Tone Malone Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 Hi brains trust, I've been considering some platter mat options for my turntable, including the Funk Firm Achromat, Herbie's Mat, and cork/composite cork. The quandary is, I'm not sure if any will really improve sound quality. My turntable (a 1980s Yamaha YP D10, not dissimilar to the D71) has a solid aluminium platter and its stock, 4mm deep rubber mat is still in good nick. Can anyone advise on whether it would make for any real upgrade? Or would I just be throwing $100-200 at something that just looks a bit funkier? I'd be especially interested in opinions from anyone who's compared newer mats with the older thick rubber ones, on comparable direct drive turntables. Thanks!
denimhunter Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 What is ur system particularly turntable? Some are more sensitive to such changes than others. I use Garrard 401, and mat is necessary to reduce ringing from the aluminium platter. I tried quite a number of different inc. delrin, graphite to Harmonix tuning etc. Now I use 78rpm shellac over leather-not suede. U can also use a 180-200g unused vinyl record but I found the old shellac is flatter.
aussievintage Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 I have experimented extensively with different materials for mats. The list includes foam, felt, rubber (thick and thin) cork, cork/neoprene, leather, heavy barium impregnated rubber, other vinyl records glued together, shellac records (good for adding mass). My honest opinion is that it is a lot about look & feel when using them. However, the point above is true, a heavy rubber mat can deaden ringing. The heavy barium-rubber mat is good for that (Jaycar sell it). One thing I don't get is using no mat at all. I know some people swear it ios a good thing, but I cringe at the thought of my precious vinyl sliding on a hard surface - especially on tables where I change the record while it is spinning. 1
metal beat Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 2:25 AM, aussievintage said: I have experimented extensively with different materials for mats. The list includes foam, felt, rubber (thick and thin) cork, cork/neoprene, leather, heavy barium impregnated rubber, other vinyl records glued together, shellac records (good for adding mass). My honest opinion is that it is a lot about look & feel when using them. However, the point above is true, a heavy rubber mat can deaden ringing. The heavy barium-rubber mat is good for that (Jaycar sell it). One thing I don't get is using no mat at all. I know some people swear it ios a good thing, but I cringe at the thought of my precious vinyl sliding on a hard surface - especially on tables where I change the record while it is spinning. Expand If you are using a hard surface platter mat or no mat at all, surely common sense prevails and you stop the table to change records. Not difficult 1
rantan Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 2:58 AM, metal beat said: you are using a hard surface platter mat or no mat at all, surely common sense prevails and you stop the table to change records. Expand Why would anybody NOT stop the table before changing records or sides? I can't imagine why people don't do just that. 1
metal beat Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 3:02 AM, rantan said: Why would anybody NOT stop the table before changing records or sides? I can't imagine why people don't do just that. Expand I don't on my LP12, but it has a felt mat. Waiting for belt drives to start and stop can be frustrating when used to DD tables. 1
rantan Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 3:09 AM, metal beat said: I don't on my LP12, but it has a felt mat. Waiting for belt drives to start and stop can be frustrating when used to DD tables. Expand Yep. Fair enough. That's why I love my Pioneer PL 50 1
wasabijim Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 i too was surprised ref flipping the record while it's still spinning. I've done it once or twice in ignorance. I'll often get static build up as it is and I figured it would only further exacerbated that, so no more. now i understand it's more a belt drive trend/party trick. I've the Original Live mat which is only just the claimed 1mm thickness. it goes on top of whatever you've already got going. I think a cork-rubber blended composite makes the most sense although I'd love to try a leather mat. my platter is old school aluminum. I treated the underside with spray on rubber (nothing to do with what we put on the upper side I know). I came across a thin silicon mat (for kitchen use I think), no more than .5-7mm thick I would guess, which i cut down and put directly on to the Alu platter. cork onto this topped off with that OL mat. compared to the bulky stock rubber mat, it's that little more crisp. 1
aussievintage Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 4:25 AM, wasabijim said: I think a cork-rubber blended composite makes the most sense although I'd love to try a leather mat. Expand Cheap to try. Just find a local leather/hobby shop. A small piece of soft leather doesn't cost much. I have a thinnish one sitting on an aluminium platter and I love the feel of settling a record onto the plush surface (I use it "upside down" as the inside surface is softest). I'll make no comment on sound, as I said, for me it's more about look & feel. On 01/08/2022 at 4:25 AM, wasabijim said: i too was surprised ref flipping the record while it's still spinning. I've done it once or twice in ignorance. I'll often get static build up as it is and I figured it would only further exacerbated that, so no more. now i understand it's more a belt drive trend/party trick. Expand Not sure. I do it on big idler turntables. Why stress the drive rubber getting it up to speed from stopped every 45 minutes or so? 1
