I agree. Makes me mad. I’m almost at the point at telling my boss to call a guy in and I’ll bloody pay for it. 

Edited November 26, 20178 yr by mikizee

On 02/06/2017 at 11:08 PM, Frog said:

Hi @proftournesol, 

As a barista judge who's restored a few E61s in my time and handled the purchase and pimping of around 20 in total, I can say that the coffee tech is if not entirely incorrect then at least misguided in his application of a 

truism coupled with a logical fallacy.

 

Coffee is made hot. The E61 design and other variants of the original Bezzera group head all include a huge lump of brass sitting near to the boiler... on purpose. Not a design flaw, it reduces the cost of keeping the machine on and warm while the thermal inertia stops the fluctuations in boiler temp caused by the thermostat kicking the element on and off from affecting the temperature of the shot (at least in a general sense - I'm going 2nd year Interest in Coffee course here not teaching a D. Phil in Espresso Mechanics and Technology.  

 

Back on track, in the 70s a few manufacturers were prone to making machines to extract the desired brew by Aussies. Dark as coal, black as coal, oils like engine oils and tasty as second hand bonfire, this coffee was roasted until it was nearly carbon and brewed at or around 97-98C. They didn't mind making the groups weigh less (it saved money) or putting them a little too close to the boiler. Boema, La San Marco, Saeco are the biggest culprits and a few Rancilio machines - mostly the commercial ones made the problem famous in Australia. These particular machines can have their boiler pressure lowered, of course, but then struggle to produce a good head of steam without tweaking. The Rancilios were always a bit different as it wasnt cost cutting per se but a result of an interesting design department who alternated between commercial success and failure with equal flair. 

 

Prosumer E61 machines don't skimp. The ULKA EP5 plastic bodied pumps have been replaced by brass EX5's. The Parker solenoids and pressurestats are used all over the place, and you can use variations on a PIF or other microcontroller to cycle the boiler element in a tiny deadband with low voltage switching instead of mains voltage - definitely an improvement, and they're likely to make great coffee with a usual designed extraction temperature of 92-96C, usually set by the pressurestat with a 0.5c deadband. Perfect for espresso with modern roasts of specially coffee, especially for arabica from the countries we tend to buy it. 

 

And can you taste the difference in extraction temperature with a 1C variance? I can - but I've got a well trained palate and extensive tasting experience,which has been relied on in competition situations. At one barista championship we tested 24 baristas - only 2 could reliably order a 3 cup selection in temperature order with a 80%+ accuracy. 

 

As for the problem machines... They're the "$1000 on Gumtree, needs plumbing in" type. Otherwise if you can't stretch to a La Marzocco, you're as well off with an E61 as anything. 

 

Coupling an E61 with a PID isn't the best option if you want to fiddle with copy temperatures though. The brass holds so much thermal mass that it entirely works against the PID main be edits -  polling speed, accuracy and a fast feedback loop. Especially if it's the traditional distance to the boiler.

 

Happy drinking folks!  

The difficult question is how the individual wants to enjoy their coffee. If you have a cafe latte you will never taste 1 degree shift in shot temperature. 

 

 

should I be worried about this effecting extraction flavour? Somebody has used a scourer to clean the group handle and removed the chrome plating.

 

Machine is an Expobar Minore IV

 

 

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by blybo

No probs with that at all, it only ever a matter of time that that happens.

26 minutes ago, blybo said:

should I be worried about this effecting extraction flavour? Somebody has used a scourer to clean the group handle and removed the chrome plating.

 

Machine is an Expobar Minore IV

 

 

 

I clean my PF on a regular basis 

Use dishwashing detergent and a stainless steel scrub bud 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Full Range said:

Use dishwashing detergent and a stainless steel scrub

I'd suggest some coffee backwash detergent and a brush.

I use Caffetto cleaner, a stainless scourer then usually goes through the dishy for good measure

On 26/11/2017 at 9:52 AM, Rockford said:

@cookster Did you make this yourself or buy it? Looking for something similar.

 

yes home made, 1x1 inch timber painted black and added a few clips from Bunnings. I looked all over the place for one and could only find a rather expensive one in Germany. My local coffee shop liked it so much I made one for them too.

