Ascension Audio (Adelaide Speakers) Owners & Discussion Thread

[mattd2308]

14 minutes ago, weavzy said:

I bought my summoners without hearing them.

I love em...

Great photo.

What model are they Weavzy?

Matt

[weavzy]

11 minutes ago, mattd2308 said:

Great photo.

What model are they Weavzy?

Matt

 

Mine are the 1293PRTL. 

[dralj]

It was getting quite late last night, did one round and I can say that both sets of speakers are magnificent.

Would like to do another round tonight with some different music before I voice my opinion.

 

[rantan]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

One way to buy speakers.

Fixed

[digitalhome]

Not a fan of the cheap and nasty build quality of the Adelaide loudspeakers (grill and fabric, baffle and badging etc.) but his cabinet maker sure does build a mean box, 70's design withstanding.

[rantan]

21 hours ago, dralj said:

It's been a while since my last post.

I have been enjoying my Timberwolves and haven't been overly compelled to bring the ML2s back out until I could heed the advice of folks here and get some makeshift stands. I previously have used some bar stools that are suprisingly quite sturdy despite their appearance at my other house. They will not equal a dedicated speaker stand that is designed for these speakers, which I have seen and heard in Mike's listening room, with great pleasure, but they will go a long way toward doing the job. Nonetheless, they are now off the shelf of the entertainment unit with some room to breathe. I would like to get rid of the entertainment unit but it is too heavy on my own with thick carpet, so like in most listening rooms there are compromises. And yes, the speakers do sound much better on the stands and further out from the wall. Much better bass especially.

 

 

I have just listened to the ML2s and they sound much better on stands and always sound fabulous.

 

 

 

 

 

.............and the better the stands the better the ML2 speakers will sound. It really shouldn't even be a contest. As you correctly say, they are very different types of speakers but class and quality should be readily apparent.

Edited December 22, 2016 by rantan

[rantan]

7 minutes ago, digitalhome said:

Not a fan of the cheap and nasty build quality of the Adelaide loudspeakers (grill and fabric, baffle and badging etc.) but his cabinet maker sure does build a mean box, 70's design withstanding.

 

The cabinets are OK. Just don't look at the crossover

[rocky500]

6 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

.............and the better the stands the better the ML2 speakers will sound. It really shouldn't even be a contest. As you correctly say, they are very different types of speakers but class and quality should be readily apparent.

Thats a pretty big call.

 

It could just be the larger speakers work better in his space. 

 

[rantan]

@rocky500

 

It is certainly true that larger speakers will work better in larger rooms but better speakers are simply that........................better

[rocky500]

7 minutes ago, rantan said:

@rocky500

 

It is certainly true that larger speakers will work better in larger rooms but better speakers are simply that........................better

I am definitely in the Lenehan camp being that I think they are incredible speakers.

I have found you do need to experiment with your other components as they really can show each upgrade better than most. Get it right and they are hard to beat.

Edited December 22, 2016 by rocky500

[ufo]

13 hours ago, Luc said:

Only way to buy speakers.

1000 % agreed, I can't think of any other way

Edited December 22, 2016 by ufo

[ufo]

11 hours ago, rantan said:

Fixed

[ufo]

11 hours ago, rantan said:

 

The cabinets are OK. Just don't look at the crossover

Same goes for the drivers.

Edited December 22, 2016 by ufo

[dralj]

Apologies for the delay. My family has celebrated Christmas a day early.

I have given both sets of speakers another series of tiresome speakers changes, my guns are now massive.

My girlfriend sat in with the me the second night for another opinion on our A/B comparisons.

I don't know anything about the quality of cabinetry, what crossovers are used and what are good drivers or not.

I am guided by the opinions of other SNAers but most importantly my own ears.

My own reference speakers are Aslan Acoustics R3s (which are at my other house) so my ears have a good reference point for what is a top of the range sounding speaker. For the past couple of years, I listened to my ML2s with the same Parasound Amplifier and the NAD m51, only recently have I thrown the better preamplifier back in. This was in a smaller space but the listening position was only a little closer than currently in my larger listening space.

