Power conditioner or regenerator

[Ceeker]

Just now, Neo said:

Borrow something better as that’s the bottleneck for the shunyata powerboard?

Neo

The dealer who loaned me the Shunyata included the premier cable to use with it.

I am also using a Premier cable on my sub, and yesterday I experimented replacing the 2 Initium cables on the monoblocks with the 2 Premier cables (still through the Thor powerboard) which produced a much better result than the Shunyata powerbord. did.
Highs were smoothed out, bass tightened up and midrange glare was reduced.

[Neo]

Then you have your answer. Enjoy the Thor. No point suggesting anything further really. 
Neo

[Ceeker]

I do still intend to look into a more active power conditioning solution like the Isotek Aquarius

[Neo]

13 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

Highs were smoothed out, bass tightened up and midrange glare was reduced

Have you considered with shunyata is how your system actually sounds and with Thor it’s all being throttled down for a better word. I played with their power board and ps10 power centers and let them go after a long ownership. I was introduced to Gigawatt range and never looked back. 
With Thor products it’s as if Vaseline been painted on the window and you try to look through it. Plug your system into the wall al of it and compare to shunyata as an experiment. 
Neo

[Ceeker]

28 minutes ago, Neo said:

Have you considered with shunyata is how your system actually sounds and with Thor it’s all being throttled down for a better word. I played with their power board and ps10 power centers and let them go after a long ownership. I was introduced to Gigawatt range and never looked back. 
With Thor products it’s as if Vaseline been painted on the window and you try to look through it. Plug your system into the wall al of it and compare to shunyata as an experiment. 
Neo

From my earlier post:
 

"currently have a Shunyata AU8 (PS8 with the Shunyata Defender built in) on loan, retail $3900.00.
To my surprise I heard very minimal improvement  over the Thor Smart powerboard I am using as a temporary measure until I can find a permanent power solution, retail $265.00.

I really had to concentrate to hear any difference in the highs and midrange, although there was a definite tightening and deepening of the bass through the sub."
Cannot physically plug all components into the wall

[Neo]

I read that and there’s no need to repeat. Grab the isotek or whatever you think works in your system.

Neo

[Ceeker]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

I read that and there’s no need to repeat. Grab the isotek or whatever you think works in your system.

Neo

Thanks, will definitely have a look at the Gigwatt range

[Assisi]

31 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

will definitely have a look at the Gigwatt range

My understanding is that regenerators and conditioners undertake slightly different functions or roles.  With a regenerator I consider that I can detect a difference or change but there is not an overall net benefit. There seems to something missing from the SQ.  It is interesting to note that numerous regenerator users frequently comment about not powering their power amps through the regenerator.  Whereas I consider that my conditioner provides an overall benefit and I power the power amps through it with no perceived loss of outcome.

My conditioner is a Gigawatt PC4.  I just looked and note that it has gone up significantly in price since I bought mine a few years ago.  

 

It is case of trying the different options and deciding what works best for you and your situation.

John

[SimonNo10]

I've personally had the Thor PS10 and now I'm using a Gigawatt EVO 2 power conditioner, and I much prefer the Gigawatt. I'm also using a DC Blocker in the chain with positive results as the Gigawatt model doesn't have a built in DC Blocker as standard it's an add on. 

 

So I've just purchased a Holton DC Blocker to try out and should arrive early Feb, my current one I ordered from Bulgaria and has performed very nicely but thought I'd try a local product. So I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the Holton Power Conditioner link here:

 

Audio Balanced Power Conditioner | Holton Precision Audio

 

I like trying different things and the Holton seems like a solid product.

 

 

[Duke40]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:29 AM, SimonNo10 said:

So I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the Holton Power Conditioner link here:

 

Audio Balanced Power Conditioner | Holton Precision Audio

 

I like trying different things and the Holton seems like a solid product.

 

@SimonNo10

Simon, I have had the Holton Audio Holton AC One [3KVA version] for approximately 2 years.

 

Extremely well built and rock solid reliability, plus it made a noticeable difference in comparison to other power products that I have tried.

It also has the DC blocker inbuilt.

 

The owner is an absolute gent to deal with ... my AC out of the wall is a bit higher than I would like at average 248V so Anthony dropped the output voltage by 10V so my gear receives 238V. Plus I like that it is an Aussie product and it is exceptionally well made, looks good in the website photo's, much better in real life.

 

My current setup ...

