Audyssey Mutieq Set-up

[POV]

Hi all,

After discussiion in some other threads regarding the accuracy/quality of audyssey set-up i spent most of yesterday reading this AVS thread from the FAQ:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895

What i realised was that the reason that i was a tad underwhemed by the auto set-up process was that i was doing a number of things wrong, and not getting anywhere near the most out if it. I was 'critical ' of it's sub level setting but now realise that i haad the gain on the sub too high and this was the problem here. I also realised that i was perhaps expecting a result that audyssey was never designed to deliver. So to begin with sorry to anyone who a i misled, with poor info in my posts. I have now learned that if you get some good silence, take your time and follow the instructions on the AVS thread carefuuly then you get a near perfectly balanced surround mix, I got up at 5:00 am this morning when all was pretty quiet and before traffic started and did two set-up runs with some tweaking in between. I've just finished watching We were Soldiers DTS MA and was the most enjoyable surround sound experience that i've yet had with my equipment. Checking the levels, with an SPL shows them all to be within <1dB of each other and although this appears to be slightly below the 75 SPL mark I now know from Chris's posts on AVS that the audyssey mic is almost certainly more accurate than my SPL measurements if used properlly. It is a great shame that AVR owners manuals don't provide the info that is on that thread.

So i now realise what the supporters of this set-up were talking about, and am completely converted. If anyone that has an audyssey equiped AVR has not read the info in that thread then can't recomend it highly enough. So that's my 'back-pedal, and once again sorry for any misleading posts, as clearly they came from a place of ignorance. Still live and learn and all that!!!

Cheers,

Drew

[betty boop]

hey drew, glad to see you got there. its well worth the effort. for me too I found if follow the procedure as outlined in offcial audyssey thread there then it is repeatable time and time and produces an excellent result. great to hear your enjoying the fruits as well.

ps in regards reference level, a good thread on that linked in our faq here . and as per chris of audyssey there is nothing at all wrong in lifting or lowering by the same amount all levels to acheive whatever reference level you want to achieve be it 75db or 85db. or you can jsut leave it as it is if you like. no harm either way

chris from audyssey who as you have found in the official audyssey over on avs is absolutely dedicated to answering what ever question anyone might have. some good links in our faq aswell whcih are well worth reading for audyssey setup. so plenty to help hopefully for anyone who might have any questions no matter what they are

[Wavetrain]

Hi all,

After discussiion in some other threads regarding the accuracy/quality of audyssey set-up i spent most of yesterday reading this AVS thread from the FAQ:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895

What i realised was that the reason that i was a tad underwhemed by the auto set-up process was that i was doing a number of things wrong, and not getting anywhere near the most out if it. I was 'critical ' of it's sub level setting but now realise that i haad the gain on the sub too high and this was the problem here. I also realised that i was perhaps expecting a result that audyssey was never designed to deliver. So to begin with sorry to anyone who a i misled, with poor info in my posts. I have now learned that if you get some good silence, take your time and follow the instructions on the AVS thread carefuuly then you get a near perfectly balanced surround mix, I got up at 5:00 am this morning when all was pretty quiet and before traffic started and did two set-up runs with some tweaking in between. I've just finished watching We were Soldiers DTS MA and was the most enjoyable surround sound experience that i've yet had with my equipment. Checking the levels, with an SPL shows them all to be within <1dB of each other and although this appears to be slightly below the 75 SPL mark I now know from Chris's posts on AVS that the audyssey mic is almost certainly more accurate than my SPL measurements if used properlly. It is a great shame that AVR owners manuals don't provide the info that is on that thread.

So i now realise what the supporters of this set-up were talking about, and am completely converted. If anyone that has an audyssey equiped AVR has not read the info in that thread then can't recomend it highly enough. So that's my 'back-pedal, and once again sorry for any misleading posts, as clearly they came from a place of ignorance. Still live and learn and all that!!!

Cheers,

Drew

Thanks, for posting Drew.

Audyssey has gotten a bad wrap by people not setting up the system correctly and blaming the product. I have never seen any instance where the Audyssey did not noticably imporve the system. I did have one person tell me the Audyssey was broken, but when I went through the setup with them they were staggered at the improvement. It doesn't matter how good the equipment is, anything can be made to sound terrible if badly set up.

