I use these. One is ceramic, the other is steel. I use them several times during cutting to quickly deburr the knife. That seems to be enough? 

 

Honestly, I am not a knife expert. The reason I have 4 chef's knives is so that I don't have to sharpen them too often. In fact, I don't trust myself to sharpen the knife on the right (my most expensive knife). That knife has only been sharpened once, by Chef's Armory in Richmond, and I use it extremely sparingly. 

 

14 hours ago, almikel said:

How do you maintain the edge?

Hi Mike,

Since the tip was redone and the knife cleaned I have not used.  I just like to look at it and touch it.  Previously I sharpened it with Diamond and wet stones.  I need to develop my sharpening skills more.  What is the strop that you use?

The knife rusts very easily with the slightest amount of moisture.  Very hard to keep perfectly dry.  I have many other knives for cooking purposes. 

John

15 hours ago, Keith_W said:

 Chef's Armory in Richmond

 

I took my Japanese knives to them in person once (you can post them in).  I dropped off and picked up some time later.  Got home and felt the edges, and was so disappointed.  If it weren't for the tyranny of distance I would have demanded my money back, the job was so poor.

Story:

My local butcher is a knife appreciator and we admire each other's knives on an irregular basis.

One day a man came in as we were talking and asked if the butcher's pro sharpening service could do his beloved Japanese hand-made blade, given him by his wife. The butcher said he wouldn't trust the pro and to give it to me! The chap was a bit taken aback but after a brief discussion he handed it over. It was an absolute pleasure to work on that superb piece of steel and wood. I re-set the edge (it was convex) and stropped the bevel.

He sent a message after he got it back saying it was better than new, and "thank you, thank you, thank you". That made my day.

13 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

Story:

My local butcher is a knife appreciator and we admire each other's knives on an irregular basis.

One day a man came in as we were talking and asked if the butcher's pro sharpening service could do his beloved Japanese hand-made blade, given him by his wife. The butcher said he wouldn't trust the pro and to give it to me! The chap was a bit taken aback but after a brief discussion he handed it over. It was an absolute pleasure to work on that superb piece of steel and wood. I re-set the edge (it was convex) and stropped the bevel.

He sent a message after he got it back saying it was better than new, and "thank you, thank you, thank you". That made my day.

 

What do you use to sharpen the knives? 

2 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

 

What do you use to sharpen the knives? 

I used the KME with diamond hones and then super fine diamond paper. The convex edge was managed with a hand-curved rod out to the hones. Polishing was via a fine denim strop loaded with diamond paste.

Can you please link to the KME? I have never heard of it. And what grit is your super fine diamond paper? Where do you get your diamond paste? 

 

I need to up my knife sharpening game. 

1 hour ago, Keith_W said:

 

I need to up my knife sharpening game. 

 

and here's me using the underside edge of a square dinner bowl... 

1 hour ago, wasabijim said:

and here's me using the underside edge of a square dinner bowl... 

well that could work if it's harder than the knife !

 

On 17/06/2023 at 11:31 AM, Assisi said:

What is the strop that you use?

I bought a Sharpal strop from Amazon - $37

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07WC1M411?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

3 hours ago, Keith_W said:

Can you please link to the KME? I have never heard of it

https://www.amazon.com.au/Precision-Knife-Sharpener-System-Diamond/dp/B010ESF0AW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=L6IBTHQUNNL5&keywords=kme+sharpener&qid=1687177924&s=kitchen&sprefix=kme+sharpe%2Ckitchen%2C327&sr=1-2

Note that I've never used the KME !

 

Mike

 

On 17/06/2023 at 11:31 AM, Assisi said:

Since the tip was redone and the knife cleaned I have not used.  I just like to look at it and touch it. 

that's getting fetishist  ...     - kitchen knives are there to be used and enjoyed for food prep and cooking!

On 17/06/2023 at 11:31 AM, Assisi said:

The knife rusts very easily with the slightest amount of moisture.  Very hard to keep perfectly dry. 

Just wipe it over with vegetable oil after cleaning/drying and it won't rust.

 

Is rusting a thing with Japanese steel knives?

I've never had an issue with rust on my Wustof knives, but I try to ensure my carbon steel wok is cleaned and dried after use and a light smear of vegetable oil applied to prevent rusting...and it drives me crazy when the kids leave the wok unwashed overnight

 

Mike

11 hours ago, almikel said:

I bought a Sharpal strop from Amazon - $37

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07WC1M411?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Thanks Mike for the information.  In the context of the KME you note that you have not used one.  Have you used anything that is equivalent?  There are a couple of less expensive products listed on Amazon.