mloutfie Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 I use achromat from 6mm rubber from technics sp10 mk2. It was a noticeable improvement in detail over rubber. I found mat as a tweak and there is no perfect mat that I have tried. The tweak I found is like this rubber best bass, achromat well balanced (I assume other closed cell foam mat will be in this category), Acrylic for best detail (bass will be thinner). 1
GregWormald Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 My suggestion is to try a suede mat first. Thin floppy suede on top of the thick rubber, adjust the arm height and listen. If that's a positive change then one of the more expensive mats should work a bit better, but the suede is cheap and most often really good. 1
Kristian Kristiansen Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 3:02 AM, rantan said: Why would anybody NOT stop the table before changing records or sides? I can't imagine why people don't do just that. Expand I don't with my Thorens... unless I'm changing speeds or if it's a record that needs pressure to place on / remove from the spindle if it just lifts on and off i can't really see any value or point in stopping and starting a 50 year old motor every 15-20 minutes, 5-10 times a day - every day! 4
Kristian Kristiansen Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 01/08/2022 at 4:34 AM, aussievintage said: Why stress the drive rubber getting it up to speed from stopped every 45 minutes or so? Expand you wanna hook a brother up with these 90 minute LPs you've got? 4
rantan Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 03/08/2022 at 12:49 AM, Kristian Kristiansen said: I don't with my Thorens... unless I'm changing speeds or if it's a record that needs pressure to place on / remove from the spindle if it just lifts on and off i can't really see any value or point in stopping and starting a 50 year old motor every 15-20 minutes, 5-10 times a day - every day! Expand Yep. Fair enough. I guess I was speaking from the fact of my TT being a direct drive. If I used a belt drive I would definitely be more inclined to keeping it going instead of stop/start as you have said. 1
Batty Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 My Townshend Elite Rock mkII was designed to be used without a mat, the platter has a coating of similar properties to that of vinyl records.
Kristian Kristiansen Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 03/08/2022 at 12:52 AM, Kristian Kristiansen said: you wanna hook a brother up with these 90 minute LPs you've got? Expand sorry to go off topic but I found one! 90 Minutes with Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops, made by Radio Shack 1974 - longest album to date that is until the record was broken (see what i did there) by TISM's 'Omni-Album' which is 50 minutes per side (of complete silence) 1
Kirk100 Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 I'm running a pro-ject essential 3 and upgraded to an acrylic platter and a thin cork matt. To be honest I struggle to hear any difference, I added the cork matt cause I was a little paranoid putting records down on a solid surface and could hear the record slightly spin on the platter when I fired it up.
aussievintage Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 03/08/2022 at 1:35 AM, Batty said: My Townshend Elite Rock mkII was designed to be used without a mat, the platter has a coating of similar properties to that of vinyl records. Expand yep and two vinyl records together will scratch each other especially if you are not in a dust free lab environment. Hey, let's stack some LPs on a record changer... On 03/08/2022 at 12:52 AM, Kristian Kristiansen said: you wanna hook a brother up with these 90 minute LPs you've got? Expand Haha... yeah but I sleep for 15 to 20 minutes after each side before waking up to change the record, so I was allowing for that. On 03/08/2022 at 6:50 AM, Kirk100 said: I added the cork matt cause I was a little paranoid putting records down on a solid surface and could hear the record slightly spin on the platter when I fired it up. Expand Yeah, I'd do the same. 2
Tone Malone Posted August 3, 2022 Author Posted August 3, 2022 Thanks for all the feedback. I'll do a bit of experimentation, probably with cheaper mats than the Achromat for now. The rubber mat seems to work now and I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on something significant. On 03/08/2022 at 12:52 AM, Kristian Kristiansen said: you wanna hook a brother up with these 90 minute LPs you've got? Expand ... I'm still learning new quirks about vinyl. In terms of album length, the Audiophiliac did a video review recently talking about an Elvis Costello album that he loved but suffered in SQ from trying to squeeze too many tracks on it. Might have been Get Happy (20 tracks). On 01/08/2022 at 2:25 AM, aussievintage said: know some people swear it ios a good thing, but I cringe at the thought of my precious vinyl sliding on a hard surface - especially on tables where I change the record while it is spinning. Expand Yep, completely with you on that. I'll go one step further and say I'm not keen on record clamps either. I know - one day - I'll fumble the thing and shutter a favourite record. As sod's law will have it, it would probably then bounce back onto the stylus.
