The Power Line Conditioner Thread

[hotbird]

Thanks, hotbird!! I actually first enquired the Super Cryo AT in our local shop but was told 20A was not available. So I decided on the Hifi tuning instead, which at least i can place order, even though 20A is less popular.

Now reading the above comments on the Super Cryo AT with richard gray, a bit regret cos i actually gonna use the fuse on my rgpc 400pro... :(

Btw, I ordered a 20A fast-blow, which I think is the correct type based on the stock fuse. Any reason the blog above tested using 20A slow-blow?  :-\

Thanks...

 

I checked cryo-at website and found that both 20A fastblow and slowblow fuse is available, but perhaps not in stock locally. You can verify

 

http://www.cryo-at.com/fu.html

 

The first category specifically says for 1A-30A the fuses are 速断型 (which is actually readible in Chinese as fast blow type)

The following category below specifically says for 0.25A-30A the fuses are 遅延型 (which is actually readible in Chinese as slow blow type)

 

However for both such fuses, the size available is large ones 6.35Ф×31.8mm (small ones are 5.0Ф×20mm)

 

If you do a thought experiment using fastblow seems to be more correct, because at this high level of current, you would certainly want the fuse to blow faster or

otherwise that current will flow thru your Richard Gray and blow up all your downstream equipment because the 20A fuse took too long

to blow up if you use a slow blow.

 

As for that blog, the writer wrote it costs RM90 per fuse, so at that price, it should certainly be a Super Cryo AT fuse and not

hifi-tuning  ;D As to why he wrote slow blow and not fast blow, I can only guess that the writer was careless or was really passed such a fuse by

his distributor in Malaysia  ;). Let's hope lightning don't strike his house  ;D ;D ;D

I also double check that 20 amp fast blow fuse is the correct type for Richard Gray check the specs for RGPC 400 Pro at

http://www.fredsoundofmusic.com/RichardGrayPowerCompany.html

[Heng]

I checked cryo-at website and found that both 20A fastblow and slowblow fuse is available, but perhaps not in stock locally. You can verify

 

http://www.cryo-at.com/fu.html

 

Thanks!! Even cryo 1.6A 20mm slow blow type also not in stock locally, though the japanese site listed it, so will have to go for hifi tuning too...  ;D

 

I also double check that 20 amp fast blow fuse is the correct type for Richard Gray check the specs for RGPC 400 Pro at

http://www.fredsoundofmusic.com/RichardGrayPowerCompany.html

 

Thanks for the help!!!  :)

 

[Quest88]

Hi all,

 

I found a good read on this topic on a M'sian blog.

http://desirableaudio.blogspot.com/2008/12/plc-market.html

 

It even compares some PLC (power line conditioners) in the market by price:

http://desirableaudio.blogspot.com/2009/03/plc-technobable.html

 

The blog also has good comparisons of well known brands, and written quite neutrally I feel..

For instance, the audio magic which I was trialing vs the famous Shunyata hydra.

http://desirableaudio.blogspot.com/2008/05/final-verdict-audio-magic-vs-shunyata.html

[Quest88]

Talk about theory so much, in the end I succumbed to getting a re-generator.

I finally ended my journey with this...

 

 

Despite my skeptism about the gains of curing fluctuation of 2% voltage amongst others, I immediately heard a significant difference. No regrets.

Dynamics for my power amp were also up vs wall socket.

And surprisingly with my PC (600W PSU) plus 200W x5 power amp (rated 1000W with 1500W peak) into the unit, I am drawing less than 300W almost all the time.

Yet to put it through its paces with full multi-channel HT. :)

[teowws]

Talk about theory so much, in the end I succumbed to getting a re-generator.

I finally ended my journey with this...

 

 

Despite my skeptism about the gains of curing fluctuation of 2% voltage amongst others, I immediately heard a significant difference. No regrets.

Dynamics for my power amp were also up vs wall socket.