John

16 hours ago, Keith_W said:

Can you please link to the KME? I have never heard of it. And what grit is your super fine diamond paper? Where do you get your diamond paste? 

 

I need to up my knife sharpening game. 

Your best bet for all these materials is to DuckDuckGo or Google to get the lowest price. 

 

KME sharpening systems are usually carried by online knife specialists. There are other more expensive and cheaper systems but, as @Keith_W mentions, get one where you don't have to re-position the knife as you change sides, and where you can keep your 'off' hand away from danger.

 

I got the diamond lapping paper (5, 1, .3 microns) from a sandpaper specialist, one sheet of each of the grades I wanted. Sorry, I don't remember the name.

 

Diamond honing media is available from specialist knife shops and is made for strops, but it is very expensive. The option I went with (probably not a good as the sprays and liquids) was small syringes of paste from a place specialising in rock and gem polishing materials. I think I got 5ml syringes which will last me for years or decades. The strops take very little and of course the diamonds don't wear out!

 

As a hobby allied to my pocket and small knife collecting it was all fairly cheap on a per-knife basis. For just a few cooking knives it would be much less economical. Also cooking is easier with the non-polished edges unless you're getting into fancy cutting. My cook knives get only a brief strop rather than a prolonged polish.

 

IMO cooking knives would be well catered for by one of the guided sharpeners and a cheap strop of denim (as I linked previously) with a cheap steel polishing compound (Autosol or ...). The diamond lapping paper and pastes are really overkill—for the obsessed.

 

If you have a quality blade all you really need a Diamond Encrusted steele.

My knives haven't seen astone in over ten years if not more. A very brief run along the steele before each use and it stays very sharp.

So much over complicating for no reason, I feel like I'm listening to audiophiles.

Edited June 20, 20232 yr by joz

On 20/06/2023 at 4:44 PM, joz said:

If you have a quality blade all you really need a Diamond Encrusted steele.

My knives haven't seen astone in over ten years if not more. A very brief run along the steele before each use and it stays very sharp.

So much over complicating for no reason, I feel like I'm listening to audiophiles.

valid point!

My brother has a Tormek, but hasn't used it for years, as he uses a steel often and a diamond steel less often when more of a touch up is required.

A diamond steel takes material off the knife the same as a fine stone - both require reasonable skill at the appropriate angle to achieve a good edge.

 

Bumblies like myself can benefit from a system that provides a consistent sharpening angle.

 

It would be pretty easy to take a brand new quality knife out of the box and degrade it's edge/reduce it's sharpness on a diamond steel using the wrong angle

 

Mike

On 20/06/2023 at 9:51 AM, Assisi said:

Thanks Mike for the information.  In the context of the KME you note that you have not used one.  Have you used anything that is equivalent?  There are a couple of less expensive products listed on Amazon.

John

No I haven't.

I went down the totally manual path of water stones - I currently have 300 and 1200 grit stones and a leather strop.

Maybe this path is foolish - but I'm enjoying the learning process of getting an edge on my knives with manual angles...

 

...numerous times my edge has been better at cutting paper before stropping - so clearly my angles need way more practise...especially on the strop!!!

 

Mike

On 20/06/2023 at 12:46 PM, GregWormald said:

IMO cooking knives would be well catered for by one of the guided sharpeners and a cheap strop of denim (as I linked previously) with a cheap steel polishing compound (Autosol or ...). 

I came to this thread after I headed down the manual sharpening path with water stones - but I agree.

 

Consistent angle is the critical thing - including using a strop or a steel.

 

Mike

On 14/06/2023 at 7:44 PM, GregWormald said:

@Kaynin

Here you go. The crystal handle was a drawer pull.

 

 

I see my Schwartz is bigger than yours -

 

 

 

 

This what I use, all Japanese, most are V10 stainless, the paring  knife and two 

single bevels are blue paper carbon steel. 
all maintained with wet stones

left yo right

Paring  knife, old Honesuki for rough work, large petty, Santoku chef knife

Usuba vegetable knife, large single edge Honesuk, Yanagiba sushi knife

 

looking to add a Deba and Kiritsuke 

 

Owning  and using quality hand made knives is such a pleasure and ultimately not that expensive ( the whole collection is less cost than one of my carts ) given I actually know the name of the black smith that made each one which such a rare thing in the modern world 

 

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by Chill3

My small little collection accumulated since visiting Japan over ten years ago. I just use naniwa wet stones that I picked up from the knife store within Tsujiki fish markets before they shut down.

 

 

My favorite knife was one made  by Australian knife maker Mert Tansu. Below are the specs.
 

230mm honyaki gyuto forged from W2, gunome (wavy) hamon .