Well, our coffee machine at work (La Marzocco GS/3) blocked up again, and this time the state manager was interstate so the boss filling in called in a professional right away! Praise jebus.

 

According to him, the issue was that the machine isn't being used enough  - it was only going through about 4.5 litres a day, and he said it should be about 7.5 litres. He also said the machine should never be switched off - EVER. That was probably my fault, as when it blocked up on the weekend, the first thing I did was switch it off then on.The tech said had it not been switched off, it would have taken him much less time to clear out the blockages. Or something. So we have all been told that if we are in the kitchen, and not even making a coffee, to just hit the single shot button to flush the water through the machine a bit. 

 

Sadly I wasn't there to request the tech to dial in the grinder with our current batch of beans... it still isn't right. 

16 minutes ago, mikizee said:

Well, our coffee machine at work (La Marzocco GS/3) blocked up again, and this time the state manager was interstate so the boss filling in called in a professional right away! Praise jebus.

 

According to him, the issue was that the machine isn't being used enough  - it was only going through about 4.5 litres a day, and he said it should be about 7.5 litres. He also said the machine should never be switched off - EVER. That was probably my fault, as when it blocked up on the weekend, the first thing I did was switch it off then on.The tech said had it not been switched off, it would have taken him much less time to clear out the blockages. Or something. So we have all been told that if we are in the kitchen, and not even making a coffee, to just hit the single shot button to flush the water through the machine a bit. 

 

Sadly I wasn't there to request the tech to dial in the grinder with our current batch of beans... it still isn't right. 

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job. 

30 minutes ago, mikizee said:

<snip>Sadly I wasn't there to request the tech to dial in the grinder with our current batch of beans... it still isn't right. 

Dialling in a grinder is pretty simple.

Make the grind fine enough to reduce a standard pour below 30 ml (in 30 seconds). Coarsen the grind until a standard pour is 30 ml (approximately will do).

This should actually be adjusted each morning, and sometimes during the day if the weather changes. Not only is each bean and roast different but age since roasting and time in the hopper will change the best grind.

And of course the amount of beans in the grinder, the dosing, settling, and tamping must be the same for each pour. That is also fairly straight forward if only one person is doing it. With many operators it's not so easy.

4 hours ago, eman said:

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job. 

Sounds like everyone needs to drink more coffee!

11 hours ago, mikizee said:

Well, our coffee machine at work (La Marzocco GS/3) blocked up again, and this time the state manager was interstate so the boss filling in called in a professional right away! Praise jebus.

 

According to him, the issue was that the machine isn't being used enough  - it was only going through about 4.5 litres a day, and he said it should be about 7.5 litres. He also said the machine should never be switched off - EVER. That was probably my fault, as when it blocked up on the weekend, the first thing I did was switch it off then on.The tech said had it not been switched off, it would have taken him much less time to clear out the blockages. Or something. So we have all been told that if we are in the kitchen, and not even making a coffee, to just hit the single shot button to flush the water through the machine a bit. 

 

Sadly I wasn't there to request the tech to dial in the grinder with our current batch of beans... it still isn't right. 

I'll take it off your hands, and swap you a Nespresso machine - that doesn't need too many a day to keep it running.... no need to thank me :-)

Ok,

 

my son son bought me and the boss a coffee machine.....

 

i can't believe the cost of this thing, apparently self cleaning and all!   Water level detection and different pods has different selections..  

the milk container can be easily pulled out and sit in the fridge!  And all is self cleaning!    Really! It's too good to be true!   

Made in Italy......

 

came with 16 pods.  At $0.65 a pod,  I think it's cheaper and faster with instant.  

 

Edited December 28, 20178 yr by Addicted to music

29 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

came with 16 pods.  At $0.65 a pod,  I think it's cheaper and faster with instant.  

 

5g coffee, 3g packaging... an environmental disaster

34 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

my son son bought me and the boss a coffee machine.....

brave man posting that here ! can blame the son i guess  

 

wife bought a pod machine too by the way...but never posted a pic of it here or made a mention....  

