its up to them to decide which are important etc.

there are only a handful of players that will send DSD over hdmi, so if thats important it certainly narrows ones choices down to a short list!

[cwt]

Not sure why you would need or even want to convert DSD to PCM through HDMI when it can be transmitted natively from HDMI spec 1.2.

If a specification is implemented in a device then all the features attributed to that specification should be available- otherwise its a mute selling point and the consumer is being denied functionality.

Probably right about about denon + denon.

I was taken aback too when I read this lack at avs forum Apart from all the things D has listed that you need pcm for ; a lot of dacs cant take a direct dsd stream ;they only handle pcm For example my burr brown 1796 dacs may well have been specified without dsd capability ; thankfully they werent; from the order sheet -

Accepts 16-, 20-, and 24-Bit Audio Data

PCM Data Formats: Standard, I²S, and Left-Justified

DSD Format Interface Available

[Craigandkim]

Starting to get off topic here but:

Being somewhat of a purist I prefer the least amount of conversion, processing and the shortest uninterrupted signal path to the amp (possibly a good reason for active speakers??). So, in my case, I feel confident that the particular chip in the source component is converting the native data to an analogue signal using the best possible method, IE no prior conversion to pcm if dsd etc. That is the source converting, sending analogue signal to pre and straight onto amp- no other DAC, conversion etc. I know I prefer the sound coming out the way I'm currently set-up.

Regarding Audyssey (and the like) how many users actually measure their room responses with an understanding of what is required of the eq process? Or is the use of Audyssey (and the like) mostly an auto function that is applied because its a quick and easy fix?

I know many people believe Audyssey to be the duck's guts for eliminating and/or boosting all and sundry when it comes to modal responses- are they relying too heavily upon digital manipulation? I believe that over use of active processing can have detrimental consequences affecting the end goal. No derogatory intentions implied- this is one aspect I'll have to research to gain a better understanding of what it is actually doing to the raw signal and its effect upon the amplification of that signal.

Concerning jitter- what effect does jitter actually have upon whats coming down the pipe and is it audible? Is there undisputed data to confirm the best conversion method of digital information to analogue and what is the best delivery method (convert at source?, convert externally? etc).

Sometimes I think I need to forget about the technical aspects, facts and figures and let the equipment do what it does best. Does anyone else get to this stage with their audio fascination?

Sorry about the length and content in this thread,

Regards

[dantan]

Hi craigandkim,

I am sure that you are not the only one that thinks this way.

I like as little digital manipulation as possible. I am not that big a fan of using automated EQ'ing, even though Audyssey's various systems are no doubt excellent.

Ultimately, it is a matter of trying things out, and whichever way ends up sounding best to me is what I go with.

Dan.

[Spearmint]

Hello CraigandKim,

All good and IMO valid points of view. However at the end of the day, and again this is my opinion, isn't this hobby about enjoyment? And if we feel the need to add a touch of sweetener, then it can't be all bad, can it? Lets face it we do this with food, drink, air fresheners, etc, etc, and yet with regards audio many strive to obtain what...some perception that what they're hearing is what the studio wanted them to hear?

I agree measuring is fine provided you are going to do something to improve any anomalies, otherwise all you end up doing is fretting about the results.

Starting to get off topic here but:

Being somewhat of a purist I prefer the least amount of conversion, processing and the shortest uninterrupted signal path to the amp (possibly a good reason for active speakers??). So, in my case, I feel confident that the particular chip in the source component is converting the native data to an analogue signal using the best possible method, IE no prior conversion to pcm if dsd etc. That is the source converting, sending analogue signal to pre and straight onto amp- no other DAC, conversion etc. I know I prefer the sound coming out the way I'm currently set-up.

Regarding Audyssey (and the like) how many users actually measure their room responses with an understanding of what is required of the eq process? Or is the use of Audyssey (and the like) mostly an auto function that is applied because its a quick and easy fix?

I know many people believe Audyssey to be the duck's guts for eliminating and/or boosting all and sundry when it comes to modal responses- are they relying too heavily upon digital manipulation? I believe that over use of active processing can have detrimental consequences affecting the end goal. No derogatory intentions implied- this is one aspect I'll have to research to gain a better understanding of what it is actually doing to the raw signal and its effect upon the amplification of that signal.

Concerning jitter- what effect does jitter actually have upon whats coming down the pipe and is it audible? Is there undisputed data to confirm the best conversion method of digital information to analogue and what is the best delivery method (convert at source?, convert externally? etc).

Sometimes I think I need to forget about the technical aspects, facts and figures and let the equipment do what it does best. Does anyone else get to this stage with their audio fascination?

Sorry about the length and content in this thread,

Regards

[betty boop]

review here on secrets for the 4010

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-p...ray-player.html

goes on for about 6 pages but in some way a little shallow for a review I think.

anyways good testing of it, and the closing statement in the conclusion is pretty high accolade

These features together with excellent analog and multi-channel audio performance and excellent video performance earn the Denon DBP-4010UDCI the title of reference universal Blu-ray player

[betty boop]

taking a few problem discs in and my 4010 into my local denon retailer, will check the discs in the retailers 4010 as well, will know one way or the other if a problem with the discs or the player. must say denon support have been pretty good so far. have said if its a problem with any discs they will have an update out promptly to fix. hopefully not a problem wiht my player !

[Craigandkim]

taking a few problem discs in and my 4010 into my local denon retailer, will check the discs in the retailers 4010 as well, will know one way or the other if a problem with the discs or the player. must say denon support have been pretty good so far. have said if its a problem with any discs they will have an update out promptly to fix. hopefully not a problem wiht my player !

Which disc's?

Mate had problems with a samsung player and Quantum of Solace - would not play until after a 30min upgrade to firmware.

This kind of thing annoys the crap outta me....blu-ray disc/blu-ray player - disc should play... end of story

Goodluck

[betty boop]

Which disc's?

Mate had problems with a samsung player and Quantum of Solace - would not play until after a 30min upgrade to firmware.

This kind of thing annoys the crap outta me....blu-ray disc/blu-ray player - disc should play... end of story

Goodluck

I had a rental that froze up, which I put down to being a rental then a few odd ball titles butterfly effect 2, buttefly on the wheel, newtown killers that wouldnt play in the last week but then started to have the odd disc I've played before come with 'no disc' which is why suspecting something up wiht the player. have never had one issue on the player with discs prior so definitely think something is up !

we are generally lucky in aus I have found with my previous pio and sony players where by the time discs get released here the makers tend to have updates to be one step ahead. !

I'm with you though blu-rays and plaeyrs the discs should just play !

[Spearmint]

taking a few problem discs in and my 4010 into my local denon retailer, will check the discs in the retailers 4010 as well, will know one way or the other if a problem with the discs or the player. must say denon support have been pretty good so far. have said if its a problem with any discs they will have an update out promptly to fix. hopefully not a problem wiht my player !

Hi Al,

I'm sorry to read about a few issues you're experiencing. You're most welcome to try a couple of these problematic discs on my machine if it helps.

[betty boop]

Hi Al,

I'm sorry to read about a few issues you're experiencing. You're most welcome to try a couple of these problematic discs on my machine if it helps.

thats very nice of you spearmint ! much appreciate the offer, hopefully find out one way or the other tommorow

[betty boop]

Popped in the store today with the player and discs. and lo and behold every disc played on their 4010 in the store. We then plugged my player in and one of the discs out of the lot did play but all the others came up as "no disc". one of the discs the player actually ejected :eek: so definitely something up wiht my player. So off it goes for a trip to sydney to the denon tech. we included a couple of the butterfly discs in there for him to check out as well. hopefully its a quick fix !