Sijo before you actually buy/build the timber frames and covering material.......might I suggest......buy some Acoustisorb 3 (or similar) and 'Jury Rig' them in situ around the room.     Ist and 2nd reflection, to start.   

 

Prop them on a chair/s (?) at various locations and see what effect they have.    If you are happy they do something positive, then start the construction process.   

 

Good luck.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

PS.    As a Stereonet OH&S warning, regards my advice...............if they don't work as Acoustic Panels, do not use them as a parachute.  👍

 

Thanks again C

 

I have three kids of varying ages and height so will employ them for holding and moving the bare panels while I sit and interrogate the sound reproduction.
ill re-direct them around the room as required and report on both any sound improvements and children's health following this exercise.

I do have a cat (and three guinea pigs) that could be strategically positioned around the room to augment the room treatment.  Also one goldfish however not expecting much from the little guy.  Would be a conversation started once secured to a wall though...
 

I have never asked ChatGPT for what it thinks when it comes to audio advice, and I don't think I ever will.  I go straight to selected knowledgeable people and listen to what they say, make my own observations with my own ears and then make my decisions.

Can I also say to everyone, thanks for contributing to a my original post.

I have read widely across the forum and and am genuinely amazed by the amount of deep knowledge here. 

I appreciate the time people will take responding to possibly simple and repeated questions from new members.

 

cheers

 

 

1 hour ago, MrC said:

I have never asked ChatGPT for what it thinks when it comes to audio advice, and I don't think I ever will.  I go straight to selected knowledgeable people and listen to what they say, make my own observations with my own ears and then make my decisions.

 

Can't say fairer than that MrC.  👍 

 

The moral of the story is..........each to their own designs.    Research how you want, ask questions, seek guidance, receive information, and finally, make your own choices, based on your situation and needs.

 

Happy listening.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

  

5 hours ago, MrC said:

I have never asked ChatGPT for what it thinks

 

That's good. Because it doesn't "think" in any sense of the word where it applies to animal cogitation.

It cannot be said often enough: it generates text from a plausible-next-word statistical computation derived from a large dataset.

Typically these datasets are very large and not curated (e.g. fact-checked).

 

Which is to say that if the dataset is derived from crawling an audio forum in which a thousand members voiced an opinion about acoustic treatment, then what the LLM will generate is a mishmash text of the most frequent (plus minus other "algorithmic" parameters) words by those members. This text could appear plausible enough. But likely won't be, or it won't be more poignant than what the more knowledgeable voices were saying all along.

 

At best it will look like the product review summaries generated by Amazon's LLM. Worse cases include false assertions, context-ignoring generalisations, and weird or unhelpful equivocating of the "yes it can be helpful, but it can also unhelpful, you best consult an exptert" kind—for which output a significant amount of electricity was used up in some data centre somewhere in the world. What a waste.

 

Mentioned once or twice already but please do grab an inexpensive Mic (UMIK-1 or similar) and REW or similar and take some measurements.   It is pretty easy and it will save you a lot of messing about.   You really have very little idea what is going on in your room without measuring and putting treatments in the wrong place will degrade the sound.

 

Measure twice and treat once....  

sijo1974 - You must have bought your speakers from Charles at Duratone 🙂. You could consider the DSPEAKER ANTI-MODE X2 Room Correction and Equalizer DSP. It can be inserted between the pre and power amplifiers, About $1180 shipped to Australia. See attached link.

 

https://www.bkelec.com/anti-modes/AMX2.htm

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2025Sep 3 by edwinr

7 hours ago, edwinr said:

sijo1974 - You must have bought your speakers from Charles at Duratone 🙂. You could consider the DSPEAKER ANTI-MODE X2 Room Correction and Equalizer DSP. It can be inserted between the pre and power amplifiers, About $1180 shipped to Australia. See attached link.

 

https://www.bkelec.com/anti-modes/AMX2.htm

 

 

 

 

Good call.    I would go for this option regardless of your room treatment activity.     I use Mini DSP / Dirac and GLM.  Both are an excellent addition to the system.

