The Power Line Conditioner Thread

[jeromelang]

IMHO, power line conditioner shouldn't be in the same room as audio equipment.

Plc generates tons of RF, spewing them indiscriminately into surrounding audio equipment and cabling.

The intensity of RF pollution is many times the magnitude compared to wireless routers and tv sets.

 

Another issue - whenever the fridge door is opened or closed, it will have an audible effect on the sound quality of your audio system, even if your audio system is plugged into a "dedicate" line.

The famous long neck audiophile mentioned it previously in another thread about sugar cubes.

 

In another word, there is no such thing as a "dedicated line" unless it come from a separate power generator. In an apartment, you can forgetaboutit.  ;D

[mars73]

Bro mars73,

 

I don't have the answers to your open queries.

I am still a learner ......... so much to learn, especially form other bros systems.

I am blur when HT comes into the picture.

 

Bro TECK5 who inspired me a lot, has 6 lines to his system.

If you redo your lines as in new reno, it is relatively very cheap to have an extra line.

I will make 4, if I were you. 1 is spare for future use, as we still don't know what's in store.

 

We can have coffee .........

I am on my way to Guangzhou next week, and Thailand (dats where my most of my $$$ interest lies) is flooded.

I just hope I can squeeze out some time for you. When is the renovation anyway.

Yes, I still have a date with WizOz and Louco.

I have a Rack in between my speakers and it's disturbing the soundstage.

 

By next week, a bro will come for 1 of my SOLID Chinese Racks.

I will then have the space for the Rack O Silence, and back to my normal soundstaging.

I haven't tweak my system yet. XDS1 already run in. LAZY me.

 

I'm still waiting for my keys. So renovation probably in December. It is a reno almost from scratch (for condo). I didn't know it's so easy to have extra lines. I always thought that due to the many other electrical requirements in the house (lightings, kitchen appliances etc) there is probably limited dedicated lines I can pull. Now I read that I also have to look at current allocation - how to divide the 60 amp limit and how much to set aside for hifi. Wah blur....

 

In my setup, I will also have my rack between speakers, no choice. Can try to pull out the speakers abit more but not much leeway to do it.

 

I will be happy to have coffee. I work at Raffles Place so fairly easy for me to pop over to Adelphi in the afternoons. But with you going to GZ, maybe better to wait until you come back =)

 

 

[mars73]

Back to yr questions:

 

1) 2 dedicated lines are enough and minimum under setup 3. If need more lines, is when you want to have direct dedicated line for power amps (due to weak conditioner, or current limitations). Another case like me, when got too many digital equipments and want to have 3rd dedicated line to connect up digital gears. Another way is if you have 2 dedicated lines only, then use an empty conditioner/distributor socket to extend to another conditioner/strip. So long as you use that line for the same equipment type, say digital gears and not mix with analog gears, then ok.

 

2) wrong. Source/DACs are most sensitive. However if you the second conditioner is expensive and need to wait, then use a distributor strip first to dong, or if you are talking about a single DAC equipment, can connect directly to dedicated line socket.

 

3) this is luxury and waste of $. Do this only if the conditioner is not capable to sustain current or will smear each other pre/power.

 

I see, thanks. I was just worried about the HT stuff polluting the hifi if they share the same line. But maybe doable. Still, if I have spare capacity, I will ask electrician to install > 2 dedicated lines if possible. So 20A for hifi and HT is enough?

 

As for my digital source, I only have a single DAC. Think I'll plug it into the wall first then later figure out which conditioner to use for it.

 

 

[mars73]

Bro Mars73,

 

If your DB box (does not exceed the 60Amp normally for flats) can split into more lines/circuit, have the max nos of separate line.

 

If you reno your place the electrician can split the circuit for you to suit your needs & appliances...i.e. 15Amp (AirCon), 15Amp (Water Heaters) then 5Amp(to lightings), 5Amp(to PC,TV,Projector,appliances socket), 10amp for (HT sockets) and 20Amp (HiFi sockets) etc...

