Mivera Audio Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Who are you asking? Me? about my DAC? or the Holo DAC? I was referring to the Holo. But any would be cool. We took that one off the word clock input pin going into our DAC chip. The only place it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mivera Audio said: The only place it matters. Agree. I dont have any of mine sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPlay Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 On 25/01/2017 at 3:21 PM, rocky500 said: Got to go out now but I am all for it. Just have to ask Pixelplay nicely if he might want to try out a Level2 to help out with someone actually having both in the same room. I'm happy to have you around to compare it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Thought I should share my personal views/observations between the two DACs, the Soekris DAC 0.05% vs Holo Spring Dac. I thought the Holo Spring DAC was much more engaging and very easy to listening to without compromise the stage and resolutions. The Soekris DAC was a little more uneasy to the ears after a while, and certainly thin and edgy. Nonetheless - Soekris was very clean, clarity and certainly pin point sharpness imaging. Things might have improved from the Soekris camp since, after all it was a year or so ago? The Soekris DAC I had listened to was from "statman" and it was the version one, I think. I later returned the DAC back to SteveM for Steve's to return back to its rightful owner. As for the Holo Spring DAC, it was from Rocky500 about several months ago, I think? If I was to pick up a DAC between the two, Holo Spring DAC is no brainer really....., and honestly if It was not for my Accuphase DC-950, I would seriously happy with the Holo Spring DAC via its add-on usb to i2s module. I think SteveM, had also listened to both. May be he can give his version of the event in a much more concise English then I could possibly can..... Will post some photos of these DACs in my shed, when I can find them. Edited January 26, 2017 by Chanh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Are you talking about the $400 Soerkris? What were you using for a power supply? The power supply is extremely important. Edited January 26, 2017 by Mivera Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Hmmm...Chanh knows the importance of power supplies... Suggest you read this... I have made it easy & started from page 62... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Yes but wonder what was used in the comparison? The DAC needs a power supply to operate and without that information the comparison doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, Mivera Audio said: Are you talking about the $400 Soerkris? What were you using for a power supply? The power supply is extremely important. In case you are unware, I was a very passionate of Soekris DAC from/at the very beginning, when he was first started up the thread in diyaudio forum. If you go back in/to his thread from the start, it is now a few years passed, you will read my posts and my participation, including my registration for a 0.01% DAC board. I never go second best... As for power supplies, I used Swiss power supplies from Per Ander. The powersupplies alone cost me more than $650 for the parts alone to build. I also used my own version of Linear power supplies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I wonder if the latest version is any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) I did audition the Statman Soekris dac which from memory(?) had a basic linear power supply and was just a bread-boarded test bed version with parts supplied from the Soekris group buy on DIYAudio.com. I do concur with Chanh's views on its sound, which was that it sounded clean and clear and technically capable, but maybe lacking musical involvement. Statman himself has now moved on to a TDA-1541 dac with all the fruit on it (FIFO bits etc) from IanCanada on DIYAudio, together with an ultimate valve output stage and capable of playing 24/96 ...his favourite dac out of twenty so far. I am currently using an unusual BB1702 r2r dac chip implementation also built by Statman. It is based on a Krell KAV-300CD player (very good), the CD replay has been bypassed, only the dac section and discreet Class A output stage utilised, USB only input via an Amenaro board plus about $500 worth of IanCanada stuff on it ...all for computer/server replay, bloody thing sounds amazing - too bad it's not mine! ;-(( A pity all these dac implementations do not do DSD replay, which gives the Holodac a jump as it will play DSD to 512kHz. Which may or may not be relevant depending on how much of your favourite music is in DSD format. Cheers, Steve. Edited January 26, 2017 by Steve M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I did audition the Statman Soekris dac which from memory(?) had a basic linear power supply and was just a bread-boarded test bed version with parts supplied from the Soekris group buy on DIYAudio.com. I do concur with Chanh's views on its sound, which was that it sounded clean and clear and technically capable, but maybe lacking musical involvement. Statman himself has now moved on to a TDA-1541 dac with all the fruit on it (FIFO bits etc) from IanCanada on DIYAudio, together with an ultimate valve output stage and capable of playing 24/96 ...his favourite dac out of twenty so far. I am currently using an unusual BB1702 r2r dac chip implementation also built by Statman. It is based on a Krell KAV-300CD player (very good), the CD replay has been bypassed, only the dac section and discreet Class A output stage utilised, USB only input via an Amenaro board plus about $500 worth of IanCanada stuff on it ...all for computer/server replay, bloody thing sounds amazing - too bad it's not mine! ;-(( A pity all these dac implementations do not do DSD replay, which gives the Holodac a jump as it will play DSD to 512kHz. Which may or may not be relevant depending on how much of your favourite music is in DSD format. Cheers, Steve. When the Statman DAC came around to Chanh's place he upgraded the PS with a high end Swiss unit for his audition. Too bad he didn't leave the high end supply on the DAC before continuing the tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 6:18 PM, Mivera Audio said: Then we have genuine salt of the earth companies who build very high quality European build DAC's for much cheaper and nobody talks about them. Seems a bit fishy..... Still waiting to be enlightened, fishy or not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Peter_F said: Still waiting to be enlightened, fishy or not.... The $390 Soekris was the DAC. Not a DIY version of an early implementation of the board. The actual DAC1101 unit. Then after than the Vinshine would be a good place to look. No BS hyping up stuff that doesn't matter from them. Just solid facts on the power supply implementation, and a very nice case. Things I like to see, but unfortunately generate much less hype among the average laymen. Edited February 2, 2017 by Mivera Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Maybe just maybe there is more to the Holo Dac than just hype. There are lot of peoples opinions floating on the net that have tried