How Loud Will ML1's Go

[sir sanders zingmore]

I have some recent insight into this question Ken having recently found my wifes bargain basement record player in storage I pulled it out, plugged it in and put on some Nancy Sinatra.  Then 20 minutes later I had to get up and turn the darned thing over and listen for another 20 minutes.  I think that is why Bill does not listen to vinyl...convenience...combined with arthritis.  Same reason I don't listen to vinyl (less the arthritis).

 

Anthony

 

If you wear a bracelet made of duelund capacitors your arthritis will be cured

[acg]

If you wear a bracelet made of duelund capacitors your arthritis will be cured

 

Still cheaper than a Rolex...but does not keep time like one..  hehehehe

[hochopeper]

Is the DEQX instant switching of DSP filter able to be made blind other than through the use of another person?

[hochopeper]

Since we're on the topic of testing.

 

Would anyone actually use a testing box if it could be made such that they could do it on their own without need for other people to do a blind evaluation of your own personal preference? [without more people or a look at measured data - the only conclusion is what you prefer]. The number of people doing their own shoot outs these days - would anyone ever consider using something that made that process simpler? 

 

In the above hypothetical, you choose testing protocol and you just have a switching interface that can be controlled by a computer and an application that makes a web interface for controlling switching blind and recording result. You hook up your gear, sit in your own listening room and listen to some music for a while. 

 

 

I'm building something like this for myself.

Edited August 8, 2013 by hochopeper

[DoggieHowser]

Assuming we're talking about adding DSP processing then it would be very odd indeed as that's not the way you'd do it. What you would do is feed the digital output of his computer into the digital input of a DSP processor and then take the digital outputs and feed them into his existing DAC. He may need more of them. No ADC, no change of DAC.

 

 

 

I messed around with a Behringer DEQ2496 and the matching ECM microphone using a similar method but the final sound was very dry and lifeless, for the lack of a better word.

 

I've also heard a friend using Spatial HD tuned by Clayton Shaw and the Prism Orpheus to do active speaker crossover for his Emerald Physics CS2.7s speakers which sounded very similar.. I think he eventually came to the same conclusion and is selling the system for a Raidho speaker with a passive crossover design in the end.

[sir sanders zingmore]

I messed around with a Behringer DEQ2496 and the matching ECM microphone using a similar method but the final sound was very dry and lifeless, for the lack of a better word.

I've also heard a friend using Spatial HD tuned by Clayton Shaw and the Prism Orpheus to do active speaker crossover for his Emerald Physics CS2.7s speakers which sounded very similar.. I think he eventually came to the same conclusion and is selling the system for a Raidho speaker with a passive crossover design in the end.

Interesting. I have a friend who auditioned some Raidhos and didn't like them. They were too 'dry'.

[DoggieHowser]

Interesting. I have a friend who auditioned some Raidhos and didn't like them. They were too 'dry'.

 

The new Diamond series?

 

I heard the C4.1s (the owner's waiting for the D4) and D1s. The C4.1s were driven by a pair of ASI-badged (Karan designed) mono blocks and preamps and they were pretty damned impressive.

 

The Emerald Physics guy is looking at the D3s

[betty boop]

what was this thread about again ? :lol:

[Audiobugged]

what was this thread about again ? :lol:

I believe it was about whether the ML1's could reproduce the sound pressure levels of a 747 taking off!

[Phantom]

What is it about ML1 s that there is always at least 2 active threads on them at any one time?

 

I don't get it.

[gainphile]

Since we're on the topic of testing.

 

Would anyone actually use a testing box if it could be made such that they could do it on their own without need for other people to do a blind evaluation of your own personal preference? [without more people or a look at measured data - the only conclusion is what you prefer]. The number of people doing their own shoot outs these days - would anyone ever consider using something that made that process simpler? 

 

In the above hypothetical, you choose testing protocol and you just have a switching interface that can be controlled by a computer and an application that makes a web interface for controlling switching blind and recording result. You hook up your gear, sit in your own listening room and listen to some music for a while. 

 

 

I'm building something like this for myself.

 

I'd start with ebay kits. But calling a GTG is simpler

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Relay-Module-4-Channel-USB-Wireless-TOSR04-Xbee-Bluetooth-WIFI-Extension-/330781007406?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4d04159e2e&_uhb=1

 

[davewantsmoore]

Going from analogue to digital then back again can only degrade the signal.  That is an objective fact.  The audibility of such is of course a matter of investigation. 

 

Well of course...  are you really trying to imply that with all I wrote that I would refute that ?!    Come on.

 

You are talking about only the degradation of A>D>A here   .... where as I am posing that the drawback of A>D>A can be insignificant compared to the benefit of DSP.

 

</sigh>

[davewantsmoore]

Doing a DA conversion and back again can only degrade and is best avoided.

 

Unless suffering A>D>A allows you to gain more improvement somewhere else.

[davewantsmoore]

As such it would be odd if he then fed the analog outputs of those DACs into an ADC for processing before feeding it into arguably a less accomplished DAC than what's in the source.