 

If not reno check your single line drawing...there maybe spare so no need major re-circuit.. Just run a new 20Amp circuit

 

Cheers :) :)

 

OT abit: By the way, how's the Octave setup?

 

Ah thanks. So even if I pull 2 lines for my Hifi, I can keep to the same 20Amp overall limit? i.e. 20Amp split between the 2 lines. Sorry ah, very noob at this...

 

The Octave setup is coming along nicely, thanks :) Just did some tube rolling and its sounding pretty nice right now. Next upgrade is my preamp, am thinking to get the HP500SE, heard it at a friend's place and its significantly better than my HP300 Mkii.

 

[jeromelang]

One often overlooked issue about laying power lines is that the cable wiring must not be pulled taut and have stress applied on them.

 

We found this out over at teck5 place.

 

Power cables pulled taut = Bo bass, hard and lean sound  ;D

 

But the problem is - how to know when there is tension/stress on your power line cabling....?

[5th Avenue]

Ah thanks. So even if I pull 2 lines for my Hifi, I can keep to the same 20Amp overall limit? i.e. 20Amp split between the 2 lines. Sorry ah, very noob at this...

 

The Octave setup is coming along nicely, thanks :) Just did some tube rolling and its sounding pretty nice right now. Next upgrade is my preamp, am thinking to get the HP500SE, heard it at a friend's place and its significantly better than my HP300 Mkii.

 

Bro mars73,

 

Yep...meaning you are running 2 diff circuit/line at 10 Amp each with a diff breaker at the DB.

 

Also just to add that 2 different socket does not mean 2 diff line/circuit even if it's far apart. Electrician normally "loop" the wiring of a circuit to have multiple 13Amp sockets (advisable not more than 6 sockets for a 10Amp circuit). This may have confused some bros.

 

The only way to verify is as what naimster suggest, switch off individual breaker one at a time (at the DB) and test if there's current in both socket....use a hairdryer or "test pen" (screwdriver with buit-in bulb, bulb lights up if there's current)

 

Cheers  :) :) :)

 

OT abit: Bro will pm u on audition....hehehehe ;D

 

 

 

 

[Quest88]

One often overlooked issue about laying power lines is that the cable wiring must not be pulled taut and have stress applied on them.

 

We found this out over at teck5 place.

 

Power cables pulled taut = Bo bass, hard and lean sound  ;D

 

But the problem is - how to know when there is tension/stress on your power line cabling....?

i agree to some extent.. personally i prefer power distributor which face sideways rather than upwards which result in pulling of heavy cords on the bend back down.

[mars73]

i just did a quick AB test - between plugging my dac into purepower and plugging it into a cheapo no-brand extension power distributor (from home-fix) drawn from another corner of the living room. the latter was quite a bit better, even though its running through lousy power cord from the wall to the distributor. the lines of music clears up and sounds more real. details are not recessed or hidden even at lower volumes. if i have a dedicated line for digital with a good distributor/conditioner, i think its gonna be more 'wow'.

 

[melmeow]

if i dun have pre-amp (using integrated SS), no TT, dac is integrated with cdp, how do i split analog or digital ? I assume all my stuffs are digital ? Any advice ?

[Guest durianlover88]

Bingo, Bro! :)

 

i just did a quick AB test - between plugging my dac into purepower and plugging it into a cheapo no-brand extension power distributor (from home-fix) drawn from another corner of the living room. the latter was quite a bit better, even though its running through lousy power cord from the wall to the distributor. the lines of music clears up and sounds more real. details are not recessed or hidden even at lower volumes. if i have a dedicated line for digital with a good distributor/conditioner, i think its gonna be more 'wow'.

 

[Guest durianlover88]

if i dun have pre-amp (using integrated SS), no TT, dac is integrated with cdp, how do i split analog or digital ? I assume all my stuffs are digital ? Any advice ?

