betty boop Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 @@powerav Setup like that - and can only see the briefest view of it in the pic,Am not sure why wouldn't leave side and rear surrounds where they are and just put in 4 in ceilings for 7.1.4 ?If anything all I'd do otherwise is move side surrounds further forward just a tad ... As they can be 90-110 degree from the sides and if there already - leave them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 @@powerav Am not sure why wouldn't leave side and rear surrounds where they are and just put in 4 in ceilings for 7.1.4 ? Cost! as I will need a new AVR as well. I will have about $4000 to spend and that don't get you much. My plan is Marantz 6010 and a 3 channel Poweramp for fronts, will need the Rotel 1552 for heights. Or option 2 could be Marantz 7010 but then I can't get Power amp. In ceiling speakers aint cheap either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGeek Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Powerav, would 7.1.2 be a better option for you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Understand, however I would still strongly suggest keeping your 7.1 setup as is. Add only 2 height channels initially if cost limited. However put these in as front in ceiling heights. Rather than In between front row and rear. The front heights are more impactful. And both front and rear row will benefit. Can always add rear in ceiling height if when budget permits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Powerav, would 7.1.2 be a better option for you? Do in 7.1.2 which still leaves option to expand to 7.1.4 later. There is also I feel no need to compromise the existing setup to do this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Cost! as I will need a new AVR as well. I will have about $4000 to spend and that don't get you much. My plan is Marantz 6010 and a 3 channel Poweramp for fronts, will need the Rotel 1552 for heights. Or option 2 could be Marantz 7010 but then I can't get Power amp. In ceiling speakers aint cheap either. Cheaper in the long run to wait and do it properly once rather than jump in half baked now when funds are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Cheaper in the long run to wait and do it properly once rather than jump in half baked now when funds are cheap. Been waiting for 20 years! you need over $10,000 to do it right. Wont see that much until someone crooks it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Door in 7.1.2 which still leaves option to expand to 7.1.4 later. There is also I feel no need to compromise the existing setup to do this Ok, I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 It's a crazy hobby, as most will know I was chasing a 2 channel set up with an pre or integrated with HT bypass. I was about to get a Parasound Integrated but then I heard Dolby Atmos on my modest second system and thought WOW wouldn't that be good in the main room. Now it's like starting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 While it's nice to have it all most tend to build as you go one step at time. Myself 3D audio was about 2years in the making. One year of research demoing working out what's possible. And about a year of still doing more of that while slowly bought one or two things at a time.... Don't have to rush these things ... They can take time as budget and other things afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Ok advice taken. I think i'll get the Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3 (can be slowly upgraded with modules to 7 channels) and a Marantz 6010 with existing rotel powering the height speakers. This way I can slowly upgrade amp 1 or 2 module at a time and then get a Processor hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 another option is the local elektra theatre HD which can also be bought in base form and modules added upto 7. I believe it will be cheaper over all plus a top quality product using the very best of components and built to last and top class local support ! alternatively if not buying new a 2nd hand elektra 7ch will likely be cheaper in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Kazz Posted July 26, 2016 Volunteer Share Posted July 26, 2016 Door in 7.1.2 which still leaves option to expand to 7.1.4 later. There is also I feel no need to compromise the existing setup to do this I'm running 7.2.2 and will most likely go 7.2.4 in the next 6 months or so, so I'd agree with Al about starting with 7.1.2. Also Atmos has a 7.1 base to it's audio so 7.1 is the better option to add height speakers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 another option is the local elektra theatre HD which can also be bought in base form and modules added upto 7. I believe it will be cheaper over all plus a top quality product using the very best of components and built to last and top class local support ! alternatively if not buying new a 2nd hand elektra 7ch will likely be cheaper in the first place I didn't know that shall look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illusion Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Understand, however I would still strongly suggest keeping your 7.1 setup as is. Add only 2 height channels initially if cost limited. However put these in as front in ceiling heights. Rather than In between front row and rear. The front heights are more impactful. And both front and rear row will benefit. Can always add rear in ceiling height if when budget permits Al great advice as usual on your part. This is exactly what I have done last week. Moved my Jamo bipole speakers to be front height, about a meter closer and 2 meters above than the SF floorstanders, then fitted a pair of cabasse ceiling speakers with the swiveling drivers, which I'm experimenting with firstly pointed back to the wall, next week I will try the drivers pointed towards the seats. Bought 3 movies from JB, The Martian & Mad Max both 7.1 and a 3D of IRobot which has a terrific 5.1 sound, which really wowed me. Edited July 26, 2016 by illusion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 @@powerav Setup like that - and can only see the briefest view of it in the pic, Am not sure why wouldn't leave side and rear surrounds where they are and just put in 4 in ceilings for 7.1.4 ? If anything all I'd do otherwise is move side surrounds further forward just a tad ... As they can be 90-110 degree from the sides and if there already - leave them ! That's exactly what I am doing, keeping my 7.1 intact and just installing 4 ceiling speakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) Well, after completing the installation of the ceiling speakers, I watched my first ever Dolby Atmos movie, Mad Max Furry Road, on my 7.1.4 setup. Was I impressed, meh! not really. Oh yeah it was good but delivered less than