Atmos and 3D audio Adventures

[Lil Caesar]

...What is more important is just where you choose to place those four ceiling speakers.

 

Atmos arrange them around the central viewing/listening position whereas DTS:X locate them around the boundaries of the room,

and Auro-3D directly above your floor-based speaker array.

[Lil Caesar]

...One thing that D&M holdings fail to mention is how the 3D audio codecs can be transcoded between each other with repsect to a single, fixed speaker implementation - that is - you build to suit Atmos, but want to play back Auro-3D and DTS:X

 

I am aware that only the flagship Trinnov Processor (USD$30k) is capable of using DSP to appropriately remap the distinctly different processing of each standard to suit a fixed speaker array, with sophisticated time delay compensation algorithms used in their hardware/software.

 

DTS:X is supposed to be tolerant to these speaker placement variables according to the available press releases but the same cannot be said of Auro-3D.

 

From what I understand Auro-3D is a european firm competing directly against Dolby who have a choke-hold on the market in North America.

 

Based on the little material published online, European commercial cinemas embracing 3D audio have gone with Auro-3D

Edited June 18, 2015 by Lil Caesar

[betty boop]

I am confused. So is it 4 or 5 speakers I need, I am just about to run some in wall cables, just future proofing.

Thanks

 

what processor are you using ? there will be some limitations with that in itself

 

atmos has .2 to .4 systems i.e. with 2 at minimum and upto 4 for atmos height speakers

 

this page of their summarises the setups down the below, you'll note a setup for very large rooms where front wides are used...this is the same as prior to atmos in standard front wide orientation  leading to upto 9 main speakers. so yes 4 at most for atmos

 

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

 

no info on dts-x as yet, 

 

auro 3D mimcs the lower surround speakers with a layer above and a voice of god speaker (VOG) right above the listener as our hearing ability right above us is the poorest so we are looking for upto a 11.1 ! setup but its not something that translates to Dolby atmos that well. 

 

JkSpinner;

 

The 5th centrally located ceiling speaker is an Auro-3D requirement called VOG or "voice of god".

 

As such a placement doesn't feature in either Dolby Atmos or the proposed DTS:X standards, I'd suggest you can probably go without if installation or cost prove prohibitive.

 

yes am still "up in the air" about the whole 5th VOG surround ...whether DTS-X with it being location agnostic can make any use of it is unknown either. 

 

 

...One thing that D&M holdings fail to mention is how the 3D audio codecs can be transcoded between each other with repsect to a single, fixed speaker implementation - that is - you build to suit Atmos, but want to play back Auro-3D and DTS:X

 

I am aware that only the flagship Trinnov Processor (USD$30k) is capable of using DSP to appropriately remap the distinctly different processing of each standard to suit a fixed speaker array, with sophisticated time delay compensation algorithms used in their hardware/software.

 

DTS:X is supposed to be tolerant to these speaker placement variables according to the available press releases but the same cannot be said of Auro-3D.

 

From what I understand Auro-3D is a european firm competing directly against Dolby who have a choke-hold on the market in North America.

 

Based on the little material published online, European commercial cinemas embracing 3D audio have gone with Auro-3D

 

 

Lil C latest news have read is there is an update coming to transcoding  auro 3D encoding to atmos layouts. where this leaves the VOG I am not sure. I like the idea of the VOG speaker given our hearing ability. and with DTS-X what little we know is that it will work with what ever speaker layout you have ...but how that translates to reality is anyones guess at the moment  

 

main reason sitting on hands here  

 

if were doing a setup now ...I think the 4 atmos speakers we are safe with anything else would just leave cable to locations for the moment...cables can pick up later once things are settled on

[joz]

But what will the discs be encoded with?

 

AAah!

[betty boop]

But what will the discs be encoded with?

 

AAah!

 

so far dolby atmos is winning ! but then dts-x isn't out as yet.