 

ATM having the 3000W version of the Holton Audio AC One is overkill as it is powering just a headphone rig [Naim Audio Uniti Atom HE + Focal Utopia 2022], along with a simple AV setup [Naim MuSo 2, Apple TV 4K, Sony OLED 77" Master series]. I selected the 3000W version as eventually I plan to get active speakers such as Kii Three, Dutch & Dutch 8C, or maybe the recently announced KII Seven, and wanted something with enough overhead to power those type of speakers [unfortunately several hospital visits have delayed that purchase a little bit].

 

For comparison, the Holton Audio AC One made a noticeable difference and was superior in comparison to the following:

- Bunnings power board

- iFi Audio PowerStation & iFi Audio DC Blocker [initially used this for just the Headphone rig, though the Holton AC One provided better benefits, so moved the Headphone rig to AV rack, and placed iFi Audio PowerStation onto my Network rack, at least is provides some power protection for my Roon Nucleus, Firewall, switchs, WiFi Mesh 6 and other IT gear].

- PS Audio P3

 

Also have experience with the original PS Audio P300[?], DBA balanced power supplies, and a few other products.

 

What I noticed with the Holton Audio AC One was that it dropped the noise floor, blacker background.

Hear more details, sound staging and imaging is more precise, better dynamics [especially macro-dynamics].

 

It provided benefits not just for the Audiophile gear [Naim/Focal] on my AV rack, the normal consumer gear also benefitted [sometimes I think it my Naim MuSo 2 forgets it is just a soundbar, bass improved noticeably. Plus picture quality improved on the Sony OLED with better blacks, colour and contrast].

 

Another thing that I like about balanced power is that gear either with SMPS or linear power supplies, coexist on the same balanced power supply with no degradation.

Unlike when using either the Bunnings power board or iFi PowerStation power conditioner when I would notice the noise floor increase if mixing both types of power supplies.

 

Also when using balanced power, fancy or expensive power cables make less or an impact [I just use entry level IsoTek Initium and Nordorst Purple Flare].

 

I would purchase the Holton Audio AC One again, actually toying with the idea of another headphone rig in my home office, if I move forward with that later in the year then I would definitely consider the 1KVA version of the AC One.

 

Anyhoo, hope that helps.

Edited January 9 by Duke40
typo

[Ceeker]

Just a quick update regarding my system issues, as these insights may help others.
After much experimentation with power cables/boards and even interconnects, actually tracked my upper midrange glare (often screechy) and sibilance issues down to vibration. 
Actually stumbled on this as in frustration, I put my iso acoustics subwoofer stand under my streamer/dac and noticed an immediate reduction in sibilance. Now have 2 books, 2 heavy cutting boards, and a set of iso acoustics oreas under my dac/streamer and ethernet switch. Very ugly, but effective. 90% of sibilance and 70% of upper midrange glare solved.
Now have a Taoc rack on order for the dac/streamer and ethernet switch and iso acoustics oreas for the mono blocs, hopefully this will banish all trace of sibilance/glare.
Thanks again for everyone's help and advice. Will definitely still experiment with power solutions, but this will be to enhance the system ,not solve existing problems, thankfully.

Edited January 14 by Ceeker

[POV]

On 14/01/2024 at 9:29 AM, Ceeker said:

Just a quick update regarding my system issues, as these insights may help others.
After much experimentation with power cables/boards and even interconnects, actually tracked my upper midrange glare (often screechy) and sibilance issues down to vibration. 
Actually stumbled on this as in frustration, I put my iso acoustics subwoofer stand under my streamer/dac and noticed an immediate reduction in sibilance. Now have 2 books, 2 heavy cutting boards, and a set of iso acoustics oreas under my dac/streamer and ethernet switch. Very ugly, but effective. 90% of sibilance and 70% of upper midrange glare solved.
Now have a Taoc rack on order for the dac/streamer and ethernet switch and iso acoustics oreas for the mono blocs, hopefully this will banish all trace of sibilance/glare.
Thanks again for everyone's help and advice. Will definitely still experiment with power solutions, but this will be to enhance the system ,not solve existing problems, thankfully.

 

Fascinating.  Which streamer and DAC is this that was so impacted by vibration?  

[Ceeker]

Auralic Altair G 2.1
The problem is the Magneplanars. Fantastic speaker which I love, but as they are dipole, there are a lot of sound waves (and vibration) behind the speakers where all of the components sit.
The tube power amps (Rogue m180 mono blocs) are also being affected.

