The Power Line Conditioner Thread

[Quest88]

Maybe I am lucky.. my hifi area has 3 rows of power plugs which are all different power lines.

 

1st row socket = not dedicated line, but I tested is not connected to any other power socket in the house. (test by on/off at the db box)

2nd row socket = not dedicated line, but only connected to 1 other power socket which i never use.

3rd row socket = dedicated line, with its own connection from outside the house to MCB.

 

Can I shift the first row socket to its own 'MCB switch', or is it deem not much improvement to do this since it is already not connected in parallel to anything else?

[naimster]

Bro Quest, when you disable everything connected to a line leaving just 1 "usable point", it is "almost as good" as "dedicated".

Not quite yet.....do the extra step... Make sure it's the 1st socket from cb, not the 2nd else it will go through another termination before flowing into the Hifi system. ;)

[Quest88]

Not quite yet.....do the extra step... Make sure it's the 1st socket from cb, not the 2nd else it will go through another termination before flowing into the Hifi system. ;)

let's say it's all direct from cb.

any difference between splitting it out to have its own 'mcb switch'? i don't know the term..

looking at the picture above as an example, the 'mcb switch' to me is the one on the extreme left which control all the smaller db switches. (i.e. u turn off this mcb switch, then all the smaller switches all are power off)

 

now my dedicated line has both its own mcb switch and its own db switch (1:1).

the non-dedicated line only has its own db switch, and control by a master mcb switch which runs the rest of the whole house.

 

any improvement adding one more mcb switch to the non-dedicated line or good enough already?

[bigtree]

A lot of ppl asking how many numbers of direct line is enuff.

 

Try this:

 

[Guest powerman]

For me, 2 direct lines from 2 CB is enough.

I can live with 2 DBs, provided I can have it before I move in, and not after.

I can get all I ever wanted from 2 CB, why backside itchy.

I don't even need the 3rd line...

 

This is because each of the mono block does not require a dedicated 32amp RCBO (more flexible and provides better protection than CB/MCB) :)

[Guest powerman]

 

It will be even hi-end if replaces all the MCBs with RCBOs. Already comes so far why not push to the limit.

[naimster]

Like giraffe said if your non dedicated line is not being shared it's almost as good as having a dedicated line coming from a mcb, so no need to add. My earlier point is that if it's a non dedicated line, you would have one or more sockets wired in daisy chain. So, just use the 1st socket in the daisy chain as the 2nd would go through additional termination.

 

any improvement adding one more mcb switch to the non-dedicated line or good enough already?

[Quest88]

Like giraffe said if your non dedicated line is not being shared it's almost as good as having a dedicated line coming from a mcb, so no need to add. My earlier point is that if it's a non dedicated line, you would have one or more sockets wired in daisy chain. So, just use the 1st socket in the daisy chain as the 2nd would go through additional termination.

ok good to know. so no need additional mcb switch... i thought that even with that, the db switch might be affected by being on the same mcb switch as the rest of the house.

 

i will just swap out the power sockets and test.. just did one more test yesterday

 

Option 1: Using 2 separate lines, with 2 power strip. Standard UK plug and adapter was used for one of the lines.

Option 2: Using 1 dedicated line with US plugs, with 2 power strip.

 

In my tests, Option 2 sounds better.. so in my setup, connector difference is greater than splitting lines.

[Quest88]

Bro Quest, you are very close liao.

 

When I see UK plug, my mindset is : DEAD music, no need to listen. kekekekek

Ho gun yew, please remember. Always use US sockets. Gold fuse I also don't like.

 

Option 1 and Option 2, IMHO - should be small difference only. Some systems, difficult to hear diff.

But split 2 lines, ALL systems can hear diff. 

Try Option 3: 2 lines with 2 US strips, you should have a stage same like in 881 concert.

In my setup the difference is quite clear actually.. once I use UK plug, dynamics went out the window although maybe slightly more natural. very hard to tell since the negatives are too strong.

 

This is regardless if I use the UK plug line for pre/power section or PC/DAC section. Both sounds the same.

 

Think I go buy a second US socket to test test this weekend..

[Quest88]

Bro, you have 3 lines, buy second US socket only meh, what about the third line.

You just want to waste it meh.

 

If you really don't know what to do with the third line, at least can 3 choose 2, den got 3 combinations to play with.

Each combination, can interchange the D/A, so total 6 combinations.

Out of the 6, if you can choose the best combination, that means you GOLDEN EARS liao.

Can open GOLDEN EARS SCHOOL, share with other bros.

Good for XP bros.