 

curiously dts seems to have a strangle hold with dts-hdma on blu-ray, I wonder when dts-X comes along it will be the same,

 

LilC's comment about europrean cinema is an interesting one, I wonder if that means there will be more eu movies with auro 3D. definitely it seems euro centric with anything coming with auro3d being from europe  

[Lil Caesar]

Got the DTS:X upgrade for my 7702mk2 on Friday night

- process indicated 40 mins to download... only took 90 seconds... thanks NBN 

...BUT reprogramming the DSPs took another half an hour - enough time to eat one's pizza 

 

THEN came time to demo - no native DTS:X material in the house of course so which DTS Master-Audio encoded blu-ray should I try ?

 

INCEPTION 

 

The 7702mk2 instantly mapped the surround-back and ceiling channels via what they're calling Neural:X (Dolby Surround appears when mapping legacy AC3 5.1 material to 7.2.4)

 

The results ?

 

Ok - obviously remapping 5.1 to 11.2 doesn't deliver the same sense of space as a natively mastered 3D-audio soundtrack but the performance was quite impressive.  

 

A good example is the initial dream sequence when DiCaprio's character is escaping the Dojo whilst his partner dunks his sleeping body in the bath and the Dojo floods from the windows above  - Neural:X was able to correctly map the rushing water to the ceiling channels which made for a extremely immersive experience 

[Kazz]

Son and I installed the ceiling speakers for Atmos/DTS:X yesterday.

 

As per usual with my house nothing went quite as planned so the install took a lot longer than expected and the roof space was like a furnace in the heat.

 

Anyway got them in and tested to make sure they were working and that was as far as I got last night, just too tired to run Audyssey or even throw in a disc.

 

Will be the watching The Fifth Element tonight to give atmos a go, it's one of my recently purchased Atmos discs that I have been delaying watching until I got the ceiling speakers.

[illusion]

That's a pretty good choice of movie for Atmos Kazz.

By the way who went up into the roof?

[Kazz]

That's a pretty good choice of movie for Atmos Kazz.

By the way who went up into the roof?

 

I've got a few Atmos discs now but Fifth Element is a fave so I'll be interested to see how it sounds in Atmos.  

 

Hahaha................son of course, I did my stint in the roof on Saturday moving the aerial cable for my bedroom from down one wall to down another (where I wanted it in the first place but the installer decided it was easier for him not to put it there   ).  One of the in ceiling speakers is in the shallow part of the roof and I don't bend well enough any more to get there      

[Kazz]

I finally got time to sit and watch The Fifth Element last night.......................WOW the atmos track on this disc is superb.

 

I'm running a 7.2.2 system with the height speakers in the top middle position.

 

This movie has always had an awesome audio track (and I've bought this several times through several "remasters") but this atmos track takes it to a whole new level.  The music utilises the height speakers as well as the sound

 

effects from small details to large booms.  

 

This is such an immersive soundtrack that I am extremely happy to have added atmos to my system.

 

The pq on this disc has caused some arguments over on AVS (and in my household) as it's much more lifelike and has more detail than the previous remaster, but some people are of the opinion that it's too dull, I personally like this version better.

[Lil Caesar]

...watching Spectre in 7.1 dts hd.

Neural mapped the initial helicopter sequence with superb accuracy from the 7.1 soundtrack to the ceiling channels.

Brilliant.

[Kazz]

Just watching Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation which has one of the best audio tracks out there in 7.1 but in Atmos...........................even better.  

 

I'm really enjoying the whole Atmos experience,  need to try some DTS:X too.

[Lil Caesar]

Something strange which I'd appreciate some feedback from other members.....

Watching game of thrones season five on blu ray which ought to carry Dolby atmos - in fact there's a cool new Dolby Video at the start to promote it. Select the atmos soundtrack yet.... Nada ?!? The 7702mkII reads it as only Dolby digital.

Pulled the disc out and put in both Sherlock abominable bride and Jupiter ascending to confirm my setup config and both reported atmos as expected.

....are our got5 discs lying to us?

The packaging and the disc menu indicate it should be there. What's up?!?

Edited March 19, 2016 by Lil Caesar

[Guest Sime]

Did you go into the sound menu on the disc and select it. Dolby Digital comes up the default on my player.

[Lil Caesar]

Did you go into the sound menu on the disc and select it. Dolby Digital comes up the default on my player.

