Have a look at 2 Finger Knife Co in America. I have a couple of theirs used for skinning/cleaning large game. They hold a really good edge for the abuse they take and are very reasonably priced. 

An acquaintance of mine makes knives to order

https://www.facebook.com/kevsforge/?ref=ts&fref=ts

Some nice looking knives!

Old thread, I know - but I got given this for my birthday...

28 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

Old thread, I know - but I got given this for my birthday...

Lucky you. 

 

John

2 hours ago, Assisi said:

Lucky you. 

 

John

😊 - it's not really until late July. But at our age, not having anything on the day is fast becoming a blessing! Oh, except for that dinner at Paringa the Friday after...

Edited June 6, 20223 yr by Cloth Ears

We have a motley selection of Wüsthof, Global and a couple of 35+yr old Sabatier knives.  All can be sharpened to a great edge, all require regular maintenance and I use a steel almost daily. 
Our pairing knives, cooks knives get regular use. 
Currently we are staying at my wife’s sisters house in Somerset. The B-in-Law is a son of a butcher and his knives are razor sharp and fit well in the hand - but don’t look for a “named” brand or some artisan made 🔪 .  He’d laugh at paying the money some ppl suggest for their recommended 🔪.  
Purchase a good brand but don’t go overkill. Invest in sharpening stones (3 grades), flattening stones, a couple of knife sharpening guides (to get you used to the angle for using the stones), a good quality steel and a good knife edge sharpening tool for a quick edge reset. 
Knives, BBQs etc. have become like HiFi goods - lots of bling, lots of price ranges and lots of “exclusivity” by price. 
A good knife doesn’t need to be expensive. 
Good maintenance will make a basic knife far exceed the performance of a pricey knife used with little care. 

 

My primary "goto" knife in the kitchen is a Wüsthof chef's knife around 230mm I've owned for >20 years.

 

Years ago we had a Wüsthof sharpener, then another brand sharpener, which both worked OK, but for the last 6 months I've struggled with another "drag through" 3 grade sharpener, which clearly has the wrong profile, as it simply doesn't put an edge on my Wüsthof chef's knife

 

After "sharpening" the knife with the new dodgy device then cutting up/trimming 2kg of gravy beef for the slow cooker, I needed a better sharpening setup.

 

My Youtube surfing turned up the Tumbler sharpening device, which picqued my interest (https://www.tumblerware.com/products/tumbler-rolling-knife-sharpener  )...

Further Youtubing determined this is a direct knockoff of the Horl sharpening device ( https://www.horl.com/us/en/ ), which is more expensive, but has much stronger magnets and swappable discs at different grades at the eye watering price on Amazon of $379

 

On 06/06/2022 at 3:22 PM, frankn said:

Invest in sharpening stones (3 grades), flattening stones, a couple of knife sharpening guides (to get you used to the angle for using the stones), a good quality steel and a good knife edge sharpening tool for a quick edge reset. 

So I decided to go "old school" and today bought 2 whet stones (300 grit and 1200 grit) and a truing/flattening stone, and I'm starting to learn how to sharpen my knives on a stone.

Unfortunately they only had a 15 degree guide available, which is fine for Japanese knives but too shallow for the softer steel of German knives where around 22 degrees is recommended.

 

I sharpened my Wüsthof chefs knife tonight by eye (90 degrees - halve it - halve it again).

I reckon it's nearly as sharp as when I got it new...certainly vastly better than the dodgy sharpener!

 

So many good Youtubes on knife sharpening!

This one is especially good:

The Yanks have a method of setting the angle with nickels.

 

I mucked around tonight with some coins and got an angle around 22-24 degrees with a stack of 5x20c pieces spaced with a 20c piece - I can't guarantee accuracy!

 

My next sharpening investment will be a strop.

 

Mike

The Tumbler looks interesting, but not excellent. The knife cutting the tomato in the video isn't very sharp. Look at the knife sliding along the skin before it starts cutting—and the tomato isn't really ripe which makes it easy to cut.

 

As for a strop @almikel , real ones can expensive but DIY is very cheap. A piece of leather 200mm x 60mm glued to a piece of wood and lightly coated with a metal polishing compound works well. 

