Keith_W Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Appropriate listening for the Easter long weekend, Steff. I revisited the St Matthew Passion this weekend by playing a few of my favourite recordings back to back. Klemperer's recording has been my favourite for > 30 years. It has a star-studded cast of singers, not to mention Klemperer himself. What is unusual about this recording is the abnormally slow tempo. There was an anecdote about the singers getting together and complaining that the tempo was so slow it was difficult to sing, but they dared not approach Klemperer, who looked like this: I googled images of the man smiling, but seriously there are NO images of what he looks like when he smiles. The closest I got was this: Anyway, he was famously stern. The singers drew straws and decided that Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau would go talk to him. Fischer Dieskau: "Excuse me, Herr Dr." Klemperer: "Ja, Fischer?" Fischer-Dieskau: "I had a dream last night. Gott im Himmel thanked me for performing St Matthews Passion. But he asked ... why so slow? " Klemperer scowled, and raised his baton. This time he went slower still until all the singers were blue in the face and gasping for breath. When he stopped, he turned back to Fischer. Klemperer: "FISCHER!!! Gott im Himmel came to me in a dream last night also. He thanked me for performing Bach, but he asked me who is this impertinent Fischer? Put him in his place!" Anecdotes aside, this is the only performance of St. Matt's which has gravitas. You might think you have heard gravitas in other performances, but wait till you hear this one. There is so much weight, so much tragedy, so much emotion, and you really get the feeling the singers believe every word they are singing. Downsides - it is decidedly not HIP (historically informed performance). The orchestra and choral ensemble is huge and certainly not what Bach himself would have assembled in Leipzig. The sound quality is rather muddy. Other recommended performances: - Karl Richter: uses a modern orchestra , but smaller in size than Klemperer's. Amazing choral section, much better than Klemperer's. The conducting is straight laced and traditional. Not HIP either. Sound quality better than Klemperer, but not as good as a modern recording. - Rudolf Lutz or Jos Van Veldhoven: these are the best of the modern HIP recordings IMO. For many, it will be a toss-up between Lutz and van Veldhoven which is why I included them together. Lutz is a little more traditional, Veldhoven a bit more lively with more lilt. Neither plumb the emotional depths as successfully as Klemperer. SQ is amazing for both. - Niklaus Harnoncourt: the original famous HIP recording, and still very good. Harnoncourt is a well known Bach scholar but he is not without his eccentricities. SQ is quite good for its age. - Philipe Herreweghe: (recorded twice). Both are excellent, but I only listened to the later recording this time. This used to be my 2nd favourite after Klemperer, but Lutz and Van Veldhoven have displaced him. Still, a safe recommendation. Excellent SQ, but not as good as modern recordings. NOT recommended: - John Eliot Gardiner: feh on all of you who like this performance. He is way too fast. His performance of "Kommt ihr Tochter" sounds more like a gay dance and completely lacking in weight and gravity. Totally inappropriate, it's as jarring as inviting an oompah band to a funeral. I was horrified when I first heard it but fortunately it did not prejudice me against Gardiner enough to acquire a collection of his Cantatas (which are wonderful BTW). - Masaaki Suzuki: competent and precise, but lacking passion. You know, it's supposed to have passion, that's why it's called a Passion. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) Johann Sebastian Bach....... St Matthew Passion Probably the best version I've heard/seen so far. The boy soloists sometimes struggle with some of Bach's arias, but on the whole it's just fantastic. Was J. S. Bach the greatest genius ever produced by the human race? I say YES. ENJOY! Edited March 30 by MusicOne 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, MusicOne said: just have aversion to downloads That's fair enough, I much prefer discs, too: https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?master_id=1316927&ev=mb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, Keith_W said: that's why it's called a Passion. Not so, but your point is taken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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andyr Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 4 hours ago, MusicOne said: Thanks Steff, but it's not the complete work and it's only available as a download.....much prefer CD. I had a listen on Presto Music UK and it sounds really good.....just have aversion to downloads.....I come from a different era. Cheers.....John. Steff's no spring chicken, M1! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 5 hours ago, MusicOne said: Thanks Steff, but it's not the complete work and it's only available as a download.....much prefer CD. I had a listen on Presto Music UK and it sounds really good.....just have aversion to downloads.....I come from a different era. I prefer CDs also (when available). Otherwise, if I can download a 16/44 version I will and then burn to CD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 5 hours ago, Keith_W said: Anecdotes aside, this is the only performance of St. Matt's which has gravitas. You might think you have heard gravitas... I did say darker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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MusicOne Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 12 hours ago, Steff said: Steff. I have this recording....I quoted it above.....Archiv....which is DG of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 50 minutes ago, MusicOne said: I have this recording....I quoted it above.....Archiv....which is DG of course. So do I, it was too dark to take a picture of Jewel case & disc player. I'm an admirer of Tafelmusik's output and have several of their discs, and of Goebel's work, too. Too bad that Deutsche Grammophon followed inadequate sound engineering & recording methodolgy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 We have two different performances of Mahler - Das Lied von Der Erde today. The first is this BIS recording. I would normally skip it (unknown conductor, unknown soloist ... and Singapore no less, that cultureless, soulless theme park of a "country"). But I noticed something that piqued my interest - "sung in Chinese". The original text of Das Lied featured poems by Li Bai, one of the most famous Chinese poets. These poems were translated from Chinese to German, which Mahler then discovered and used. He left hints of the Chinese context throughout the work, some of the flourishes are distinctly oriental and there is a Mandolin in the orchestra (most easily heard as the accompaniment to the soprano). Li Bai was not from Canton (Guangdong), and he flourished during the Tang Dynasty. Strictly speaking, they should be singing in Sichuanese. But never mind. All Chinese dialects are compact. It has fewer words and fewer syllables than Western languages. It is also tonal and depends on inflection to convey meaning. So how does it work in a Mahler song? Answer: not very well. The singer has to stretch out words across multiple notes because Mahler composed in German. The Cantonese is barely intelligible (I speak Cantonese) because tone and inflection is lost. Granted, I am a bit more critical because I am trying to understand the singing. If you approached it without knowing Cantonese you would have different expectations. What is great about this recording is the sound quality. It is astoundingly good. Everything is crystal clear, open, and realistic. And that unknown conductor actually does a good job of conveying the pathos of this work. And that unknown soloist is quite good as well, although his voice is a little brittle when he hits high notes - a sign he is trying to sing too loud and taking an operatic approach rather than a more intimate "Lieder" approach. If you want a more intimate "Lieder" approach, listen to this: This is an old recording (from 1959) but it is new to me. I am more familiar with his collaboration with Bernstein (1966) or the one with the amazing Fritz Wunderlich and Josef Krips. Fischer-Dieskau has a more intimate, more "Lieder" approach, and this is emphasized by the amazing recording, which sounds like a modern recording. He sounds like he is in the room with you, with the orchestra thrown further back. Fischer-Dieskau is always consistent and has the right amount of emotion and restraint. More restraint than Julius Patzak (who really does sing his heart out) but that's up to your taste. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Venetian Easter Mass - Gabrieli Consort & Players 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilettanteque Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 John Eliot Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists, Monteverdi Choir - Bach; Cantatas For Easter Sunday & Monday 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Easter Monday... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) J S Bach....St John Passion. The Windsbach Boys Choir, with the Freiburg Barock Orchestra. Alas, all of those gray-hairs in the audience.....how do we get young Aussies interested in this kind of music? They are missing so much. I fear the dead-hand of sport is upon everything.....nothing wrong with sport, but life is so much more. The opening Chorus....."Herr, unser Herrscher"....Lord, our ruler, Whose fame In every land is glorious! Edited April 1 by MusicOne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Dilettanteque Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Joining the Telemann festival Collegium Aureum - Telemann: Paris Quartets 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHC Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 R.I.P. maestro Pollini. There is hope this recording be a candidate for DG's new 'The Original Source' series of reissue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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lemarquis Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 What a couple, what a combo... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Mozart - Music for Piano 4 Hands 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdog@groovemasters Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 On 29/03/2024 at 7:14 AM, Dilettanteque said: I am just trying to work out how many degrees that turn was Haha, possibly a triple backflip in pike position, as I then tried listening to a Dvorak violin concerto, then settled on Arvo Part, Fratres & Cantus for Benjamin Britten in memoriam..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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