Guest durianlover88 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use power over Ethernet on my hifi powerline, Mou Xi wor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use power over Ethernet on my hifi powerline, Mou Xi wor.. Its strange but audiophiles have been trying to cleanup their power and refining it yet on the other hand ok with ethernet devices that inject high frequency ac waves into their powerlines... If powercords make a difference based on their shielding strategies and inductances/capacitances, one would wonder how harmless or benign a homeplug would be coursing through the ac line within the heart of the powercords. Any input on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I used Power over Ethernet in my old place. I don't recall ever getting buzzing noises before. There is some chatter around on the internet about home plugs and rf interference etc.. Perhaps affecting there can be effects on sensitive parts of a hifi system? Maybe someone with a golden ear and transparent setup can try some experiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest durianlover88 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 A good power conditioner is really critical. The damage by these home plugs, etc - does get cleaned up, but yet not impact hifi sonics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigster Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 How does the CSE TW2200 compare with the Sine? Anyone has any experience with both? Or do they work differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The first is possible to test again, since I have separate db switch, just switch off everything else.. but I still feel it is from outside the house. I don't think it is ground as I mentioned before. I can create ground problem by plugging in equipment differently to different power lines but it results in a different noise. Ground noise is constant. My 'eee' sound comes and goes.. sometimes many mins can pass without the sound but at other times it is every minute. To me this sounds like more like a EMI/RF related issue than ground. Does it happen if u change the length of cables used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks guys for all the helpful queries.. these are my current conclusions after a morning of quick testing. The high level of the noise is currently found to be a sum of the parts rather than just one problem. 1. My power line does have some noise. I still haven't identified the source. But my main issue has been this noise is amplified along the way. The original level of noise is actually not as high as I thought. I still feel this noise is external to the house for now. 2. The device that seems to picks up the power line noise the most is my pre-amp.. this might be the one that is amplifying it the most. The second culprit is probably my PC. 3. All my audio equipment does emit noise and could be affecting each other. This was probably why Gigawatt PC-3 helped the most due to zones. After today's test I find this is actually a small problem if the power line noise was not picked up by one device first, else it seems to be a lot worse. (e.g. PC + pre-amp picking up and affecting each other.) Isolation of zones helps the most here and this is relatively easy to do. 4. My XLR connectors are very close to the IEC input of my pre and amps. I believe this causes some noise to be elevated, esp when I use a 13-20A converter. Not using a converter seems to help, same as using shielded XLR cables. 5. Giraffe might be right in that some of my power cords might be emitting EMI/RF.. my suspect is the lessloss as it might be the least shielded. Still testing this portion. I am now running my entire hifi through a cheap $10 distributor, stock power cords through non-dedicated line with PC separate, and the power line noise is about as low as it was with the Gigawatt PF-2.. funny. :P I'm still testing if the dedicated line actually has a higher noise level than the normal one, but the initial tests show no.. Add: The other difference is the polarity.. need to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 If rf emitted is to be picked up efficiently, the length of the "antennae" is a factor of the wavelength of the waves, like harmonics.. Conspiracy theory?? Maybe a frequency emitter is sweeping nearby... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv4nature Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks guys for all the helpful queries.. these are my current conclusions after a morning of quick testing. The high level of the noise is currently found to be a sum of the parts rather than just one problem. 1. My power line does have some noise. I still haven't identified the source. But my main issue has been this noise is amplified along the way. The original level of noise is actually not as high as I thought. I still feel this noise is external to the house for now. 2. The device that seems to picks up the power line noise the most is my pre-amp.. this might be the one that is amplifying it the most. The second culprit is probably my PC. 3. All my audio equipment does emit noise and could be affecting each other. This was probably why Gigawatt PC-3 helped the most due to zones. After today's test I find this is actually a small problem if the power line noise was not picked up by one device first, else it seems to be a lot worse. (e.g. PC + pre-amp picking up and affecting each other.) Isolation of zones helps the most here and this is relatively easy to do. 4. My XLR connectors are very close to the IEC input of my pre and amps. I believe this causes some noise to be elevated, esp when I use a 13-20A converter. Not using a converter seems to help, same as using shielded XLR cables. 5. Giraffe might be right in that some of my power cords might be emitting EMI/RF.. my suspect is the lessloss as it might be the least shielded. Still testing this portion. I am now running my entire hifi through a cheap $10 distributor, stock power cords through non-dedicated line with PC separate, and the power line noise is about as low as it was with the Gigawatt PF-2.. funny. :P I'm still testing if the dedicated line actually has a higher noise level than the normal one, but the initial tests show no.. Add: The other difference is the polarity.. need to test. Sounds like there may be various locations in your hifi chain that are leaking and picking up RF interference. Most effective way is to get one of these "cable sniffing" device and identifying the various cables, plugs and chassis that are non/ poorly shielded. When you have fully shielded your system, the noise floor of your system will be reduced tremendously, and most of the high freq interferences should be gone too. http://www.industrial-needs.com/technical-data/multifunction-wall-scanner-pce-stm3.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 After another day of swapping in and out, I lowered the noise even further.. the final piece was actually a grounding issue on my pre-amp which I am getting sorted out. Now time to start talking about power conditioners again! I will likely be testing out the Orb Kamakura soon once pre-amp resolved.. looks impressive in person. :) http://orb-audio.jp/english/kamakura.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcking1624705747 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Now time to start talking about power conditioners again! I will likely be testing out the Orb Kamakura soon once pre-amp resolved.. looks impressive in person. :) http://orb-audio.jp/english/kamakura.htm Looks like it's just a power distributor. I don't see any "power conditioning" circuits. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Looks like it's just a power distributor. I don't see any "power conditioning" circuits. :P my mistake, yes, it is just a normal power distributor. :) am just looking for performance. so far my experience with power distributors seem to be better than elaborate conditioners - probably because the equipment i own already have their own filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 my mistake, yes, it is just a normal power distributor. :) am just looking for performance. so far my experience with power distributors seem to be better than elaborate conditioners - probably because the equipment i own already have their own filters. That has been my belief and experience too. Better sources (incl preamps) have more elaborate filtering and regulation.... That's why I have never bothered with conditioners...just direct to wall and use high quality plugs and sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonchew38 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 My XDS1 with 4 Quantums QX4s is nothing without a conditioner. Can show you. This is REAL POISON. I can change your mindset. You only need to bring your ears. Hi Bro Giraffe, Have you ever tried the quantum symphony pro? does placement of this say near equipment or wires has any effect or the effect is via the passive cleaning up of the electronic circuitry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimi1624705950 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 My XDS1 with 4 Quantums QX4s is nothing without a conditioner. Can show you. This is REAL POISON. I can change your mindset. You only need to bring your ears. I use $10 wall sockets. 2 of them. The XDS1 has very elaborate and sophisticated power supply inside. Not good enough wor. Bro, would be interested to hear if you've tried out more expensive sockets. I guess many audiophiles are not happy to do so as they will need to get their hands dirty :D I can't help but think that you will hear some improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtree Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Bro, would be interested to hear if you've tried out more expensive sockets. I guess many audiophiles are not happy to do so as they will need to get their hands dirty :D I can't help but think that you will hear some improvement Expensive sockets got coloration. I have one rhodium, gold and a normal hubbel outlet for my 3 direct line. End up all switch back to normal hubbel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonchew38 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 1 x Nordost Qx4 = 4 Symphony pros. My system actually has 36 Symphony pros. (1 x Qx2 + 7 x Qx4s + 1 x DIY Qx6) where does the quantum symphony pro need to be placed to get best mileage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Agree with Giraffe.. I have no idea what a good distributor or conditioner does but it can make your sound more dynamic and cleaner than the wall socket. Rather than something like regenerator, my guess is that higher end distributor already assume the filtering is going to happen at equipment, so they just concentrate on what probably matters more than correcting things like voltage. Maybe entry level equipment might benefit more from regenerator as they have less filters, who knows.. only way to know what is best for you is to trial where possible. :) Think this is another area theory don't work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis wu Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 If your powercords are long enough, put the SP near your (in order of priority) 1) CDP 2) Transport 3) Preamp 4) Poweramps. Powercords is critical. Symphony pros are not cost effective option. Buy Acoustic Revive Grounding Conditioner is better. No need powercords. If you want to buy half a dozen, you can consider fly to HKG, JPN or TWN. The savings can pay for your holiday IMHO. I ordered mine from Japan last year at $620 including fedex and Paypal charges. Bro Lonesax may be able to help you if you are interested. Prices may have changed. 1 year is a long time. Since I got the Iso Trans, my AR GRC 24 has been loaned out to DizzyD!...... :). I took out all my Enacom tweaks too.... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Yeo Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Bro Giraffe, Have you ever tried the quantum symphony pro? does placement of this say near equipment or wires has any effect or the effect is via the passive cleaning up of the electronic circuitry? I used to have 4 quantum symphony pros and 2 quantum plugs from hifi tuning . Sold couples and left 2 pros and 1 plug now . I found out quantum products gets better effect when place in the powerconditioner/strips .If you are using a receiver which have power outlets , place there to get the best effect . Quantum products never blacken the blackground in my case . It stablise the imaging and produce more air feel / warm to sound and widen the soundstage. Most of the quantum products need at least 30mins to get the true effects but not noticable until you immediately unplug the powercord/plug . Side note: For PQ , colours more vibrant but contrast (black) become slightly grey . Quantum is slightly different to most conditioners which reduce EMI/RF noise and gives darker background and better blacks to PQ . Combination of both gets better results . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest durianlover88 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I use RGC24 and REM8, just cannot have space like Giraffe, nor order tall China racks...One QX4 equal 4 to 5 of these RGC24/REM8. Placing them well is an art, once done well is very satisfying. Else will degrade the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sure, I am game to take it on one of these days ;) ... But strictly speaking, the qx4 is not even classified as conditioner. If you read their website, they refused their products even to be called conditioners based on the technology employed, so my belief can still hold even if I am proven wrong with xds1. ;D My XDS1 with 4 Quantums QX4s is nothing without a conditioner. Can show you. This is REAL POISON. I can change your mindset. You only need to bring your ears. I use $10 wall sockets. 2 of them. The XDS1 has very elaborate and sophisticated power supply inside. Not good enough wor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest durianlover88 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Qx4 got 2 usage: connecting them in series to condition the power - results noticeable. Another usage is to provide 'sunshine' to equipments around it. That's why earlier Giraffe was putting them suspended in between equipments or on top of speakers. Results also noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggie Howser Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I bet franck didn't like the Qx4 on the ASI :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 LOL. You are good at deadpan humour. Yeah... as long as it works in cleaning up the noise with no side effects, who cares if it's a dog or cat. A lot of stuff out there has side effects, that's the issue (enacom which Francis removed is one fine example) I've always had. The next question to ask is given the big money to be spent on conditioner, would it make sense to get an even better preamp or Cdp than spending more on the conditioners etc. if equipment level hit limit like urs then different story la. My dog has ability to catch mice. Played with it too after it died. My dog is not a cat. My friend like to be called Winston. He said don't call me CY, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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