 

"Golden ears" can get from training wan. You have to believe me. 

i still need one line for miscellaneous stuff like my projector screen cable, hdmi selector box, external harddisk, xbox, etc. :)

 

i might also change the 3rd line socket so i can put the PC on this misc line, and see if any improvement versus putting on same line as DAC.. see how. take one step at a time.

 

my guess is still lose out to putting PC on the conditioner.. unless i am willing to spend again.

[Doggie Howser]

Ah I found another benefit to my PurePower tonight.

 

:)

 

It's spring and that means thunder and lightning storms. Which results in the power tripping.

 

Which thankfully with the PP means it never is an issue for me :)

 

Even when the lights went off.

 

At least my projector was protected.

 

[Guest durianlover88]

Yishun here has got the most lightnings in SGP, and it is true as many a times - because I live at top floor corner - my unit has got a few trips. Hehe lucky me the conditioners works like a gem, every trip they react in double quick time :)

[5th Avenue]

Hi all bro,

 

Looking ard for conditioner.... any recommendation?

 

Also is isolation transformer necessary before the conditioner..?  ???

 

Cheers.. :) :)

[Quest88]

Hi all bro,

 

Looking ard for conditioner.... any recommendation?

 

Also is isolation transformer necessary before the conditioner..?  ???

 

Cheers.. :) :)

Depends how bad is the electricity in your house and if your equipment has any elaborate filtering.. remember the key is simplicity.

A high end power strip from Orb or Sound Application can beat something like the purepower, but vice versa can also occur in some instances if power lines are bad or equipment has little filtering.

If have the funds, maybe a low powered regenerator for front-end electronics like your tube pre and a good power strip for power amp.

If no funds, lower range conditioners like Audio Magic are nice for source to me, but you probably need to plug in power amp to wall.

 

As usual, best to try for yourself what works in your home. Look at my list to check out some of the product lines and start narrowing and testing. :)

 

IMO no need isolation transformer before conditioner. It has its uses but also limits current, unless you get a really huge one.

[dXter]

My non-audiophile brand isolator / passive filter to isolate the local stuff (cable TV box, tv, etc) from the audio equipment. Works great. 4 levels of filter to separate digital from analogue equipment. ;D

 

Belkin AV Isolator Home Cinema Surge Protector

[Doggie Howser]

Yishun here has got the most lightnings in SGP, and it is true as many a times - because I live at top floor corner - my unit has got a few trips. Hehe lucky me the conditioners works like a gem, every trip they react in double quick time :)

 

Projector needs an added protection. Need to cycle down/cool down prior to powering off :)

 

 

[Quest88]

actually i am curious how does a power conditioner like sound application work when handling power trip..

doesn't it just cut off electricity immediately like any other power strip?

i do know it probably protects in case of high surges.. but so does your circuit breaker.

 

only something like purepower has added protection like doggiehowser's example.

[Doggie Howser]

Quest, have you ever tried PP -> conditioner?

 

I'm not sure if you found connecting to PP > connecting to wall socket but it was the case in my system. I found the noise floor lowered a fair bit.

 

So if SA conditioner works well with the wall socket, wouldn't it work better with the PP? :)

 

 

[Quest88]

Quest, have you ever tried PP -> conditioner?

 

I'm not sure if you found connecting to PP > connecting to wall socket but it was the case in my system. I found the noise floor lowered a fair bit.

 

So if SA conditioner works well with the wall socket, wouldn't it work better with the PP? :)

I'm using Orb for the moment, not SA.. :)

 

I also agree purepower is quiet in background but think this isn't the most important thing we are looking for.

 

Anyway, I preferred going from the Orb Kyoto then to the purepower, not the other way round which sounded abit odd to me. In theory, we should keep the most 'high current' item nearer to wall socket which seem to be the case. Secondly, I find purepower more subject to emi/rf than most people would think, and cleaning it up before it goes into the regenerator also makes sense though abit of an overkill. In theory, purepower's output is very clean already and thus but I feel performance is only affected by emi/rf from the input.. I personally can hear differences if you run on battery vs the wall.

 

But both ways, purepower lost versus direct connection to the orb, even for source (for my current gear - note my earlier comments of plinius being more noisy on passive strips vs purepower previously, though not the chord). Though not quite fair comparison as the purepower is half the price of the kyoto.. :) I did repeat this test with some other products and in some instances, adding a second product may help for source and dacs. Maybe not so for power amps. I may explore this later on.

