Figure i'm done updating my system for now, so may as well post up a pic/spec.  Very happy.

 

Troels Gravesen designed: Faital 3wc 15" speakers

ifi Zen dac (fed by USB from HTPC running Tidal app)

Vincent SV-237 amp

Bills cables on the way

 

We listen to Tidal exclusively for stereo (might go to Qobuz though), the system is used for movies etc too through the HTPC.

Picked up the Vincent amp yesterday, i can't comment on it's performance vs high end gear, but compared to my previous amps it's a significant step up in stereo imaging and grip - am very impressed.  The bass performance is wonderfully improved over the Rotel i was using.

2 quotes stick in my mind:

1. "There's no replacement for displacement"

2. "All speakers should start with a 15" woofer"

 

Future updates:

A better quality dac would probably be the next item on the list.

 

 

Dual 15s, and ports too. Awesome.

Bass is fun.

Looks like a nice set up.

Bet it is sounding fantastic.

 

I’m in the same camp re those two quotes ?

On 23/03/2021 at 10:24 AM, Janus77 said:

1. "There's no replacement for displacement"

2. "All speakers should start with a 15" woofer"

100%

1 hour ago, crtexcnndrm99 said:

Bet it is sounding fantastic.

 

I’m in the same camp re those two quotes ?

you win.

2 hours ago, Winno said:

 

Dual 15s, and ports too. 

 

 

Dual 15s - tick!

 

Ports - cross (the only reason for ports is to try to get a quart out of a pint-pot)!

 

Andy

 

What do you reckon to this Troells speaker? Have you heard much to compare it to?

On 25/03/2021 at 10:39 PM, russell66 said:

What do you reckon to this Troells speaker? Have you heard much to compare it to?

 

Sorry i missed this reply.  I think this design is wonderful, it's crazy but i think the speakers are still improving!  The bass is just something else.

If i start listening, it turns into a full evening of tunes.  My wife's pretty happy as 1. she likes music, and 2. she'll get a foot rub on the couch while I listen (in lieu of her using the TV).

 

I haven't heard too many systems to compare to though, for me it's way better sound than i'd expected.

 

Some examples; Billie Eilish - Bad Guy, the bass tickles my legs (the hairs move) even at low listening levels - ie. when the kids are asleep in the room next door.  Muse - Madness, phooaa.. Laura Marling, she's in the room and sounding fantastic.  Led Zeppelin remastered tracks, the clarity of Jon Bonham's drumming is astounding, ramble on, the stick on the rim of the snare, crikey it's in the room.  Michel Godard - A Trace of Grace, it's not just the depth of the bass with the horns, but the space in between the notes, you can feel that it was recorded in a large space/hall.  

 

For anyone considering a build, I would wholeheartedly recommend these speakers - assuming you have the room.  I had no idea what high efficiency meant for sound, honestly everyone should hear high efficiency bass drivers, i think Troels mentions the "lightness of bass" - i get what he means now.

 

Only things i'd like to do that i haven't, is get them into a larger room, and try a high power class D amp just to see what it does for the bass.  It's difficult to turn them up too much, they go louder than i'm game to take them before there's any distortion, there's no distortion even at painful levels.

 

Sitting on the couch listening to tunes just makes me very very happy, it's this visceral experience that's difficult to explain, the sound is all encompassing.  I thought my old Paradigm 9se mk1 were great (which they were), but this is an entirely different experience.

 

@aris How are you enjoying yours, after several months more listening?

I’m still enjoying my 3WC-15’s!

 

I’m considering limiting the bass extension on the bass amp or via DRC to a bit higher than maybe Troels has his in the crossover as I think the bass driver gets a bit muddy below 40-50hz.

 

Similarly I am considering cutting out the lower frequencies to the treble/midrange to reduce back EMF etc to the tube amp I have there. 
 

And then there is the inevitable temptation to add sub woofers …

 

Aris

 

 

Edited May 17, 20214 yr by aris

On 17/05/2021 at 12:55 PM, aris said:

I’m still enjoying my 3WC-15’s!