 

Bro, integrated amp is analog. Cdp with internal DAC is digital.

[melmeow]

noted ! ...i will try that arrangement ...thanks !

[pcking1624705747]

A bit OT but for an AVR, it has both digital/analog inside, (DAC, pre, power all in 1) so plug to digital or analog ?  ;D

 

What about say a Hifi DAC with an integrated analog preamp ? So it's considered digital or analog ? 

[5th Avenue]

i just did a quick AB test - between plugging my dac into purepower and plugging it into a cheapo no-brand extension power distributor (from home-fix) drawn from another corner of the living room. the latter was quite a bit better, even though its running through lousy power cord from the wall to the distributor. the lines of music clears up and sounds more real. details are not recessed or hidden even at lower volumes. if i have a dedicated line for digital with a good distributor/conditioner, i think its gonna be more 'wow'.

 

Hi mars73,

 

Nothing beats your own trial and verified with your own ears...cheers  ;D ;D ;D

 

What was obvious in Giraffe setup was (don't flame me if my HiFi jargon not up to standard);

1) Vocals becomes more tonal (with volume) and lively not flat or harsh

2) String instruments i.e. violin, erhu... are smoother and lively without bloatness and flatness

3) For multiple musical instruments, separation are better and clearer and not compressed

 

Maybe some other bros will notice differently with other music. Do share your views or experience.

 

Cheers  :) :)

 

 

 

[bigtree]

Hi mars73,

 

I did 3 dedicated lines following Bro Giraffe's advise. (1 for digital, 1 pre+power and 1 for AV) Good to have more during reno than to do it later.

 

For MCB, I was considering pulling another line from the main. But that time money not enuff. I upgrade the 10A MCB to 25A for digital and 40A for the remaining two. You can look for QubesAudio or DJQ for pricing of the SINE MCB. You can PM me for the price that I bought in HK.

 

As for outlets, juz buy a normal hubbel. Forget about R1s or rhodium, gold, silver outlets. It coloured the sound. Whether good or bad, you have to decide.

 

Cables can buy in reels from Arts Audio.

 

So far having a direct line  in my system is my best upgrade to-date, followed by the ASI & SA.

 

 

 

[hotbird]

R1s or rhodium, gold, silver outlets are "ah gee no motor" IMHO.

These things give you "beautiful sound" and not "correct sound". Coloration in other words.

 

R1 is the most neutral range among all the Oyaide outlets, you want warmth, one gets the gold, if you want more sparkle, one uses the silver/palladium,

but for neutrality R1 is no aji-no-moto. I use R1 in my systems and it is not colored, but requires long break-in

Japanese are very particular about tone and textures (timbral listening) if R1 is colored, it would not been so popular in Japan and the rest of the world.

 

 

Lend me your ears and I’ll sing you a song … timbral listening

 

 

 

[mars73]

Hi mars73,

 

I did 3 dedicated lines following Bro Giraffe's advise. (1 for digital, 1 pre+power and 1 for AV) Good to have more during reno than to do it later.

 

For MCB, I was considering pulling another line from the main. But that time money not enuff. I upgrade the 10A MCB to 25A for digital and 40A for the remaining two. You can look for QubesAudio or DJQ for pricing of the SINE MCB. You can PM me for the price that I bought in HK.

 

As for outlets, juz buy a normal hubbel. Forget about R1s or rhodium, gold, silver outlets. It coloured the sound. Whether good or bad, you have to decide.

 

Cables can buy in reels from Arts Audio.

 

So far having a direct line  in my system is my best upgrade to-date, followed by the ASI & SA.

 

Wow, thanks. Sorry ah some clarifications cos not familiar with terminology. MCB = Main Circuit Breaker? What's a Sine MCB? I only saw the Sine Isolation Transformer.

 

As for the cables from Arts Audio, you are referring to power cables to be laid from the DB box?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[bigtree]

Wow, thanks. Sorry ah some clarifications cos not familiar with terminology. MCB = Main Circuit Breaker? What's a Sine MCB? I only saw the Sine Isolation Transformer.