Isn't this the chicken and the egg situation?   Which came first?

 

Posters are perhaps giving the impression that setting up a Mic and using REW to make assessments is a simple process.    How many newbies do you know that could use REW effectively?      Good luck with that process for people who aren't computer savvy.    DSP/Dirac hardware costs money to buy, and then you pay for the software. 

 

Some will say...............oh get a professional in..................Yep for $500+.    

 

Ultimately, the results you get will probably involve the placement of some form of Acoustic Panel/Treatment.   

 

I'm not sure why it all has to be so complicated.    Why not start off with the KISS principle?    The simplest and least expensive way is to do some google searches about Acoustic Panel placement.     Buy some suitable treatment i.e. Acoutisorb 3 and undertake some trial and error placement.   What's the worst that can happen?    Once you see what effect it has, then move on from there if you feel the need.   

 

Tiny steps to start with.     Learn to drive in a 4 cylinder and move onto a V8 down the track.   

 

Regards Cazzesman

cazzesman, unlike the mini DSP/Dirac option (but is for the more tech/computer savvy user) you don't need to be computer savvy to use the DSPeaker Anti-Mode X2. It's a plug and play option. It does have a microphone (supplied). You simply connect the microphone to the device, place the microphone in the seating/listening position, and push the go button. After a few minutes of squeaks and chirps and other electronic sounds, the system is ready to go. The result is brilliant and bypasses the somewhat haphazard room treatment options which really don't work that well unless installed by an expert.  Room treatments only work well when the particular room or studio's anomalies are properly diagnosed and appropriate room treatments are deployed. Otherwise it becomes a huge and expensive exercise in time wasting, and unnecessary frustration when it doesn't work.

 

Just saying.

 

Attached is a pic of my Anti-Mode X2 which sits between my pre-amp and one of my mono bloc power amps. Usually the display is dark, but I've activated it for this pic. The change the X2 made to my listening experience is unbelievable. The room I'm currently using is the worst I've ever used. Bass traps and other room treatments I tried just couldn't tame the room anomalies.  

 

Edited September 3, 2025Sep 3 by edwinr

The short answer is: DSP is for low frequencies, room treatment is for high frequencies. 

 

The thickness of absorbers determines what wavelengths it will absorb. If you want to absorb low frequencies, you need VERY THICK foam. To give you an idea, it needs to be 1/8 the wavelength. And a 40Hz sound has a wavelength of 8m, which means the foam needs to be 1m thick. It's impractical to absorb long wavelengths, so forget it. 

 

DSP is ineffective at high frequencies. This is because long wavelengths form predictable patterns in rooms. As wavelengths get shorter, the patterns become less predictable and more difficult to correct. 

 

The two are complementary, it's not one or the other. But it can be said that ALL rooms will have bass problems, but not all rooms have high frequency problems. So it is likely that most people will benefit from DSP, but not everyone will benefit from room treatment. In fact it is very likely that you won't need it. How do  you know? Get a microphone, download REW. 

 

I'm going to go on a bit of a rant: I find this resistance to learning to be odd, as if it's a waste of time learning acoustics. It's part of our hobby, EVERYONE who aspires to a high performance system should be learning acoustics and taking their own home measurements to see what can be improved. Instead, people waste time and thousands of dollars on power conditioners, network tweaks, cables, audiophile fuses, and the like! Why bother with trying to do things the right way, when you can take the haphazard approach, waste money, and degrade the sound instead? It's exasperating that people are even trying to debate this point. 

19 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

The short answer is: DSP is for low frequencies, room treatment is for high frequencies. 

 

The thickness of absorbers determines what wavelengths it will absorb. If you want to absorb low frequencies, you need VERY THICK foam. To give you an idea, it needs to be 1/8 the wavelength. And a 40Hz sound has a wavelength of 8m, which means the foam needs to be 1m thick. It's impractical to absorb long wavelengths, so forget it. 