 

I’m considering limiting the bass extension on the bass amp or via DRC to a bit higher than maybe Troels has his in the crossover as I think the bass driver gets a bit muddy below 40-50hz.

 

Similarly I am considering cutting out the lower frequencies to the treble/midrange to reduce back EMF etc to the tube amp I have there. 
 

And then there is the inevitable temptation to add sub woofers …

 

Aris

 

 

 

Hi Aris, is this muddiness observed with class D powering the driver? I think you grabbed a Yamaha amplifier to drive the bass unit from memory. 

I'm considering using this 15pr400 driver in a DIY design, so your comment caught my interest. 

 

Furthermore, have you or any other builders taken any measurements of the speaker that could be shared?

I.e. Distortion, response, clarity, Waterall and Spectogram would all be useful via REW? 1m or so from speaker position.  

 

Have you tried going active with PC based DSP (Roon or Other) + Okto Dac 8 pro?

 

Edited May 23, 20214 yr by Grizaudio

I'd be happy to measure mine, but i don't have any of the hardware/software required.

On 24/05/2021 at 8:58 AM, Janus77 said:

I'd be happy to measure mine, but i don't have any of the hardware/software required.

 

No problem. Just an FYI, the REW software is free. 

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

 

You just need a USB mic, to take measurements: I use the umik from MiniDSP. 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1?gclid=CjwKCAjw47eFBhA9EiwAy8kzNA9I2SOHW6yxjA56-9m9FGz0Tr2Gp-aejnN95b_cE-f113bWFFyhThoCz2EQAvD_BwE

 

If you are not playing/correcting with DSP, this would only be for curiosity. 

 

Well done on the speakers, an amazing effort. 

Once you experience large format drivers its very difficult to go back to modern small driver speakers. 

 

Edited May 26, 20214 yr by Grizaudio

I don't have a microphone unfortunately, yes the crossovers are passive with no room correction.  Would be interesting for curiosity though.

there's a music studio across the road, maybe i should bake my mate a cake and see if he'll give me 15 minutes in one of the recording rooms to do some measurements?

8 hours ago, Janus77 said:

I don't have a microphone unfortunately, yes the crossovers are passive with no room correction.  Would be interesting for curiosity though.

there's a music studio across the road, maybe i should bake my mate a cake and see if he'll give me 15 minutes in one of the recording rooms to do some measurements?

 

The benefit of measuring your speaker "in room", is you can see how the speaker acoustically performs in your space. 

These measurements provide valuable insight to help understand/address any correctable acoustic anomalies which may be present.

You can then choose to address acoustic observations using either free or paid techniques.

I.e. Speaker placement, seated position, acoustic treatment, equalisation, etc. 

 

By altering these factors you will be amazed to see the impact on measured response. This is really easy to do, as measuring is simply a few button clicks. 

 

Many software packages offer included equalisation or VST's as part of the package. Allowing easy tweaking/customisation of sound profiles.

I.e. Roon, Audirvana, 

 

For me personally, I have tried REW auto correction, and I applied convolution filters in Roon. I didn't like the result. 

Rephase does a similar job, but also corrects for phase, REW does not. 

 

For me a more manual approach using REW delivered better results. Although many hifi users love the benefits of automated correction like REW, Dirac Live. 

What I did like was using subtle low Q PEQ's at key frequencies, to address "correctable issues". 

I then used speaker placement, seating position and acoustic treatment to improve response further.  

 

REW provide a guide, to understand measurements and get started. Its worth understanding the basics. 

https://www.avnirvana.com/resources/getting-started-with-rew-a-step-by-step-guide.19/

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=REW+

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/

 

This is an example of the measurement information you could expect. 

These measurement's are taken at my seated position, pre EQ. 

 

Response and Distortion

 

Spectrograph 

 

Clarity: 

 

Waterfall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 20214 yr by Grizaudio