....yep and still no atmos. I can see on my Sony bluray player that the Dolby truehd 7.1 soundtrack is selected as opposed to legacy dd5.1 and I have bitstream selected in the audio config so the atmos metadata should be feeding to my prepro just like it does with the other atmos movies. Very frustrating !

[Guest Sime]

That's a shame. On disc one when that new ATMOS logo/demo comes up, is that playing in ATMOS?

[Lil Caesar]

That's a shame. On disc one when that new ATMOS logo/demo comes up, is that playing in ATMOS?

No...but haven't checked the playback info during that bit to see what exact format the player is reading, will do that tonight. Keen to get to the bottom of this.

[Guest Sime]

I've wondered why of late, on my processor, why Multi Channel in is displayed more often than Dolby TrueHd or DTS Master comes up.

If I put on a disc that I know used to be DTS HD, it still shows, but these days it's mostly Multi channel in.

[Lil Caesar]

Eureka.

Solved my game of thrones atmos issue.

Turns out my bluray player allows the mixing of soundtrack and audio commentary which is quite clever but this option appears to be incompatible with atmos - too much data I suspect.

So...

Turned off this feature and behold - atmos is back

Funny thing is it's only this got series that has exhibited this issue.

[betty boop]

Eureka.

Solved my game of thrones atmos issue.

Turns out my bluray player allows the mixing of soundtrack and audio commentary which is quite clever but this option appears to be incompatible with atmos - too much data I suspect.

So...

Turned off this feature and behold - atmos is back

Funny thing is it's only this got series that has exhibited this issue.

 

what is your blu-ray player LC ? I know some discs e.g. john wick use transcoding and players like cambridge 751 or oppo 93/95 cant process atmos 3D audio as well with these tracks. need the later cambridge 752 or oppo 103/105. either way good to hear you found a solution though... one for me to put in the memory banks.

[Lil Caesar]

what is your blu-ray player LC ? I know some discs e.g. john wick use transcoding and players like cambridge 751 or oppo 93/95 cant process atmos 3D audio as well with these tracks. need the later cambridge 752 or oppo 103/105. either way good to hear you found a solution though... one for me to put in the memory banks.

It's a Sony BDP-S6500.  Kinda angry at myself for not checking the player audio setup thoroughly but I assumed I had that in order.  The options on this BDP are not nearly as extensive as the setup permutations in the Oppos' or the latest CA units but obviously little things can still catch out even the most ardent enthusiasts

[Jventer]

A wild idea.

Why not have a track based system solidly fixed to the ceiling and sealed speakers like Cabasse/Epsilon which can be track mounted.

Think about track mounted lights. It could be quite a nice modern look.

One could even build the tracks that it acts as speaker cable.

That way you dont have to make holes in the ceiling and possibly be able to adjust the position for the different formats.

Could work in the front as well if one wishes to move the speakers up and down.

 

(Einstein apparently said that imagination is more powerful than intellect .)

[betty boop]

red tails and its auro3D track brought to my attention, great reviews on avs forum,

 

RedTails Auro 3D - it was truly worth the wait!

Well, when I purchased RedTails a few years ago on first release I had high expectations for the sound mixing. For a start it was originally recorded and mastered in Auro 3D and secondly it's a Lucas film. But I was unbelievably disappointed by the delivery of a boring, dull, lack of dynamics and pretty unimmersive sound mix. 

 

So a few months back when I noted that it had been released with a full Auro encoding I was super excited and of course purchased instantly.

 

Well again I was greatly disappointed as I found the encoding had been done incorrectly and thus no Auro stream to choose. 

 

But a week or so ago I received an updated disc from the distributing studio and am more than happy to report it has a full and certainly more than working Auro 11.1 stream buried within a 5.1 LPCM package. And this time there is no disappointment. 

 

From the beginning to the end there is no let up from the amazing sound mixing work. Every channel of the 11.1 system has been utilised to its full whilst remaining natural and non distracting.

 

The VOG gets a mighty work out. Best hope you have some good speakers installed as there are quite a few fly overs that when coupled with the subs certainly rock the room. My Datasat RS20i and amps haven't had this much of a work out in ages. And similarly for the PHC LFC15 and Aerial SW12 subs... Working well together to get my screen vibrating. Haha...