Hopefully people will read this thread and reconsider using the product they have paid for.

Regards,

David

[myrantz]

I got up at 5:00 am this morning when all was pretty quiet and before traffic started and did two set-up runs with some tweaking in between.

LOL.. I thought I was the only one.. Did you use an alarm clock? Did you sneak out? Seriously not the most pleasant noise at night/early morning...

Edit: Remember that Audyssey does more than balancing the volume of the speakers though..

Edited February 15, 2009 by treblid

[mcb]

The experience posted above by Roxy is consistent with my experience.

I think the key issue is taking the time to understand what Audyssey is doing and to make sure that it is set up properly. I.E. take the time to read the set-up guide that Roxy linked to and follow it carefully.

I consider the upgrade of the Denon 3808 to turn on the advanced features to be the best bang for buck upgrade that I have done.

[POV]

Thanks, for posting Drew.

Audyssey has gotten a bad wrap by people not setting up the system correctly and blaming the product. I have never seen any instance where the Audyssey did not noticably imporve the system. I did have one person tell me the Audyssey was broken, but when I went through the setup with them they were staggered at the improvement. It doesn't matter how good the equipment is, anything can be made to sound terrible if badly set up.

Hopefully people will read this thread and reconsider using the product they have paid for.

Regards,

David

It's interesting how many people (including myself) initially think that Audyssey is 'just' an automatic speaker set-up. This is perhaps not helped by electronics manufacturers marketing it as such. It's not until you delve into a bit of research that you realis how powerful this software is. It has truly made a significant improvement to my system. I've no doubt that this (if done carefully) is better than manual set-up with an SPL.

Cheers,

Drew

[POV]

Just reading through this thread highlighted something to me:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=66655

The term 'crossover' is used a number of times, and refering to different things, or so it seems. I get the impression that some of the posters believe that by raising 'crossover' freq of their main speakers in their AVR/PRE say from 40 hz to 80hz for eg then there will be more bass information going to the sub. My understanding was that the LFE LPF(low pass freq) sets the low bass signal being passed to the sub, and all raising the mains 'crossover freq does is reduce the amount of bass going to these spakers. In this way it is simply an adjustable high pass filter. Or am i off track with what people are refering to with statements like "lift the crossover freq to 80hz and let the sub do more work" Isn't the effect here that the sub is still doing the same but the main speakers are not going as low.

Cheers,

Drew

[Wavetrain]

Just reading through this thread highlighted something to me:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=66655

The term 'crossover' is used a number of times, and refering to different things, or so it seems. I get the impression that some of the posters believe that by raising 'crossover' freq of their main speakers in their AVR/PRE say from 40 hz to 80hz for eg then there will be more bass information going to the sub. My understanding was that the LFE LPF(low pass freq) sets the low bass signal being passed to the sub, and all raising the mains 'crossover freq does is reduce the amount of bass going to these spakers. In this way it is simply an adjustable high pass filter. Or am i off track with what people are refering to with statements like "lift the crossover freq to 80hz and let the sub do more work" Isn't the effect here that the sub is still doing the same but the main speakers are not going as low.

Cheers,

Drew

No. If you set the speakers at 80hz, then the information below this freq is being passed to the subwoofer output. Hence the sub is doing more work. It can also lighten the load on the AVR which may be struggling to produce enough SPL without distortion.

Regards,

David

[POV]

No. If you set the speakers at 80hz, then the information below this freq is being passed to the subwoofer output. Hence the sub is doing more work. It can also lighten the load on the AVR which may be struggling to produce enough SPL without distortion.

Regards,

David

What then is the purpose of the LFE LPF??? and why does it matter where it is set.

Drew

[cwt]

What then is the purpose of the LFE LPF??? and why does it matter where it is set.

Drew

You have to completely divorce the lfe low pass from the L/R speaker crossover roxy . The lfe low pass is for the .1 channel only and the L/R crossover redirects bass from the mains to the lfe . So the sub gets the lfe + redirected bass from all the other speakers depending on where their hi pass crossover is set . Thats my take on it at least.