 

As for the cables from Arts Audio, you are referring to power cables to be laid from the DB box?

 

 

MCB - Wiki

 

The market has a few other brands available. I bought the SINE one when I was in HK as the price is reason.

 

The cables I meant is running from MCB to your power outlet. Another alternative for cables is LHS at SLT.

[jigster]

As for outlets, juz buy a normal hubbel. Forget about R1s or rhodium, gold, silver outlets. It coloured the sound. Whether good or bad, you have to decide.

 

This is interesting... on a similar note, I was reading about Porter's Ports which are essentially croy'd Hubbel receptacles unplated; was a bit skeptical but since some bros have had real experiences with regards to plating colouration... its making... well, less skeptical since I have no experience with this... still using UK sockets  :P

 

Quote from Albert Porter:

"Hubbell now manufactures the Hospital grade 8300 with magnetic steel back strap and galvanized plating. I've arranged delivery of Hospital grade interior parts, unplated in the 5362 body with non magnetic, brass back strap"

 

Would this yield better results in terms of non-colouration?

 

I was comtemplating getting a few of these but of course they are more expensive (US$36 each excluding shipping) than the $10 regular Hubbell.

Anyone tried them?

[Quest88]

talking about MCBs.. check out this. :)

audioexotics using argento flow master reference to MCB.. will we see someone locally use ASI cables for this? ;D

 

http://www.audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=8160&limitstart=140

[dhan]

Bro, integrated amp is analog. Cdp with internal DAC is digital.

 

So if i have 2 dedicated line, the equipment should be connected as follows?

 

Line 1 - CDP

Line 2 - Pre and Power Amp

 

For AVR, connect to line 1 or avoid connecting to these dedicated line since it is video?

 

Cheers

 

[Guest durianlover88]

Avr is Line 2

[dhan]

Avr is Line 2

 

Wow, Line 2 are all the amplifier, is that the reason why people want to go for 3rd line for power amp since so many amp in same line  ???

[Doggie Howser]

Avr is Line 2

 

I would have put AVR as Line 1 - digital, since it also has a DAC/HDMI and other digital decoding inside.

 

Similarly, I would have put a Benchmark DAC1 Pre (acting as a DAC and Pre) in Line 1.

 

 

[5th Avenue]

Hi all,

I believe the idea is to separate your source (CDP with built-in DAC or DAC) and Output Equipments (Pre & Power). For some bro who asked about combo equipment...best u do your own trial and see if you like what you hear.

 

Just my 2 cents advise for those who are not doing reno or having a new flat. It will minimise disruption your current deco and will be more receptive to your Minister of Home Affairs.... ;D

 

Please note the  "...??? ???" is the decision point if you choose the upgrade path

 

For those bros who are 50/50 of having a dedicated Hifi lines

>>> You can trial by using the 2 separate circuits in your house. Use extension wires to feed the conditioners and AB...No diff or can't hear...Status quo

 

If yes for change, consider below...

 

For those who wants to have a dedicated Hifi lines

 

Line 1 - Just run a new 20Amp circuit/line for hifi only. For sockets UK, US or International plugs (fit both UK/US/China)...??? ??? 

 

Line 2 - Run another new 20Amp line or use/share 1 existing lines/circuit as the 2nd line....ie. from your HT, living, bedroom or study...??? ???

 

Use 2 AC conditioner, one for each line....so long you are happy to what you hear and don't break the bank...??? ???

 

For polarity issue since all bros will use US plugs or US equipments, simplest way is get a UK/US plug that inverts the L & N. One plug to each conditioner or 1 to each equipment....???  ???

 

For new lines, get the electrician to invert during the wiring...??? ??? (ask electrician if it's against PG requirement)

 

My suggestions (used for my setup) are simple, cost effective and less MHA objection.... :)

 

Hope this helps  ;D ;D ;D