 

DSP is ineffective at high frequencies. This is because long wavelengths form predictable patterns in rooms. As wavelengths get shorter, the patterns become less predictable and more difficult to correct. 

 

The two are complementary, it's not one or the other. But it can be said that ALL rooms will have bass problems, but not all rooms have high frequency problems. So it is likely that most people will benefit from DSP, but not everyone will benefit from room treatment. In fact it is very likely that you won't need it. How do  you know? Get a microphone, download REW. 

 

I'm going to go on a bit of a rant: I find this resistance to learning to be odd, as if it's a waste of time learning acoustics. It's part of our hobby, EVERYONE who aspires to a high performance system should be learning acoustics and taking their own home measurements to see what can be improved. Instead, people waste time and thousands of dollars on power conditioners, network tweaks, cables, audiophile fuses, and the like! Why bother with trying to do things the right way, when you can take the haphazard approach, waste money, and degrade the sound instead? It's exasperating that people are even trying to debate this point. 

 

keith_W, I agree 100%. For room treatments to work properly, you need to know what you're trying to fix via appropriate room analysis. The infinitesimal 'improvement' offered by snake oil remedies is vastly out weighed by what the listening room brings to the equation, regardless of what speaker/amplifier choice is made.

 

I first started diagnosing my room's acoustics by manually completing a frequency response graph with readings I obtained using a sound generator and a digital sound level meter (C weighted). It was slow and cumbersome, but the results gave me an idea where my problems area were - mainly sub 500 Hz.

 

Some research revealed there were some great low cost audio spectrum analyzer options available. The first one I tried was this Apple App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-spectrum-analyzer/id1508848574s available. It's a bit crude, but seemed to corroborate my manually recorded frequency graph.

 

This has led to  where I am now. I bit more knowledge about room acoustics, and more importantly, how to rectify them.

 

In my opinion, Dirac Live option is one of the best out there. mini DSP is excellent. The room correction engine offered by DSPeaker is pretty good too, but more user friendly.

On 30/08/2025 at 12:34 PM, sijo1974 said:

Hey - Cazzesman - appreciate your posts and help.  Made me laugh.

Was married and now striking out on my own, so either way, the stereotypical audiophile male holds true!

I'll look into making those panels.  From a quick search, prices for acoustic treatment seem crazy considering what they're made from.

I suppose you're paying for the technical knowledge and design that went into them, or maybe just another way to suck money from Hi-Fi geeks.

Were you suggesting I place the panels in front of the window and between the arch on the other side?

I understand panels can be used for both absorption and deflection and that choice and placement are important when looking to improve a room's acoustics.

I know the TV is flat but would it replicate some of the benefits i see from panels placed on the wall between speakers?

Cheers

 

Selby have affordable 50mm absorption. 

At these prices, you wouldn't DIY 

https://www.selby.com.au/acoustic-room-treatment/fibreglass-panels.html

 

34 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

 

Selby have affordable 50mm absorption. 

At these prices, you wouldn't DIY 

https://www.selby.com.au/acoustic-room-treatment/fibreglass-panels.html

 

Hi, thanks for showing, you could do  quite a lot of m2 with not a lot of money in that range of products.

Most (90%) rooms can stand to have at least first reflection points treated of hard bare, walls, floor and ceiling for serious punters,,,

Thanks for the suggestion. 

Given the curtains on one side of the room, and the arch on the other, I'm thinking I'll need panels that I can put in place when critical listening and then remove afterwards.

 

Assuming I'll need to put the panels on some kind of feet so they're free standing.  Might be a way of adjusting height adjustment to the panels for experimentation.

What did you do? Interested in seeing the outcome. I have a similar room with a large opening on one side and window on the other. I also use to have speakers with side facing woofers, which I found worked better in symmetrical rooms.

I pretty much installed ikea office divides at the first reflection points, then installed some Hybrid panels on them, created symmetry and made a big difference. You can hear the difference by getting someone to move the panels whilst you are listening to music.