A few pre pro's like the cary 11a are even better in my eyes as they cascade the lower frequencies down the chain so that every speaker gets what it can handle ;shameless plug

[POV]

You have to completely divorce the lfe low pass from the L/R speaker crossover roxy . The lfe low pass is for the .1 channel only and the L/R crossover redirects bass from the mains to the lfe . So the sub gets the lfe + redirected bass from all the other speakers depending on where their hi pass crossover is set . Thats my take on it at least.

A few pre pro's like the cary 11a are even better in my eyes as they cascade the lower frequencies down the chain so that every speaker gets what it can handle ;shameless plug

Yeah just been having a read about this issue over on AVS and it would appear that there has been some considerable confusion about it. Interestingly according to some of the guys on AVS the guys at Audyssey tried to convince Onkyo to remove this setting from the AVRs.......however onkyo refused. Integras line is that the variable setting is there to give the ability to remove hum that may be present with it at 120 hz. Chris says that the reason that they always recomend having the LFE LPF set at 120 hz is because this is the standard that dolby and DTS use, and that soundtracks are 'brickwalled' with the LFE rolled off at 120HZ. Also it is only when you have your mains set as large and LFE set to 'both' or 'double bass' or whatever each manufacturer calls this function that this could potentially be in play, and this would depend on thecrossover point that you have set for your mains as well of course.

Cheers,

Drew

[djOS]

Hi all,

After discussiion in some other threads regarding the accuracy/quality of audyssey set-up i spent most of yesterday reading this AVS thread from the FAQ:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895

What i realised was that the reason that i was a tad underwhemed by the auto set-up process was that i was doing a number of things wrong, and not getting anywhere near the most out if it.

**SNIP**

I've posted the link to the Audyssey Guide a few times when discussing Audyssey and you are absolutely spot on, the CEM's for some unknown reason botch their auto-speaker setup which prevents the audyssey proccesing from giving us it what it promises.

The difference after running the auto-setup using that guide and making the recomended changes afterwards truly is night and day!

[Wavetrain]

What then is the purpose of the LFE LPF??? and why does it matter where it is set.

Drew

The LFE is a specific channel recorded for the subwoofer and has nothing to do with the other speakers. Typically this will be bass information up to 150Hz. This has nothing to do with the speakers.

What you are talking about is at what freq does the speaker information crossover to the subwoofer. If you had the speaker set to large, then there would be no additional information sent.

The problem is that if you place speakers for best imaging, then they are often in bad positions for bass response. By sending the bass information to the sub/s then these can be placed in the best position for bass response. There are other considerations as mentioned above.

Regards,

David

[cwt]

Also it is only when you have your mains set as large and LFE set to 'both' or 'double bass' or whatever each manufacturer calls this function that this could potentially be in play, and this would depend on thecrossover point that you have set for your mains as well of course.

Cheers,

Drew

This is a variation of what you can do with the cary Drew ; the lfe crossover has buckets of options and can be set higher than the mains L/R to give double bass . Ive never tried it for the reasons David says

[mquin1503560492]

No. If you set the speakers at 80hz, then the information below this freq is being passed to the subwoofer output. Hence the sub is doing more work. It can also lighten the load on the AVR which may be struggling to produce enough SPL without distortion.

Regards,

David

So if my front L&R are set to large/full my subwoofer would never do anything ??? doesn't seem right.

[mquin1503560492]

The LFE is a specific channel recorded for the subwoofer and has nothing to do with the other speakers. Typically this will be bass information up to 150Hz. This has nothing to do with the speakers.

What you are talking about is at what freq does the speaker information crossover to the subwoofer. If you had the speaker set to large, then there would be no additional information sent.

The problem is that if you place speakers for best imaging, then they are often in bad positions for bass response. By sending the bass information to the sub/s then these can be placed in the best position for bass response. There are other considerations as mentioned above.

Regards,

David

This makes (slightly) more sense to me.

So if I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to large/full) then my subwoofer does the .1 (right?)

If I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to 80Hz) then my subwoofer does the .1 plus anything below 80Hz that was supposed to be sent to the fronts(right?)

If I am listenning to some other 2.0 mode (such as watching TV using Dolby Movie) which is turned into multi-channel by my AVR then what does the subwoofer do if my front L&R are set to large ? Nothing ?