 

I would think it makes more sense to buy a single higher end product if wanting to do daisy chain though.. the only reason i'd try to keep purepower in the chain is if i need to prevent black/brown outs like you.

 

The other option is to modify the purepower with better parts which I think some guys have done.. :)

[noblewolf]

im a newbie and quite new to what these are all about..

 

i have a tube amplifier that only has a marking (220V AC not 220V-240VAC). my electrical engineer friend told me to use power conditioners to protect the equipment against current surge that may spoil the transformer's primary mains. crap, wth is he talking about im totally out of the trade (if its about concrete, steel and structures... heck we can talk all day).

 

i used to have an APC Uninteruppted power supply in my office, i read the manual (yeah, im that type of guy... reading mauals), and it says it protects against total power failure (not applicable), SURGE AND SAG, HARMONIC DISTORTION, FREQUENCY INSTABILITY, NOISE AND SPIKES..

 

does it ring a bell? how about use these whatever power conditioners after the UPS?

[Quest88]

im a newbie and quite new to what these are all about..

 

i have a tube amplifier that only has a marking (220V AC not 220V-240VAC). my electrical engineer friend told me to use power conditioners to protect the equipment against current surge that may spoil the transformer's primary mains. crap, wth is he talking about im totally out of the trade (if its about concrete, steel and structures... heck we can talk all day).

 

i used to have an APC Uninteruppted power supply in my office, i read the manual (yeah, im that type of guy... reading mauals), and it says it protects against total power failure (not applicable), SURGE AND SAG, HARMONIC DISTORTION, FREQUENCY INSTABILITY, NOISE AND SPIKES..

 

does it ring a bell? how about use these whatever power conditioners after the UPS?

There was an old thread that talks about this I believe.. basically many UPS are not audiophile grade meaning the tolerance for the sine wave reproduction is not as high. I believe lower end UPS also output square wave which is fine for PCs but not so good for audio equipment.

 

While conditioners can help emi/rf and other issues, it cannot solve a wrong sine wave, so what you suggest may not work imo.

 

In Singapore we tend to have high voltage but at a relatively stable range. Some stabiliser or isolators can be used to bring down the voltage if necesary, but if you intend to protect against brown/black outs then that's a different story. Something like the purepower might be more useful. Read their website for more info on common power gremlins as I find it a good place to start.

http://www.purepoweraps.com/gremlins.htm

[Highonthehog]

My non-audiophile brand isolator / passive filter to isolate the local stuff (cable TV box, tv, etc) from the audio equipment. Works great. 4 levels of filter to separate digital from analogue equipment. ;D

 

Belkin AV Isolator Home Cinema Surge Protector

 

 

Where can i purchase the Belkin AV Isolator Home Cinema Surge Protector?

 

Did a search on Belkin SG webby, but not shown in their site.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[dXter]

Where can i purchase the Belkin AV Isolator Home Cinema Surge Protector?

 

Did a search on Belkin SG webby, but not shown in their site.

 

Thanks

 

 

Can get from HN for about $499/=

I bought mine from UK for about $180 after shipping (took some time to arrive). UK is selling at about 50pounds.

[Quest88]

Just to keep this thread updated, I am now a believer of Giraffe's theory, and must thank him for his posts which made me consider this approach.

Two lines are definitely better than one, even when using two conditioners.

 

I finally changed both of my lines with the same power socket (orb), so AB testing can be done.

The difference between using single dedicated line or two dedicated lines is definitely discernible. The biggest difference is dynamics, less glare in the high freq, and the overall flow of music is smoother.

 

Will I hear much difference if going for three lines..? :P

 

I also tested different wall plates today and I can hear a difference.. but the margin of difference is much less than changing wall socket or using two dedicated lines.

[Quest88]

Finally....................

(and it's not my theory, I picked up from Jim Weil 5 years ago - never looked back.)

 

Correction:

2 lines without any conditioner is better than 1 line with 2 conditioners.

 

In general:

Most condioners take away the sonics, use distributor is safer.

A good quality distributor has highly polished cables, star distributed.

 

Nordost, Crystal, Karma, etc are all distrbuters, not conditioners. All are bladdy expensive.

 

You have 2 ORBS?  or intend to have 2 ORBS eventually?

Takes time to do proper AB!

The last time I just hook up digital to another socket, there is some improvement but some negative as well due to different wall socket, where one was inferior to the second.

 

The Orb I have is a two-in-one, remember? So no need another one already.

I decide on this rather than two completely separate Orb, because of cost savings.

I figure eventually if I want to pay for two separate high end distributor like two SA ($20k range?), I can evaluate again.