 

Both speakers are quality speakers, based on my ears and I have spent many happy hours listening to the ML2s. The ML2 References are very accurate and revealing and with them (and as always) I am drawn to high quality recordings and there is always a good dose of electronic music (CD or Beatport downloaded flac/aiff) which typically is well recorded that I listen too. These speakers do very well with electronic and seem to be highly responsive, punchy and have good doses of bass to let you want to let rip on the dance floor. I find that sometimes with some other types of music especially when there are lots of instruments playing at once, something suffers.  The instrument separation seems to fade. My logical brain tells me that such a small woofer and it associated tweeter, irrespective of the goodness in the cabinet can’t cope with everything that is thrown at them. When there is a call for good amounts of bass in a song at reasonable volume (not outlandish volume), the higher frequencies tends to sound a bit harsh to my ear.

The Timberwolves match the ML2s on many levels. The cabinets are reasonable quality but nowhere near the finish of the ML2s . Any floorstander this size would be gigantic in a small space, luckily they are not in a small space. At times they seem not quite as accurate but regularly they seem as accurate if not more so. They certainly seem to do most things with ease, nothing seems like a struggle.  Busy passages roll out with greater amounts of instrument/frequency separation. The sound stage seems easily bigger in the vertical sense (not sure if this is just a product of physical spreading out of the drivers etc) but seems more detailed in the global sense. Bass is much more effortless and easily goes down lower than the ML2s, unsurprisingly. The high frequencies seem more pleasant, less harsh and better matched to the mid range and bass, this is easily more noticeable at medium to louder volumes.

Overall, I love both speakers. Both I and my girlfriend agree, the Timberwolves are musically versatile, as revealing, give better separation and surprisingly more musical. Not by massive amounts, but consistently significant amounts across a large genre of music. Whatever the electronics are inside the cabinet, they seem to be tweaked optimally.

 

Whilst, second hand the ML2s cost me 3400 and the Adelaide Speakers 900 delivered, I won’t likely sell either as they are both awesome speakers but I love the latter in my new space. If anyone would like to challenge what my ears tell me, feel free to bring your own kit (and dedicated speaker stands) over to experiment for yourself. For me this has been an enjoyable purchase/experiment and for anyone  who wants to buy either speakers, hope this has helped!

Edited December 24, 2016 by dralj

[davewantsmoore]

11 hours ago, dralj said:

I don't know anything about the quality of cabinetry, what crossovers are used and what are good drivers or not.

 

 

In a broad sense, what AS do is use a (very) limited budget to focus on what is most important.

 

Cabinets and crossover are well designed but using modest materials.   Drivers are excellent (ie. the ones used in speakers which have 'new car' price tags) ....  without getting getting into silly $ models.

[luke352]

On ?23?/?12?/?2016 at 9:50 AM, ufo said:

Same goes for the drivers.

 

 

The Lenehan use an $80 mid in a combined midrange/bass role.

 

The As in this thread use a $55 mid in a midrange role only.

 

I'm sure some of the cheaper AS speakers use some cheap and ready driver but I'm sure this and many other AS speakers are using drivers of similar value to many other companies that charge considerably more for there product. 

[AudioGeek]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

 

In a broad sense, what AS do is use a (very) limited budget to focus on what is most important.

 

Cabinets and crossover are well designed but using modest materials.   Drivers are excellent (ie. the ones used in speakers which have 'new car' price tags) ....  without getting getting into silly $ models.

So remove the passive crossover, run them active with deqx as the heart and you have a world class speaker?

Similar approach to Orpheus speakers

[rocky500]

@dralj Since you mention you are keeping the ML2's, you should keep your eye out for some good quality stands for them.

I even see them pop up on SNA from time to time for good prices.

 

eg, something like these these would be great too.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by rocky500

[Assisi]

On 22/12/2016 at 11:17 PM, rantan said:

 

.............and the better the stands the better the ML2 speakers will sound. It really shouldn't even be a contest. As you correctly say, they are very different types of speakers but class and quality should be readily apparent.