 

And the dialogue is crystal clear. You have a dog fight going on, literally all around you, while being able to hear the faintest voices from behind a muffling breathing apparatus. 

 

And while of course all the bombastic dog fights are fully immersive and exciting, again, for me the most realistic aspect of Auro 3D is when watching scenes of the characters chatting on the airfield. What Auro does is recreate atmospherics incredibly well. It sounds like I'm sitting in an open sided tent with them but also aware this tent is clearly on a very large open space. The natural echo of open fields with the sounds of planes flying all around. Some very close and some far far away. In all directions.

 

So, really this is just a notification to all that have Auro to get this disc in your collection. This WILL be your new reference disc. Forget gravity in Atmos etc. I have not heard a domestic system playing non DCI Auro content sound so good. It truly is mind blowing.

 

 

and also this review here also on avs,

 

Review of RED TAILS IN AURO 3d 11.1 sound.

Spoiler alert!

 

Ok, FINALLY i got the right bluray! I love this movie and have seen it several times. I bought this movie first when it came out in 2012 with non- Auro (5.1 DTS-HD), and then the german one late last year (non-working AURO), before i got the working Auro edition from Capelight last week. And it did not disappoint!

 

After listening to the Auro demo disc, i had high hopes for this movie, and i love dogfights, so if there ever was a movie to properly test a immersive audio format, this would be the one.

 

Let me put it this way: have you watched a Atmos movie lately and wondered if your height speakers is on, or active, because you are having trouble hearing them? Well, Red Tails and Auro 11.1 puts that question to bed! I have never heard a better, more logical and more distinct use of ALL THE SPEAKERS, incl. the heights. Yes even the VOG is used actively

 

It is rather easy: If a car drives from left to right at the bottom of the screen, the sound should follow the car at the bottom of the screen. If a plane moves across the top of the screen, the sound should follow the plane at the top of the screen. This is how Auro works, and in all dimensions, around you, and above you. My jaw dropped so many times i lost count, and you just keep repeating to your self: wow, this is how it should be! Why has this not been done before?

The dogfights are so immersive, you almost get dizzy, and Auro gets you more into the action than a 3D picture would, it is so cool The immense number of bombers and fighters criss-crossing over the screen and things happening at the same time, actually gets so intense that you have trouble following it. And Auro is definitely a big part of that, because i have seen the movie before, and not had that feeling.

I even heard one time a plane came at the screen, over to the left rear, only to have the sound of it disappear below me!! I have never heard that before.

Early in the movie when Joe Little shoot a train and flies trough the explosion, a part flies and hits his windshield, and the sound was right in front of me so loud, i jumped in my seat, hehe.

 

In the scenes at the airfield there is almost constant action overhead, with planes taking off, landing and flyovers. All around you, some are near, some are far, far above. There are birds, wind and the ambiance is unbelievable real, it´s like you are there.

I would almost say that Auro adds not only true 3 dimensional sound, but a 4 dimension, and that is depth. Or distance. Although Atmos too adds a sphere of sound around you, it is much closer, while Auro is just so much better at adding the distance to the mix. Like the planes in the background. You can hear how far away they are. More natural, logical.

If it is in the airfield, on the marked, in the church, in the officers club with background voices/noise, it is so real, you just shake your head.

 

After watching this movie i popped Unbroken(in ATMOS) in the player and played the first chapter with the bomber planes to get a comparison, and truth be told, it is more dynamic and more precise in sound placement, but it is still mostly just around you, not above you. There are countless times the sound should have followed the planes above the screen, but it simply doesn´t. So strange. It is like Auro mixers "have discovered" or "knows" how to include the height speakers in the mix, while the Atmos mixers haven´t gotten that far yet.

So in this case, Auro is the winner in immersive sound, hands down

And remember, It´s been 3 years since Red Tails was mixed, and the first one in 3D sound, so i am guessing they have learned a thing or two since then.

 

This is now my new demo disc for immersive sound, by far, and i can´t wait for the next movie in Auro 3D.

 

Recommended? Well, DOH !!

 

have ordered my copy from amazon de

[Guest Sime]

unusual film to be resurrected for an audio update.

[amkr]

is Auro 3D an old thing or is it relatively new like Atmos?