 

Rockstead Knives make some of the best (and most expensive!) pocket and sporting knives in the world and have a "make a strop" page. This is what I use for a strop for my kitchen knives as well as the Rocksteads.

 

https://www.rockstead.jp/maintenance/

 

Note that aggressive stropping can make for a very fine polished edge that is less durable while slicing while being better for chopping and push cutting. Slicing is best done with a slightly ragged edge from the sharpening with only a brief strop.

 

You'll soon find what works best for you.

Edited June 5, 20232 yr by GregWormald
added more

On 06/06/2023 at 1:15 AM, almikel said:

I reckon it's nearly as sharp as when I got it new...certainly vastly better than the dodgy sharpener!

the arrogance of beginners! - no way it was nearly as sharp as new!!

As the Karate Sensei says, "do it 1000 times and you begin to learn"...

...I've been practising on a smaller (no name) knife with a less pronounced curve than my much larger Wustof Chef's knife.

 

I've managed to achieve a great edge on the smaller knife and only an OK edge on the larger knife - much more practise required!

 

The full bolster on the Wustof makes it much trickier to sharpen down at the heel of the knife - my smaller knife has no bolster.

I found this video useful for sharpening knives that have a full bolster like Wustof:

 

Even though I knew not to, I still managed to score my strop by making a stroke the wrong way  - a bumbly error which I'm sure there will be many more of!!

 

I'm quite enjoying the process of sharpening my knives on a whet stone/water stone...but there's a learning/skill curve involved!

 

Fun fact: there's no connection between "whet" and water...

"Whet" is old english for "prepare", ie get your edge ready.

 

My dad sharpened chisels and kitchen knives on a whet stone using mineral oil.

"Water" stones just use water for the same purpose as the oil - the water provides lubrication with the whet stone particles creating a grinding paste to take metal away to create the edge.

 

Maintaining a consistent angle is the hardest and most important part of the sharpening process.

 

Mike

 

18 hours ago, almikel said:

Maintaining a consistent angle is the hardest and most important part of the sharpening process.

I was never very good or consistent with hand sharpening on a stone, even after years of trying.

 

It wasn't until I bought a sharpening system (first one was a cheapie,

now a KME with the diamond hones for really hard steels) that I was able to easily beat factory edges.

On 10/06/2023 at 3:21 PM, GregWormald said:

I was never very good or consistent with hand sharpening on a stone, even after years of trying.

That doesn't bode well for me just starting out

My brother says the same - he's significantly more skilled with hand tools than I am but states he's always been shite at using hand sharpening on water stones.  

 

He splurged on a Tormek >10 years ago and loves it, and his knives are always sharp and a pleasure to use...

...my backup plan if I can't get decent results by hand is to take my knives to his place for proper sharpening 👍

He maintains his knife edges with a honing steel often, and a diamond rod when they need a bit more, and the Tormek is only required every few years unless he chips an edge requiring a repair.

 

On 10/06/2023 at 3:21 PM, GregWormald said:

It wasn't until I bought a sharpening system (first one was a cheapie,

now a KME with the diamond hones for really hard steels) that I was able to easily beat factory edges.

I looked at the KME, but maybe foolishly decided to try hand sharpening first. 🥲

 

We have several of the Masterchef knives procured through the Coles promotion, and my wife particularly likes the small pairing knife and the next size up.

Both had been used quite a bit, and the edges had minor chips/imperfections.

I used my 300 stone to get a clean edge, then my 1200 stone , finishing on the strop.

Nice smooth paper cuts and able to shave the hairs on my arm👍...

 

...I'm getting to the point...eventually...

 

My family have always been Wustof fans, and my dad has been sending his Wustof knives back to the free knife sharpening service for years, and they've replaced some of his knives that have been damaged.

I was discussing what he recommended for carving knives - and he pulled out his 20cm Wustof Classic with the scallops on the blade - this is his favourite carving knife.

He then pulled out a brand new Wustof Classic 20cm carver (no scallops) still in the box and gifted it to me saying, "try this one"...thanks dad !!! 

 

Back to the point...

The factory edge of the Wustof carver "out of the box" was OK at cutting paper, but it couldn't shave my arm.