And surprisingly with my PC (600W PSU) plus 200W x5 power amp (rated 1000W with 1500W peak) into the unit, I am drawing less than 300W almost all the time.

Yet to put it through its paces with full multi-channel HT. :)

 

 

wow re-generator pretty pricey....how much you got yours?

[Quest88]

 

wow re-generator pretty pricey....how much you got yours?

I got mine 2nd hand, 5 months old. :) Believe list price is around S$4k for a new set now.

[Doggie Howser]

I understand from SLT that the Oppo SE benefits from NOT going through a power conditioner. I had been testing the SE through a filtered output from the G&W conditioner/filter but today swapped the G&W out and plugged in the Essence Reference Power Distributor from Essential Sound Products (ESP).

 

Basically my whole hifi gear went through the Essence rather than the G&W. This included

2 power amps

pre amp

Phono Stage

DAC

OppoSE

 

Haven't gotten around to unplugging the other stuff from the Xindak (Duet PSU, Wadia PSU) but the overall sound has improved a lot. The first improvement was the lower noise floor. Really dark/black background. And a lot of the harshness seems to have gone. Bass definition was improved.

 

I haven't really run it in yet, so hard to say how the sound would change from here on.

 

 

 

 

[ilovepanerai]

I understand from SLT that the Oppo SE benefits from NOT going through a power conditioner. I had been testing the SE through a filtered output from the G&W conditioner/filter but today swapped the G&W out and plugged in the Essence Reference Power Distributor from Essential Sound Products (ESP).

 

Basically my whole hifi gear went through the Essence rather than the G&W. This included

2 power amps

pre amp

Phono Stage

DAC

OppoSE

 

Haven't gotten around to unplugging the other stuff from the Xindak (Duet PSU, Wadia PSU) but the overall sound has improved a lot. The first improvement was the lower noise floor. Really dark/black background. And a lot of the harshness seems to have gone. Bass definition was improved.

 

I haven't really run it in yet, so hard to say how the sound would change from here on.

 

 

Hi DH,

 

Do you experience any change in soundstage or dynamics?

 

Read/heard from some users that some power filters, especially those which has current limitation might have effects on sound stage or filter away the micro dynamics even though lowered floor noise.

 

Not sure if ESP has any current limitation, did not go through the paragraph of words you posted earlier.

 

Cheers

[Doggie Howser]

It's not a conditioner.

 

It's just a distributor but uses the cord as some passive filter circuitry.

 

It appears that the soundstage is a bit more recessed with the ESP vs the old G&W.

[Quest88]

Read/heard from some users that some power filters, especially those which has current limitation might have effects on sound stage or filter away the micro dynamics even though lowered floor noise.

Simple answer is yes, but DH is moving from one distributor to another. :) I would say no competition between the products.

 

Almost all distributors I have tried does limit dynamics even just by a little versus direct to wall socket, although there are some plus points for this approach. Sometimes its worth giving up that little bit of dynamics to gain a lot more elsewhere. If you are more 'purist', then get a regenerator for source and go direct for power amps.

[Doggie Howser]

Ray did mention the regenerator like PurePower 1050i should work just as well for my power amps.

 

From the reviews I read, it seems like the battery works in conjunction with the AC so can provide the reserves during the times when you need it ie for dynamics/transients.

 

Is there any reason you didn't do it?

 

I couldn't resist sneaking in a few minutes this morning before I had to go in to work.

 

 

[Quest88]

DH, we were talking about distributors and not re-generators. :)

 

I am indeed using the PurePower 1050i to power everything in my system actually, including the PC and external harddisk (where it acts like a UPS i guess) all the way to power amp.

 

Previously I did notice a jump in dynamics when I first switched to using it, but i think that was just an overall improvement (together with using it for source, etc).