 

It would be odd if anyone chose to use a DSP if the benefits didn't out-weigh the drawbacks.

[Audiobugged]

Doing a DA conversion and back again can only degrade and is best avoided.

Unless suffering A>D>A allows you to gain more improvement somewhere else.

My experience strongly supports this.

I have about 16 dB peak at 42Hz. At anything approaching realistic full range levels, it booms and the wooden blinds and grills on my fireplace vibrate, midrange is muddied. Sound-staging collapses. My room is not ideal but I've heard much worse, including some with very expensive gear that simply doesn't sound good for similar reasons. I've gone through many different paths and the best solutions by far employ some form of room correction. Hence, to me anyone who spouts blanket dogma about a>d>a being best avoided are either ignorant, presumptuous, are pushing their own agenda, or are members of the cult of head-fi...

[ehtcom]

Hi Dave.

There is one big flaw in your argument. Digital still has a way to go to match analog. 

[matt200sr]

Very happy with my ML1 Refs but admit to never really winding them up due to apartment living.

 

Having said that many a quiet late night listening session has left me with a grin on my face  In part due to the synergy of my other system components no doubt.

 

Happy customer here -- will my next speakers be a pair of Mike's latest? Probably not, but I love my ML1's all the same.

 

MB 

[betty boop]

do we need another thread on how loud can a valve go ? ... before it pops  

 

or how loud vinyl goes before the needle starts bunny hopping ! :lol:

 

anyways while there might be the loud and proud. I would never have thought loudness would be something to be boasting about ! have heard a lot of car audio where they sound off for SPLs and sounds absolute sh!te ! 

 

surely its about quality and not quantity ! the best rooms and systems have come across you dont have to crank to the max to enjoy. if having to crank to enjoy I would say something is missing....

[Lenehan Audio]

It is.  You have to push reasonably hard, and measure close (eg.  1m)

 

 

These drivers can certainly take an absolute pounding, that is for sure.

Hi Dave     yes correct ! much of the ability for the ML1 to handle power has to do with the highly damped and controlled nature of the diet fed to them by the Xover.

 

But I agree those drivers can handle a whoopin alright.

 

Here's a big statement for you all >>>>>>   there has NEVER been a warranty replacement of any ML1 driver since the designs inception ! "NEVER"  In fact there has never been a warranty claim     EVER   on an ML1 whatsoever.

 

In the models entire history the total driver replacement for ML1's amounts to two sets of ML1 bass drivers whose owners power amps went DC and totally welded the voicecoils ! however there was no other damage whatsoever , the tweeters and Xovers were perfect. Damn !! if it wasn't for that I could claim they were indestructible. 

 

Know one has ever even asked for warranty ! and I'll have egg on my face of course if someone reads this and posts.         Regards Mike Lenehan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LenehanAudio

Edited August 8, 2013 by LenehanAudio

[bhobba]

I messed around with a Behringer DEQ2496 and the matching ECM microphone using a similar method but the final sound was very dry and lifeless, for the lack of a better word. I've also heard a friend using Spatial HD tuned by Clayton Shaw and the Prism Orpheus to do active speaker crossover for his Emerald Physics CS2.7s speakers which sounded very similar.. I think he eventually came to the same conclusion and is selling the system for a Raidho speaker with a passive crossover design in the end.

 

That's exactly what we need - more real world experiences.

 

Thanks

Bill 

[Guest myrantz]

Here's a big statement for you all >>>>>>   there has NEVER been a warranty replacement of any ML1 driver since the designs inception ! "NEVER"  In fact there has never been a warranty claim     EVER   on an ML1 whatsoever.

Sounds like a challenge.. too bad I love my ML1s too much to accept it ....

[hochopeper]

I'd start with ebay kits. 

 

PCB design and programming are just two of the things I do while listening to music so I'll roll my own

[Guest fordgtlover]

Since we're on the topic of testing.

 

Would anyone actually use a testing box if it could be made such that they could do it on their own without need for other people to do a blind evaluation of your own personal preference? [without more people or a look at measured data - the only conclusion is what you prefer]. The number of people doing their own shoot outs these days - would anyone ever consider using something that made that process simpler? 

 

In the above hypothetical, you choose testing protocol and you just have a switching interface that can be controlled by a computer and an application that makes a web interface for controlling switching blind and recording result. You hook up your gear, sit in your own listening room and listen to some music for a while. 

 

 

I'm building something like this for myself.

 

Colour me interested...

[davewantsmoore]

Hi Dave.   There is one big flaw in your argument. Digital still has a way to go to match analog. 

 

Me Dave?   (probably too many daves sorry)  ...  Not sure if serious.... but I do think I covered that by the whole  "if it doesn't offer any overall drawbacks"  line   

 

 

But I agree those drivers can handle a whoopin alright.

 

...   now I think about it, I DO have an amp which might go closer to 1kw into 8ohm somewhere  (EP4000)   .... and a whole carton of 832873 drivers 

 

300w did the trick for my testing though 

[davewantsmoore]

Colour me interested...

 

Me too... I have a homemade (caveman) switchbox ....   something from the 21st century would be very nice.