Maybe with a strop it could...a 20cm long blade is a challenge to strop for a bumbly like me!!...

...but of course I'm gonna give it a crack!...

 

Obviously a Masterchef knife is not going to hold an edge like a Wustof (the Masterchef steel won't be as hard as the Wustof) - but I'm encouraged that I was able to get the Masterchef knife sharper with hand sharpening than the factory Wustof.

 

cheers,

Mike

3 hours ago, almikel said:

That doesn't bode well for me just starting out

My brother says the same - he's significantly more skilled with hand tools than I am but states he's always been shite at using hand sharpening on water stones.  

Fortunately there is lots of info on the 'net about sharpening to help you along. When I started sharpening there weren't even personal computers!

 

3 hours ago, almikel said:

He splurged on a Tormek >10 years ago and loves it, and his knives are always sharp and a pleasure to use...

The Tormek is a lovely bit of kit but more expensive than I wanted to go just for hobby and kitchen knives.

 

3 hours ago, almikel said:

I looked at the KME, but maybe foolishly decided to try hand sharpening first. 🥲

 

No, not foolish at all. If you get good then that's great, if not then you still have a lot of experience.

I would really recommend the KME as the cheaper systems (Lansky, etc.) were just OK but were really fussy to use and didn't last.

As far as expense goes the KME runs out about the same as a decent set of Japanese water stones.

3 hours ago, almikel said:

We have several of the Masterchef knives procured through the Coles promotion, and my wife particularly likes the small pairing knife and the next size up.

My family have always been Wustof fans, and my dad has been sending his Wustof knives back to the free knife sharpening service for years, and they've replaced some of his knives that have been damaged.

That's great service! Unfortunately for me I have a reasonable (or maybe unreasonable) collection and sending them away would not work for me. Also I find getting them razor-blade sharp is a part of the hobby.

 

The Wusthof are good knives in the European style. After trying a Japanese knife at a friend's place though, I was spoiled. Compared to my old Sabatier and Victorinox, and my newer Furi knives I liked the lighter, thinner blades and harder steel.

3 hours ago, almikel said:

I was discussing what he recommended for carving knives - and he pulled out his 20cm Wustof Classic with the scallops on the blade - this is his favourite carving knife.

He then pulled out a brand new Wustof Classic 20cm carver (no scallops) still in the box and gifted it to me saying, "try this one"...thanks dad !!! 

Very nice.

3 hours ago, almikel said:

Back to the point...

The factory edge of the Wustof carver "out of the box" was OK at cutting paper, but it couldn't shave my arm.

Maybe with a strop it could...a 20cm long blade is a challenge to strop for a bumbly like me!!...

...but of course I'm gonna give it a crack!...

The flat stroppers are really easy to use, just make it big enough. The 'strap' stroppers (like for razors) do take another whole skill-set though—one I've never attempted to learn.

3 hours ago, almikel said:

Obviously a Masterchef knife is not going to hold an edge like a Wustof (the Masterchef steel won't be as hard as the Wustof) - but I'm encouraged that I was able to get the Masterchef knife sharper with hand sharpening than the factory Wustof.

My favourite sharpness test is to take a telephone book and fold up the edge of a page to 90° in a long triangle running from about 30mm high down to nothing. Then press the edge of the knife down onto the upturned edge and see at what height the knife starts cutting rather than folding the paper.Of course this is "hobby" sharp and totally unnecessary for cooking work.

On 11/6/2023 at 10:18 PM, GregWormald said:

I would really recommend the KME as the cheaper systems (Lansky, etc.) were just OK but were really fussy to use and didn't last.

As far as expense goes the KME runs out about the same as a decent set of Japanese water stones.

 

Unfortunately only goes down to 17 degrees, no good for many Japanese knives.  ☹️

6 hours ago, Kaynin said:

Unfortunately only goes down to 17 degrees, no good for many Japanese knives.  ☹️

Huh? I can get 12° without any issue.

Just turn the angle slider upside down.

7 hours ago, GregWormald said:

Huh? I can get 12° without any issue.

Just turn the angle slider upside down.