 

I never did much extensive testing versus the wall specifically just for power amps, but when I tried direct once for power amp after, I found the wall to have just a little bit more dynamics still, though I lost all my other benefits like detail/soundstage/etc. It could have just been a variance in power cord though, thus the results are unconclusive. I know it sounds funny, but the PurePower is still susceptible to sonic changes due to the power cord to the wall.. this is even though you can run it purely on battery by unhooking it. Strange isn't it! Either way, the PurePower is much better in this aspect than the audiomagic i was using before.

 

As for the excess power during dynamics/transients, I find that it is very dependent on the amp you are using. For instance, my plinius draws very consistent current whereas my emotiva's current draw fluctuates heavily depending on what I play. Very likely, the difference is in how much is my amp being biased to Class A. Thus, I theorise that the PurePower would be more beneficial for amps like the emotiva (with low class A bias) and for inefficient speakers/amp combinations. Class D should also benefit quite significantly just due to the design.

 

No way to know all this for sure without further testing though. :)

 

Anyway, as re-generators tend to be expensive to use for power amps (more pricey the more the power requirement), a number of people use lower powered regenerators like CSE RK-100 just for source and other components, where probably the difference is greater.

[Doggie Howser]

I am indeed using the PurePower 1050i to power everything in my system actually, including the PC and external harddisk (where it acts like a UPS i guess) all the way to power amp.

 

Must have misread what you typed abt using a regenerator for sources and direct for power amps.

:)

 

Anyway, am happy with the Essence so far. I would be glad if the sound doesn't change from here on tbh ;)

 

 

 

[hotbird]

I got mine 2nd hand, 5 months old. :) Believe list price is around S$4k for a new set now.

 

In that price range, there's a new Japanese brand just brought in by XAudio, namely the Kojo Aray. (the Japanese can't spell array properly  ;) )

that has 6 outlets and supplies 1000W

 

 

Specs in Japanese at

http://kojo-tech.jp/products/aray.html

and downloadable pdf at

http://kojo-tech.jp/img/pdf/cat_aray.pdf

 

The company also maintains a blog at

http://firstcry.blogzine.jp/jongaru/

 

Just an alternative, currently using the CSE RK100 which suffice for the moment  ;D

 

[Quest88]

hotbird, thanks for the info. can't read japanese but it looks like a re-generator like ps audio ppp - real-time re-generation and stabilisation? rather than the battery approach like purepower.

 

more importantly, any indicative price? :)

have not visited x-audio for some time. swee did mention a little about u the last time i went. :P

[Quest88]

Hi, this is a thread for a list of power conditioners and discussion, similar to my rack and dac threads. Please feel free to add-on!

I know some of the below classifications are abit broad as one brand can cross 2 or more, but this is just a start.

 

Passive Filters:

1. Shunyata Hydra series: Audio Note

2. Audio Magic Stealth

3. ESP Reference: AudioTrio

4. Gigawatt: Raindrop Audio

5. Sound Application

6. Clef: Musiclink AV

7. Furutech: Musiclink AV

8. Acoustic Revive: X-Audio

9. Oyaide: X-Audio

10. Orb: Music by Design

11. Telos: Audio Basic

12. Audience

13. Burmester

14. Furman

15. MIT

16. Running Springs

17. Synergistic Research

18. Transparent Audio

19. Walker Audio

20. Sine Power conditioner SAF-30A/60A/80A: by Qubes Audio

 

Transformer Based:

1. Torus Power: AFA Electronics?

2. RGPC Substation

3. Sine SAT-3KV/5KV isolation transformer: Qubes Audio

4. Isotek Titan: Musiclink AV

5. Magnet: Musiclink AV

6. Clef: Musiclink AV

7. Equitech

8. Tripoint?

9. Accuphase

 

Re-generators:

1. PurePower APS: Norman Audio

2. PS Audio PPP, P5, P10: A&L

3. CSE RG-100: X-Audio

4. ExactPower?

[Quest88]

Part of the reason why I started this thread is because I just happened to be hunting for a good power line conditioner and realise no list existed for guys who wanted to go out to see/test any.