aussievintage Posted August 3, 2022 Posted August 3, 2022 On 03/08/2022 at 10:55 PM, Tone Malone said: I'll fumble the thing and shutter a favourite record. Expand Yep, I have dropped a record clamp/weight onto the edge of a record and did some damage
Peter_F Posted August 4, 2022 Posted August 4, 2022 I've used one of the highly lauded and expensive copper mats on my Technics SP10 and thought it was a joke. It looked great but the record easily spin on the platter rendering it useless and, I didn't consider it an upgrade in sound quality either. I much preferred the original SP10 mat. I'm currently trialing a sorbothane mat which seems to dampen the platter quite well, despite being much thinner, but I'm undecided if I prefer it to the original. 1
metal beat Posted August 4, 2022 Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) On 04/08/2022 at 12:29 AM, Peter_F said: I've used one of the highly lauded and expensive copper mats on my Technics SP10 and thought it was a joke. It looked great but the record easily spin on the platter rendering it useless and, I didn't consider it an upgrade in sound quality either. I much preferred the original SP10 mat. I'm currently trialing a sorbothane mat which seems to dampen the platter quite well, despite being much thinner, but I'm undecided if I prefer it to the original. Expand One thing with the copper/gun metal platter mats like the Micro Seiki cu180 is that your records MUST be flat. It's physics that with the strong motor start up the record will slip at the beginning on the hard surface . A record weight will stop that slippage, however adds another variable to sound quality. Ymmv on the sound quality - sound will tighten up and become more neutral. Be careful what you wish for. On my Pioneer Exclusive P3, I prefer the specifically manufactured P3 rubber mat which is unique - slightly more jump and relaxed treble. My Technics SP10MK3, I prefer the cu180 copper platter -more pure sound vs either the thick or thin Technics rubber mats. Edited August 4, 2022 by metal beat 1
aussievintage Posted August 4, 2022 Posted August 4, 2022 One thing I do not often see discussed is mat profiles that allow different style pressings to sit properly flat in the areas actually under the grooved section. I have many rubber mats with complicated raised and lowered sections to account for raised label areas, and raised record edges, all at the different record sizes, 12", 10" and 7" The also provide a benefit edges are for people like me who do change records while the platter is still spinning. The edges are easier to grab hold of when they are positioned over a recess in the mat. 1
Warren Jones Posted August 4, 2022 Posted August 4, 2022 On 04/08/2022 at 12:29 AM, Peter_F said: I've used one of the highly lauded and expensive copper mats on my Technics SP10 and thought it was a joke. It looked great but the record easily spin on the platter rendering it useless and, I didn't consider it an upgrade in sound quality either. I much preferred the original SP10 mat. I'm currently trialing a sorbothane mat which seems to dampen the platter quite well, despite being much thinner, but I'm undecided if I prefer it to the original. Expand One thing that's not well known is the Lenz effect of using a metal mat especially with an MC cart that has large magnets. Any moving conductor be it copper, aluminium brass etc near a magnet will generate a voltage in the conductor which in turn generates an opposing magnetic field. The mat has a difficult job to perform. It must be capable of sinking then damping the enormous energy generated by the stylus / LP interface. Most mats do not provide broadband damping which is why mats can make a large difference in sound on the same TT. 1
Kristian Kristiansen Posted August 4, 2022 Posted August 4, 2022 i bought one of these from the states because they were getting great reviews and only cost twenny dollah here's the puff in the ebay description Standard Thorens Cork Turntable Mat - Specifically designed for models TD 125, 145, 150, 160, 165, and 166. "Audiophile product without the Audiophile Price" This product is handmade by us from top quality cork. This is a complete replacement of any mat you are currently using. The specifications are below but if you have questions, you can send me a message. Features: My mats are handmade and completely made out of pure cork. They do not contain any rubber or artificial fillers. Pure cork provides the most natural sound improvement for your vinyl. I designed the cork dots to specifically support the record only on grooves, not the center label or the lead in groove. This helps the record lay flat and it isolates the record from the platter. Improves sound quality in bass and treble frequencies. Cork is a natural dampener, or rather it absorbs vibrations such as motor rumble. Cork does not conduct electricity so it will not create static on your records. Supports all sizes of records including 12", 10", and 7" inch records. All of the Standard mats come from the same batch of raw cork. The pictures will give an idea on what to expect. i can't tell any difference except maybe a tad more brightness than the stock thorens TD150 rubber matt - which is quite maligned by corksniffers (lol) but sounds fine to my ears 1
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