it and compared it to other Dacs. Sometimes a product does impress you when you try it out yourself. Word of mouth can be a strong tool if you do build something that is actually very good. Even the guy from Uptone Audio chimed in recently. "For a production DAC with terrific innovations (compensated R2R ladders, discrete DSD handling), beautiful chassis, flexible inputs (I2S, yay!), and a hard to believe great price, the HOLO Spring should be on everyone's short list. Its USB input is just average, and that is all I have been using so far (but with some prototype advance USB "fixers"), so I do plan to feed it this year with I2S from a board with really good clocks. Not that I encourage modding, but I do think the Spring screams for a serious clock upgrade. Bet a pair of Crystek CCHD-575s would take it from great to out-of-this-world. " 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, rocky500 said: Maybe just maybe there is more to the Holo Dac than just hype. There are lot of peoples opinions floating on the net that have tried it and compared it to other Dacs. Sometimes a product does impress you when you try it out yourself. Word of mouth can be a strong tool if you do build something that is actually very good. Even the guy from Uptone Audio chimed in recently. "For a production DAC with terrific innovations (compensated R2R ladders, discrete DSD handling), beautiful chassis, flexible inputs (I2S, yay!), and a hard to believe great price, the HOLO Spring should be on everyone's short list. Its USB input is just average, and that is all I have been using so far (but with some prototype advance USB "fixers"), so I do plan to feed it this year with I2S from a board with really good clocks. Not that I encourage modding, but I do think the Spring screams for a serious clock upgrade. Bet a pair of Crystek CCHD-575s would take it from great to out-of-this-world. " I suppose it's all about what's used as a reference point. This is why I was wondering who's compared it with commercial Soekris implementations. I haven't seen any comparisons from any trusted sources comparing it to any other discrete R-2R DAC's at or below it's price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 22 hours ago, Mivera Audio said: I suppose it's all about what's used as a reference point. This is why I was wondering who's compared it with commercial Soekris implementations. I haven't seen any comparisons from any trusted sources comparing it to any other discrete R-2R DAC's at or below it's price point. I am with you w.r.t "a reference point". DAC's technologies these days are so advance and refined, most of them will sound astonishingly good without a reference. The moment you have a reference in place, personal preference and affordability kick in. So really, much of audio is about your financial position, target budget, and personal's preferences. Don't you think so? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I am with you w.r.t "a reference point". DAC's technologies these days are so advance and refined, most of them will sound astonishingly good without a reference. The moment you have a reference in place, personal preference and affordability kick in. So really, much of audio is about your financial position, target budget, and personal's preferences. Don't you think so? Yeah this is why I was thinking since the 2 commercial discrete R-2R DAC's I shared are much less expensive than the Holo, the Holo would be a great reference point to compare with side by side. However when folks who are in love with the discrete R-2R sound, use non discrete R-2R DAC's as a reference point to compare with the Holo, it doesn't hold much weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) Another comparison from a guy who owns the Metrum Pavane. http://earphiles.org/index.php/2017/02/04/metrum-pavane-vs-holo-spring-dac/ Edited February 5, 2017 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 How many people on SNA have a Holo dac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 6 hours ago, Nap250 said: How many people on SNA have a Holo dac? I suppose I better own up, I bought one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPlay Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 yup 1 here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Looks like the MSB Select DAC 2 still proves R-2R tech still has some legs!: http://www.head-fi.org/t/838570/possible-end-game-dynamic-headphone-rig-focal-utopia-mivera-superstack I wonder how the spring compares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) I would be more interested in how cheaper R-2R Dacs go. There seems to be quite a few popping up and more on the way. Others may be able to get into the R-2R goodness for less now. Another Holo review http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-1-base-model/reviews/18099 Edited February 28, 2017 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivera Audio Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I would be more interested in how cheaper R-2R Dacs go. There seems to be quite a few popping up and more on the way. Others may be able to get into the R-2R goodness for less now. Another Holo reviewhttp://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-1-base-model/reviews/18099 As far as I'm concerned the MSB Select 2 is the best of the best when it comes to R-2R. So using it as a reference would be ideal. Cost aside you need a known reference in audio in order for any feedback to carry weight. I know some think you can get MSB Select quality from $2000-$3000 USD DAC's, but if so it would be cool to see some real world comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenelectro Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I haven't had time to follow this thread in detail so apologies if I'm rehashing info. Measurement wise, the Holo is definitely a cut above the rest of these latest R2R implementations, for a discrete R2R it measures superbly. FWIW, interestingly the designer mentions here https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/ most of these implementations are not strictly R2R like the old sign magnitude BB DACs but some form of segmented architecture like the later BB DACs. The Holo S DAC has additional circuitry to further linearize the DAC and it shows. The designer of this DAC is obviously very knowledgeable, an amazing effort on his part. Having said all the above I don't see any real advantage in using any of these discrete 'R2R' designs over the latest chip DAC's or for that matter a unity weighted discrete DS design. You are constantly fighting R2R linearity problems and switching glitch energy. One of the tell tale signs is the spray of upper odd order harmonics that they all have. The biggest disadvantage of chip implementations is all the extra 'baggage' that comes with the chip. Digital filters, ASRC (ESS Sabre) etc etc. If you can bypass most of this, get the clocking right, provide really good analog stages and PS then DS DAC's are actually capable of higher performance. However that's just my opinion - as we all know, there are lot's of R2R fans out there and good luck to them. Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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