 

In my place, there suddenly seems to be a lot of noise in the mains since the past few months. It could be always there, just that I never noticed it, or it could be from my lift upgrading (just a suspicion), but it is what it is. The lesson I learnt is really that some conditioners work better than others in different situations.

 

My first major experience was with the Audio Magic Stealth, a small power conditioner that I brought around to numerous houses to test. And the results always vary greatly. In some homes, it would be a transformation. In others, the difference would be small.. basically you have to buy something that specifically treats the issue you are facing else it would not be a big jump. The other thing I learnt though, is that it restricted dynamics if used on the power amp. It means that you shouldn't always plug all your components to a conditioner and evaluation of power amp to wall should always be done.

 

My last major experience was with the PurePower which worked great for me in terms of general clean-up and especially if your pre/power does not have a lot of filtering (e.g. my old pre/power - switching from a passive of similar cost to the PurePower still yielded alot of benefits). It also did not restrict power and seemed to give more dynamics than the wall. But what it does not seem to do is give complete isolation from the wall. If you ran off batteries, it would be very very quiet, but if not, the power cord to the wall and EMI/RF from this cord and mains would still affect the system.

 

Still in middle of auditioning a few others, but some passive filters (not some others that I have tested) seems to help me more at the moment for my specific problem, which is a random 'eee' sound throughout the system via my switch mode power supplies, a rarity in hi-end hifi equipment and something most guys should not face with traditional beefy power supplies. I am still trying to isolate this issue but interesting that a passive + well shielded power cord works pretty well.

 

One other way to run the system is to run a passive then to a regenerator for source components.. I have yet to test this, or if I still continued to use the PurePower run in series with a passive conditioner.

[Lorenzo1624706020]

May i suggest that we have an approximate price range to assist potential owners to narrow down their choices hehe :)

[Jason Yeo]

Try bypass the purepower and check if there is still the random 'eee' sound .

[Quest88]

Try bypass the purepower and check if there is still the random 'eee' sound .

yup. it exists in most conditioners i have tried, just that some have less of it.

some power cords also lower the noise.

 

the quietest was when i disconnect purepower from wall, and run from battery. totally gone. :)

[Quest88]

May i suggest that we have an approximate price range to assist potential owners to narrow down their choices hehe :)

thought of that but abit too many since got to go by specific models..

wait till populate the list of brands already then think about this. :P

[Jason Yeo]

yup. it exists in most conditioners i have tried, just that some have less of it.

some power cords also lower the noise.

 

the quietest was when i disconnect purepower from wall, and run from battery. totally gone. :)

 

Then quite serious liao . I doubt any of the power conditioners mentioned can help  :P Think you need to block the main power coming into your house and also block all home appliances dirty power from flowing back ;D

[Quest88]

Then quite serious liao . I doubt any of the power conditioners mentioned can help  :P Think you need to block the main power coming into your house and also block all home appliances dirty power from flowing back ;D

like i mentioned.. i have tried some that have helped. now trying out a power cord + conditioner combo which can lower the noise level to almost zero. if i place my ear near the tweeter, can still hear abit of it though, but at least dun really bother me when i am listening to music anymore. this weekend testing more higher spec ones in the hope it resolves it even further!

 

mains i think can't be helped la.. it is already a dedicated power line. but i will be checking some other things..

actually one thing i am curious is if i get the sound whenever the lift is moving but so far unable to verify. :P

[BTW1624705745]

Here's a long shot....Maybe re-check your whole system's grounding again(power cords, equipment etc..).. Some power cords could be floated while others grounded ...  Things might improve if all equipment and power cords are all properly grounded..

[Quest88]

Here's a long shot....Maybe re-check your whole system's grounding again(power cords, equipment etc..).. Some power cords could be floated while others grounded ...  Things might improve if all equipment and power cords are all properly grounded..

Not a long shot.. I have tested this. It's not a ground issue or sound.

Thanks for suggesting.

 

At first I also thought it was a EMI/RF issue from my PC but after putting my PC to another separate power line, there was no difference.