 

5 minutes ago, Mr_Gimlet said:

an environmental disaster

dont give him any ideas be trying to find ways to recycle pods or something

2 hours ago, Mr_Gimlet said:

5g coffee, 3g packaging... an environmental disaster

I just bring the pods to my local florist - literally 5 minutes down the road.

 

They recycle Nespresso pods.

 

I had the older Lattissima. Decent machine but I wasnt a big fan of the way the milk was frothed/steamed. Too bubbly. Not sure if the new one is fixed. 

 

I ended up getting the Maestria and doing it manually. Still no latte art but texture is good. 

 

If I had to buy it all over again, I would choose the new Creatista. Made by Breville and has an auto steam wand. 

 

As much as I like the coffee from a grinder/boiler espresso machine. I just don't have the space at work. The Lavazza one I picked up from Coles for $90 with an induction frother is bloody good value. And tastes decent too. Better than my older Caffitaly at work. 

 

And I have that Maestria at home for when I need some variety or when I run out of beans. 

 

 

5 hours ago, al said:

brave man posting that here ! can blame the son i guess  

 

wife bought a pod machine too by the way...but never posted a pic of it here or made a mention....  

 

dont give him any ideas be trying to find ways to recycle pods or something

I considered it a luxury item that I would never buy for myself.    I know know why he did it!  Apparently my daughter suggested it, and you know what's funny is that my son doesn't even drink coffee,  he was told to stay off caffeine as it stuffs his sleep patterns.  

And speaking of pods,  yes what a environmental disaster....

what im gonna do is take them apart and put in the compost for our veggie patch,  then place the packaging in the recycling bin!   I said to the kids, it's $0.65 a pod!   So then they went to see if we can put reused the pod, trick the machine and put instant coffee as a substitute.   

 

Got to love it when someone who doesn't drink coffee to see if he could bypass buying pods.... 

On 27/12/2017 at 2:58 PM, Addicted to music said:

Ok,

 

my son son bought me and the boss a coffee machine.....

 

i can't believe the cost of this thing, apparently self cleaning and all!   Water level detection and different pods has different selections..  

the milk container can be easily pulled out and sit in the fridge!  And all is self cleaning!    Really! It's too good to be true!   

Made in Italy......

 

came with 16 pods.  At $0.65 a pod,  I think it's cheaper and faster with instant.  

 

Do you say pods?

You will soon realize pod machines are like domestic printers.

Cheap to buy but the refills are extortion.

On 12/27/2017 at 4:34 PM, al said:

brave man posting that here ! can blame the son i guess  

 

wife bought a pod machine too by the way...but never posted a pic of it here or made a mention....  

 

dont give him any ideas be trying to find ways to recycle pods or something

I have seen self refillable pods......

On 01/01/2018 at 7:09 PM, Jliang70 said:

I have seen self refillable pods......

Where?  

Here is a review on youtube about this refillables.

 

 

The price for Bigsis Inox is $52 for 2 from the local distributor

 

https://www.cremajoe.com.au/products/sealpod-starter-pack?variant=6832876929

 

You will need a good coffee grinder for a good cup just as you do with semi or manual expresso  machine.  

On 29/12/2017 at 5:25 PM, joz said:

Do you say pods?

You will soon realize pod machines are like domestic printers.

Cheap to buy but the refills are extortion.

I have two of these,  just mine is a bit bigger than most.   1 use 8 ink cartridge and is about 2 metres long, 1.5 meter tall, I only change the cartridge once a year because they are 700ml each.  And the other 1 is smaller about 1 metre long, weighs about 50 kg and use 12 inks. 

Edited January 3, 20188 yr by Jliang70

22 hours ago, Jliang70 said:

I have two of these,  just mine is a bit bigger than most.   1 use 8 ink cartridge and is about 2 metres long, 1.5 meter tall, I only change the cartridge once a year because they are 700ml each.  And the other 1 is smaller about 1 metre long, weighs about 50 kg and use 12 inks. 

Does the 1 metre long  50kg happens to be a Epson Pro 4900?  Awesome printer if it is.  So you have approx 8.4 ltrs of ink just there.

On 29/12/2017 at 5:25 PM, joz said:

Do you say pods?

You will soon realize pod machines are like domestic printers.

Cheap to buy but the refills are extortion.

I'm trying to figure out how to feed instant in it!