Edited February 16, 2009 by mquin

[mquin1503560492]

BTW .... cool thread. I have always been underwhelmed by Audessey (I have an Onkyo 805) but I now feel that I have the subwoofer set wrong. My AVR says that it is adjusting the subwoofer -13.5dB which seems to be a huge amount. My subwoofer is a Krix Seismix 3 and I use a strange button on the back called "Gain - hi" to boost the subwoofer output.

I think that having that button set to on is making the AVR undercompensate by underdriving the subwoofer which stuffs everthing up.

Will try to do Audessy again with the button off and adjust the subwoofer volume until I can get it within 3bB of 0dB.

Edited February 16, 2009 by mquin

[Cooksta59]

This makes (slightly) more sense to me.

So if I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to large/full) then my subwoofer does the .1 (right?)

If I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to 80Hz) then my subwoofer does the .1 plus anything below 80Hz that was supposed to be sent to the fronts(right?)

If I am listenning to some other 2.0 mode (such as watching TV using Dolby Movie) which is turned into multi-channel by my AVR then what does the subwoofer do if my front L&R are set to large ? Nothing ?

My understanding is that the low frequencies below 80Hz (if that is your avr's crossover setting) of all speakers set to small are sent to the subwoofer, not just the fronts.

[hakka69]

This makes (slightly) more sense to me.

1 So if I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to large/full) then my subwoofer does the .1 (right?)

2 If I am listening to DD5.1 (and my front L&R are set to 80Hz) then my subwoofer does the .1 plus anything below 80Hz that was supposed to be sent to the fronts(right?)

3 If I am listenning to some other 2.0 mode (such as watching TV using Dolby Movie) which is turned into multi-channel by my AVR then what does the subwoofer do if my front L&R are set to large ? Nothing ?

1 Yes

2 Yes

3 Yes

In 99% of cases you should set your speakers to small with an 80hz crossover point.

Very few speakers can reach to 20hz, if your speakers only go down to 40hz, you're throwing away everything under 40hz in the 5 full range channels by setting speakers to large.

Speakers and the AVR will sound better when they are not trying to reproduce low frequency bass.

The speaker position that gives the best image will not give the best bass response, setting to small and using the sub will let you optimize the position of each.

Out of curiosity, what crossover does the auto setup on the AVR give you for the fronts?

Hakka.

[hakka69]

My understanding is that the low frequencies below 80Hz (if that is your avr's crossover setting) of all speakers set to small are sent to the subwoofer, not just the fronts.

That is correct.

Hakka.

[mquin1503560492]

Out of curiosity, what crossover does the auto setup on the AVR give you for the fronts?

Hakka.

Audessy sets all of my speakers to FULL, however I had already (manually) adjusted them to 80Hz

Edited February 16, 2009 by mquin

[myrantz]

That is correct.

Hakka.

Grrr.. Either I'm too slow or you type too fast..

[hakka69]

Grrr.. Either I'm too slow or you type too fast..

Normally I post via my phone SMS style and by the time I'm finished someone's beat me to it. I've got the laptop out tonight going as fast as I can.

[hakka69]

Audessy sets all of my speakers to FULL

I've seen it do that with a few setups, it sets mine to 40hz. I think its standard practise to raise the crossover to 80hz, I don't know if its mentioned in that guide posted on the first page but it has been discussed a bit in the AVS thread by Chris from Audyssey.

Hakka.

[SimonNo10]

Audessy sets all of my speakers to FULL

My Onkyo 805 also does this after the calibration. After every calibration I just go into the setup put all speakers to 80hz (Currently using M&K S-5000 as mains) and set subwoofer to 80hz as well and ajust voulme levels with SPL meter (analogue) to 75db at reference being 0 on the AVR. Borrowed a tripod from a mate at work today so will re-do Audyssey sometime this week using the guide that was post on the AVS thread.

I'm currently using an Aaron HCC-600 as centre link:

http://www.aaronhifi.com.au/product.php?prod_id=46

What are peoples thoughts on the crossover for this speaker? The rest of my 7.1 system are all M&K speakers with the rears being di-pole. Sometimes Audyssey sets it to 60hz and sets it to Full.

Also with others running projector setups I do have a question. I'm finding that after many calibrations while watching a movie my attention keeps being drawn to the centre speaker and not the 100" screen. I guess the perfect scenario is that you dont know where the sound is coming from and it should appear to be coming from the screen. Any tips on how to improve that?