232mm at the edge, 49.5mm tall

Thickness along the spine 3.8 mm at the heel, 1.9mm midway, .9mm one inch before the tip, 6mm one cm before the tip. 196 grams in weight, Very thin behind the edge with great distal taper Handle is two tone one of the best gidgee I have seen with bronze bolster

On 20/06/2023 at 4:44 PM, joz said:

If you have a quality blade all you really need a Diamond Encrusted steele.

My knives haven't seen astone in over ten years if not more. A very brief run along the steele before each use and it stays very sharp.

My dad gifted me an "Edge Master" 26cm diamond steel recently, so I've been using that for a quick touch up of any knife before use - works brilliantly.

It's way more aggressive than my 1200 grit water stone - you're definitely removing material from the knife, as opposed to a normal steel, which apparently just stands the knife edge up again.

 

I'm sure I'll be working on angle control for many years - and I'll likely never be able to use a steel like you see the butchers go swish, swish a few times...

 

...if acquiring a steel (normal or diamond), IMVHO go long if you have large/long knives - easier to maintain the angle.

 

The Wustof steel I bought 30 years ago is way too short at around 8 inches/20cm.

The one dad just gave me is 10 inches/26cm, which works well - but I reckon 12 inches would be better for maintaining the angle on my long carving and cook's knives.

 

cheers,

Mike

On 07/12/2023 at 1:44 PM, almikel said:

<snips>My dad gifted me an "Edge Master" 26cm diamond steel recently, so I've been using that for a quick touch up of any knife before use - works brilliantly.

It's way more aggressive than my 1200 grit water stone - you're definitely removing material from the knife, as opposed to a normal steel, which apparently just stands the knife edge up again.

Nice gift.

 

The term of "steel" for a diamond grit hone, no matter the shape, is definitely wrong though (sigh).

 

As you've discovered it really will abrade the knife and does need to be used carefully and gently. The micro serrations it leaves will enable slicing like almost nothing else.

 

(Just in case you haven't discovered it🫣, the best way for amateurs to use a 'steel-shaped object' is to hold it point down, braced on the surface below, and run the knife vertically at the angle you want.) Butcher style takes more practice than I'll ever get, and I started using a steel in 1970.

 

On 09/12/2023 at 4:08 PM, GregWormald said:

The term of "steel" for a diamond grit hone, no matter the shape, is definitely wrong though (sigh).

fair call 👍 - clearly a diamond grit honing rod takes material off the knife, whereas a "steel" is just meant to stand the edge up again.

 

On 09/12/2023 at 4:08 PM, GregWormald said:

As you've discovered it really will abrade the knife and does need to be used carefully and gently. The micro serrations it leaves will enable slicing like almost nothing else.

Really interesting point for working/cooking knives when they need a touch up...

• do you use a steel - which shouldn't remove any knife material?
• do you use a strop, where if it has cutting compound, it removes some knife material?
• do you use a diamond grit honing rod where it removes more knife material?
• do you freshen up the edge on a water stone, which likely removes the most knife material?

Having got all my kitchen knives "sufficiently" sharp on the water stones, I'm OK with touching them up on the diamond grit honing rod - understanding that this removes metal from the knife.

Maybe I should get a nice long steel (the steel I have is too short), and use that before I use the diamond grit hone rod?

 

Mike

I haven't used a steel in decades. It's just too easy for me to micro-chip really hard Japanese steel.

 

Now I use a denim strop loaded with polishing compound first; when that's not enough, a very fine diamond hone for one or two strokes; and when that doesn't work any more (after at least a year or two) out comes the full sharpening gear.

On 26/02/2024 at 2:25 PM, GregWormald said:

I haven't used a steel in decades. It's just too easy for me to micro-chip really hard Japanese steel.

 

Now I use a denim strop loaded with polishing compound first; when that's not enough, a very fine diamond hone for one or two strokes; and when that doesn't work any more (after at least a year or two) out comes the full sharpening gear.

I don't own any Japanese knives 😞 

My good knives are all Wusthof (cook's knife, carving knife, cleaver, and 2 serrated edge knives) and my other knives are all cheap.

 

My technique on my leather strop needs lots of work! - hilariously sometimes my knives cut better through paper after just the water stones (300 then 1200) than they do after the water stones then the strop 😞 😞 ...clearly I'm maintaining my angles better on the water stones than the strop 😞

 

My coarse diamond hone has become my goto device to get a knife cutting nicely again in the middle of cooking something...

...maybe a bad approach given the diamond hone "feels" about as aggressive as my coarse 300 grit water stone???

 

I'm completely fine with using the diamond hone every time to touch up my cheap knives.

I'll work on my stropping technique on my Wusthof knives in between getting the water stones out.

 

Mike