@dralj

I think that @rantan  had something slightly more serious in mind when he suggested that you use better stands than what you are using.  As well the stands you are using are probably not locked to the floor as they are on carpet.  You are not doing justice to the ML2s. 

My stands for my ML2s weigh 53 kgs each plus they are spiked to a bamboo panel.  The floor is solid parquetry.  If I could spike the stands to the floor I would expect a more beneficial outcome.  The stands are about removal of resonance.  I would be surprised if the stands that you are using would be of much benefit except that you have improved their position relative to the walls.

How have you connected the speakers to the stands?

John

[davewantsmoore]

11 hours ago, AudioGeek said:

So remove the passive crossover, run them active with deqx as the heart and you have a world class speaker?

 

 

Perhaps.   Replacing the passive crossover network, with a different filter (eg. an active one) .... is the task of designing a crossover (which is basically the task of designing the entire speaker)  .... and the question is can you (or the DEQX) improve the existing filter / speaker?

 

I have a Summoner and a Sentinel model in the collection, which I could try this with .... one year, when I have time.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by davewantsmoore

[rantan]

11 hours ago, luke352 said:

 

 

The Lenehan use an $80 mid in a combined midrange/bass role.

 

The As in this thread use a $55 mid in a midrange role only.

 

I'm sure some of the cheaper AS speakers use some cheap and ready driver but I'm sure this and many other AS speakers are using drivers of similar value to many other companies that charge considerably more for there product. 

 

Driver cost doesn't even tell half the story. The implementation of drivers and crossover is critical for the end result and the cost of drivers is not especially important in the scheme of the total design.  Using more ( or equally ) expensive drivers  with a minimum standard cabinet and crossover does not guarantee superior performance

[luke352]

11 hours ago, rantan said:

 

Driver cost doesn't even tell half the story. The implementation of drivers and crossover is critical for the end result and the cost of drivers is not especially important in the scheme of the total design.  Using more ( or equally ) expensive drivers  with a minimum standard cabinet and crossover does not guarantee superior performance

 

 

I realise that, that was kinda my point. 

 

The poster I quoted was commenting along the lines of how cheap looking the AS speaker drivers are.  My point was the drivers in the AS speakers are really no cheaper in day to day terms than those in the Lenehan ML2 (appears to use a Peerless HDS a fairly decent driver) and that AS in this case weren't using a $10 driver and the ML2 a $250 driver (maybe the tweeter is I don't know).

 

The fact is both speakers are built to very different price points, the ML's have had no expense spared in the cabinet and xover design utilising simple good quality drivers.  The AS as well appears to have used quality drivers but without the same no costs spared approach to the cabinet and xover, of course as long as these elements are properly implemented the speaker is still capable of performing quite admirably.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by luke352

[rantan]

4 hours ago, luke352 said:

 

The fact is both speakers are built to very different price points, the ML's have had no expense spared in the cabinet and xover design utilising simple good quality drivers.  The AS as well appears to have used quality drivers but without the same no costs spared approach to the cabinet and xover, of course as long as these elements are properly implemented the speaker is still capable of performing quite admirably.

 

 

 

Couldn't and won't disagree.

Both a Hyundai and a Porsche perform and function quite admirably. They serve different needs for different people but you really wouldn't compare or cross shop them

[davewantsmoore]

14 hours ago, rantan said:

Driver cost doesn't even tell half the story. The implementation of drivers and crossover is critical for the end result and the cost of drivers is not especially important in the scheme of the total design.  Using more ( or equally ) expensive drivers  with a minimum standard cabinet and crossover does not guarantee superior performance

 

No it doesn't .... but the most important part of the speaker isn't a part cost, or even the part performance (once it is above a safe level).... it's the speaker and crossover design.   This can be sold for as much or little as they want.   This is IMVHO where the "bang for buck" can really shine.

[rantan]

14 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

No it doesn't .... but the most important part of the speaker isn't a part cost, or even the part performance (once it is above a safe level).... it's the speaker and crossover design.   This can be sold for as much or little as they want.   This is IMVHO where the "bang for buck" can really shine.

 

Agreed, although this is what I was getting at anyway, without your degree of tech expertise but on the right track definitely