On 13/03/2026 at 8:16 AM, JkSpinner said:

I pretty much installed ikea office divides at the first reflection points, then installed some Hybrid panels on them, created symmetry

Good job, well done you have proved a point of having at least the stereo zone/soundplane as a symmetrical layout is worthwhile, using paritians,,, brilliant

How does the area handle bass ? There are ways of controlling bass without the thick foam,,, especially if you are ,,,handy.

Working on the "live end, dead end" theory is a reasonable next step.,,,

Late to this thread but liked the debate very much.

These two points made sense. to a computer duffer who shivers in fear and dread at the thought of REW plots, graphs and measurements and expensive technicians who, after all WILL sell you something, probably a lot.

On 10/09/2025 at 12:36 PM, sijo1974 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. 

Given the curtains on one side of the room, and the arch on the other, I'm thinking I'll need panels that I can put in place when critical listening and then remove afterwards.

 

Assuming I'll need to put the panels on some kind of feet so they're free standing.  Might be a way of adjusting height adjustment to the panels for experimentation.

On 13/03/2026 at 5:16 AM, JkSpinner said:

What did you do? Interested in seeing the outcome. I have a similar room with a large opening on one side and window on the other. I also use to have speakers with side facing woofers, which I found worked better in symmetrical rooms.

I pretty much installed ikea office divides at the first reflection points, then installed some Hybrid panels on them, created symmetry and made a big difference. You can hear the difference by getting someone to move the panels whilst you are listening to music.

It was in this mindset that I (being a time-rich retiree) created my totally unscientific absorption/diffusing panels for first reflection points. No doubt some will hate them, both looks and intention wise, but I enjoyed the process and the results. Having an assymetrical room is the killer of sound stage and imaging. These undoubtably helped in this and made those audible images (???) much clearer and cleaner.

Here's my first reflection point diffuser / absorbers. Free standing DIY frames on old speaker stands, weigh 22.2Kg. 70 to 90mm of Autex Acoustics Quietspace® Panel then 84 blocks of rough wood shapes, bark faced wood, polished wood, quartered angle shapes, soft blocks, vibration squares, stone slab, Absorb-foam, oh! and horse brasses.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow! Very impressive. Maybe you do have too much time on your hands 🙂

16 hours ago, playdough said:

Good job, well done you have proved a point of having at least the stereo zone/soundplane as a symmetrical layout is worthwhile, using paritians,,, brilliant

How does the area handle bass ? There are ways of controlling bass without the thick foam,,, especially if you are ,,,handy.

Hi Playdough

I did a heap of tweaks over a 3 to six month period, from changing silver to copper speaker cables, installing Isoacoustic feet under the speakers, positioning speakers away from the rear wall, adding a subwoofer (as I lost a lot of bass with moving the speakers and adding the feet, but I gained clarity) adding panels to the rear wall. There is only so much you can do with some rooms. But all in all, huge difference, it sounds great. I could probably do with a second set of moveable Hybrid panels, maybe some diffusion panels behind the speakers, and something on the ceiling, but overall, it was a great result, and I had to stop somewhere.

Bass in the room and at the listening position is pretty good, but can be a pain in other smaller rooms around the house, but I can live with that.

It’s kind of live end dead end. There is to much debate about what should be at the first deflection point so I used a combination, but I do prefer live music over recorded music, I like the echo and the soundstage in live music, so my preference is live end at the front.

Great job Grimmie, you don’t always need to be an engineer to achieve good results.

On 04/09/2025 at 6:08 AM, cazzesman said:

oh get a professional in..................Yep for $500+.    

Could be the best money spent on the entire system. Without a map there is no destination.

4 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

I did a heap of tweaks over a 3 to six month period

Ah, such good news, seems like you are all over it.

All the tweaks you mentioned work, including the sub.

I agree that there are only so many things you can do in some rooms. I've just finished a house for the Mrs, that has a vaulted ceiling It's going to be a real problem to deal with as it's unlikely the stereo will be able to have any symmetry floor to ceiling,,, or wall to wall. might employ some partitions

Might even resort to speakers on the deck.... for the better weather.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.