Edited January 30 by Ceeker

[andyr]

46 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

The tube power amps (Rogue m180 mono blocs) are also being affected.

 

Verry nice!  

 

46 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

The problem is the Magneplanars. Fantastic speaker which I love, but as they are dipole, there are a lot of sound waves (and vibration) behind the speakers where all of the components sit.

 

Which Maggies, Courtney?

 

[Ceeker]

LRS+
I would have gotten the 1.7's, but the wife put her foot down when she saw the size 
LRS+ are fantastic

Edited January 30 by Ceeker

[andyr]

2 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

LRS+ are fantastic

 

I'm sure they are - especially driven by your Rogue M180 monoblocs!  

 

Not too much difference from 1.7s, I suggest; both need subs to be fully satisfying - so if you add a pair of subs to your LRS+s ... you won't be missing out on much at all (compared to 1.7s).

 

[Ceeker]

Thanks, they do sound amazing with the Rogues, if I can just get rid of the vibration artefacts.
Already have a KEF KC-62 which is a great match for the maggies

[Neo]

12 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

if I can just get rid of the vibration artefacts.

Sound absorbing panel behind the panels, not too close to the speakers. 

[andyr]

9 minutes ago, Ceeker said:

Already have a KEF KC-62 which is a great match for the Maggies

 

Can I suggest:

1.   two of them and

2.  a mains/sub XO - so you roll off the mains as the subs come in.  This:

• reduces the load on your Rogues - so they have more power to drive the remaining frequencies better, plus
• lowers the distortion level on your LRS+s - as single-sided magnets plus big excursions of the mylar at low frequencies, creates distortion.

 

[POV]

36 minutes ago, Neo said:

Sound absorbing panel behind the panels, not too close to the speakers. 

Will that assist with vibration?  

[vivianbl]

2 hours ago, Ceeker said:

Auralic Altair G 2.1
The problem is the Magneplanars. Fantastic speaker which I love, but as they are dipole, there are a lot of sound waves (and vibration) behind the speakers where all of the components sit.
The tube power amps (Rogue m180 mono blocs) are also being affected.

I have a similar issue with my set up with Quad ELS 57s as well - lot of “energy” behind and between the speakers that I have to manage. I have had my electronic components placed on side wall for a long time, but still had to experiment with various resonance control/isolation tweaks. 

One tweak( that may be relevant) that helped to clear an annoying high frequency “smearing” “edginess ” at higher volumes was putting a set of Herbies Lab titanium C rings on my tall valves (300B) on my mono power amps.  The amps are only a metre away front side from the speaker. I know “ dampers” are frowned upon by valve gurus, but it was beneficial in my case. Not sure in your case, but thought I’d mention it.

[Neo]

1 hour ago, POV said:

Will that assist with vibration?  

It may, sound is defined as vibrations through the air. Since the panel speakers move a lot of air, this is worth a try. Isoacoustics Gaia could be an additional avenue to pursue 

Neo

[Ceeker]

13 hours ago, Neo said:

Sound absorbing panel behind the panels, not too close to the speakers. 

Yeah... never going to get that past the boss!

[Ceeker]

13 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Can I suggest:

1.   two of them and

2.  a mains/sub XO - so you roll off the mains as the subs come in.  This:

• reduces the load on your Rogues - so they have more power to drive the remaining frequencies better, plus
• lowers the distortion level on your LRS+s - as single-sided magnets plus big excursions of the mylar at low frequencies, creates distortion.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, maybe down the track, want to get vibration and power sorted first

[Ceeker]

13 hours ago, vivianbl said:

I have a similar issue with my set up with Quad ELS 57s as well - lot of “energy” behind and between the speakers that I have to manage. I have had my electronic components placed on side wall for a long time, but still had to experiment with various resonance control/isolation tweaks. 

One tweak( that may be relevant) that helped to clear an annoying high frequency “smearing” “edginess ” at higher volumes was putting a set of Herbies Lab titanium C rings on my tall valves (300B) on my mono power amps.  The amps are only a metre away front side from the speaker. I know “ dampers” are frowned upon by valve gurus, but it was beneficial in my case. Not sure in your case, but thought I’d mention it.

I was definitely considering tube damping but was shying away from it as many say it can suffocate dynamics.
"Edginess" is a great way to describe the issue, though mine occasionally veers into screechiness.
I had a look at Herbies website, may I ask which of the 3 models are you using?
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers

Also, did you try damping the input tubes? On the Herbies site they recommend trying this first.

 

Edited January 30 by Ceeker