my expectations, may be my expectations were too high. I was expecting more discrete/defined sounds from the ceiling speakers, may be it is the movie's sound track!? Is there any movie that you guys recommend to appreciate Dolby Atmos better? I did a comparison with the ceiling speakers on & off watching the same scenes from the movie, the difference is not that much between 7.1 setup with virtual presence speakers on and 7.1.4 set-up. Did I waste my money and efforts and time buying another amp, speakers and installing them not to mention that I have not been subject to WAF yet She is away and definitely won't be happy when she sees 4 speakers poking out of the ceiling and finds outs that I forked out $$$$$ on them and on another amp when she comes back Edited August 3, 2016 by ufo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Caesar Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) ...Could be a case of overly high expectations, but questions must be asked... - did you rerun audessey to map out the additional channels ? - was Atmos definitely being delivered via bit stream from your player to your AVR - assuming you checked this of course but just trying to eliminate possibilities. Atmos is not just about the height channels. It's about how sound is steered through your room - object-orientated audio as opposed to basic channel panning as with previous generations. Running your system too loud can actually harm the effect as you lose subtlety in how this is done. Having said that - Mad Max - whilst fun, lacks subtlety Try Crimson Peak with DTS:X if you're into gothic horror. Ninja Turtles has fun with Atmos, as does Jupiter Ascending. Legend with Tom Hardy and The Revenant are examples of quality over quantity when it come to audio mixing for Atmos. Also The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and the BBC Sherlock film from the series of the same name. Betty can probably point you to a more comprehensive list. Edited August 3, 2016 by Lil Caesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 ...Could be a case of overly high expectations, but questions must be asked... - did you rerun audessey to map out the additional channels ? - was Atmos definitely being delivered via bit stream from your player to your AVR - assuming you checked this of course but just trying to eliminate possibilities. Atmos is not just about the height channels. It's about how sound is steered through your room - object-orientated audio as opposed to basic channel panning as with previous generations. Running your system too loud can actually harm the effect as you lose subtlety in how this is done. Having said that - Mad Max - whilst fun, lacks subtlety Try Crimson Peak with DTS:X if you're into gothic horror. Ninja Turtles has fun with Atmos, as does Jupiter Ascending. Legend with Tom Hardy and The Revenant are examples of quality over quantity when it come to audio mixing for Atmos. Also The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and the BBC Sherlock film from the series of the same name. Betty can probably point you to a more comprehensive list. I am running Yammy 5100, so did run YPAO but had to adjust it a bit manually. But ran it in a single location with no angle, when I find the time, will run in multiple locations with angled measurements, see if that makes any difference. Yep, BD is going into Yammy via HDMI, no issues. I understand that Atmos is not just height ceilings but also steering the sound thru the room but my 7.1 setup was doing that quite well too. I thought with Atmos, say when a chopper is flying above in the scene, you would get very discrete chopper sound coming from ceiling speakers and it would move around between the ceiling speakers giving you the impression as if the chopper is really flying above your head in the room. So far did not experience that. Any action movies u can recommend, watched Revenant before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Caesar Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I am running Yammy 5100, so did run YPAO but had to adjust it a bit manually. But ran it in a single location with no angle, when I find the time, will run in multiple locations with angled measurements, see if that makes any difference. Yep, BD is going into Yammy via HDMI, no issues. I understand that Atmos is not just height ceilings but also steering the sound thru the room but my 7.1 setup was doing that quite well too. I thought with Atmos, say when a chopper is flying above in the scene, you would get very discrete chopper sound coming from ceiling speakers and it would move around between the ceiling speakers giving you the impression as if the chopper is really flying above your head in the room. So far did not experience that. Any action movies u can recommend, watched Revenant before. We're still thin on the ground for genuine 3d-audio content BUT all your legacy stuff on bluray sounds great upsampled - particularly all the DTS-MA discs - which is most of them. I can't think of a single film I've re-watched on Bluray since going 3d-audio which has not done a good job of pushing information to the height channels - chopper blades especially Spectre is a great example - the opening sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 We're still thin on the ground for genuine 3d-audio content BUT all your legacy stuff on bluray sounds great upsampled - particularly all the DTS-MA discs - which is most of them. I can't think of a single film I've re-watched on Bluray since going 3d-audio which has not done a good job of pushing information to the height channels - chopper blades especially Spectre is a great example - the opening sequence. TA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 gee.... mad max would be a great show case for 3D audio...and right from get go with all the whispering going on... we do have heaps of native 3D audio... a lot of it on UHD...but I have quite a bit on blu-ray. the thing with 3D audio though is am amazed how good neural x for instance is with even non native stuff ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 gee.... mad max would be a great show case for 3D audio...and right from get go with all the whispering going on... we do have heaps of native 3D audio... a lot of it on UHD...but I have quite a bit on blu-ray. the thing with 3D audio though is am amazed how good neural x for instance is with even non native stuff ! yeah, whispering seems to be coming from generally above but it is not that discrete, it seems to reverberate around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Nope it's discrete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Nope it's discrete I mean in my case. Anyway will have to do more playing/adjusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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