 

That's contrary to the advice from a supplier https://www.knifesupplies.com.au/kme-precision-knife-sharpening-system-diamond-hone whom I emailed and received the following text reply -

 

 

 

 

Of course they could be wrong, I might email the manufacturer direct.  I really like the product, but at that price want to make sure it's designed to hit 15 degrees.

@Kaynin

Here you go. The crystal handle was a drawer pull.

Edited June 14, 20232 yr by GregWormald
p.s. A search will find a good price.

On 13/06/2023 at 4:39 PM, Kaynin said:

Unfortunately only goes down to 17 degrees, no good for many Japanese knives.  ☹️

 

20 hours ago, GregWormald said:

Huh? I can get 12° without any issue.

Just turn the angle slider upside down.

wow - that's knowing how to leverage your tools to achieve the desired outcome!

12 hours ago, Kaynin said:

Of course they could be wrong, I might email the manufacturer direct.  I really like the product, but at that price want to make sure it's designed to hit 15 degrees.

Good call!

30 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

@Kaynin

Here you go. The crystal handle was a drawer pull.

Likely a smaller angle than most would ever need!!! ..,unless you're into cut throat razors 

 

I don't own any Japanese knifes, but the Wustof site does state to sharpen their typical knives at 14 degrees, and their "Japanese style" knives at 10 degrees - both seem crazy low for an edge that lasts for general kitchen duties??

https://www.wusthof.com/blog/how-to-sharpen-your-wuesthof-knives

 

Wustof knives are around 58 on the Rockwell scale of hardness - softer than many high end Japanese knives which can have a hardness higher than 60 (which is why 15 degrees is recommended for Japanese steel).

 

As with audio, there's always a trade-off - the harder the steel, the more brittle it is  

Harder Japanese steel knives are known to chip if impacting bone, or twisting the knife under load cutting tough material.

 

Would anyone want to put their knives through the sort of torture tests on "Forged in Fire"?

Not me - I just want a durable edge that cuts meat/sinew and slices tomato cleanly!

 

So much could go badly wrong manually setting angles on whet stones....already I'm not trying to replicate a 14 degree angle on my Wustof knives - an angle of around 20 degrees should be adequate and durable.

 

It will be an interesting experiment to see how long I stick with manual sharpening!

 

Mike

I have both Wusthof knives and Japanese knives. Here's the thing - all knives can be sharpened until they are more than sharp enough for most of us. However, if you want extremely sharp, you need a harder steel. This comes at the cost of price, brittleness, and the need to baby your knives to stop the edge from chipping. I do not let anybody handle the sharpest Japanese knife in my collection, not even wash it. After I wash it, I dry it and put it away myself. My Wusthof knife is for daily general purpose use. But if I want to do some really fine knife work, that Japanese knife comes out. 

12 hours ago, GregWormald said:

@Kaynin

Here you go. The crystal handle was a drawer pull.

 

 

Thanks for that, it's very helpful.  👍

 

Of note, the email reply from the manufacturer is -

 

Hi Kayne,

 

Thanks for writing sir. Even though the lowest angle marked on our scale is 17 degrees, most knives can be sharpened down to 14-15 degrees and even lower on wide blades. On the high end our scale goes to 30 degrees. That’s approximate too though. The angle scales on all clamp systems are actually relative because the distance a blade extends out of the clamp also influences the actual sharpening angle. I’ve attached a drawing that shows how this works. Have a look and please let me know if you have any other questions I can help you with. Thanks very much Kayne!

 

Ron

 

 

Ron Swartz

KME Sharpeners

800 561-4339

www.kmesharp.com

 

 

 

 

Firstly, my email was answered within hours.  Great service support right there.

Secondly, the degree markings are only approximate.  Confirming the sharpening angle at the blade end is required if you want to know the sharpness by angle, not just feel.  

10 hours ago, Keith_W said:

However, if you want extremely sharp, you need a harder steel. This comes at the cost of price, brittleness, and the need to baby your knives to stop the edge from chipping.

Attached is photo of my Damascus steel knife made by Metal Monkey knives.  Lovely patterns.  I did drop it and a very small piece of the tip went.  I sent it back and the tip was redone.  It has a very sharp edge.

John

 

nice

On 15/06/2023 at 8:30 AM, Kaynin said:

 

 

Thanks for that, it's very helpful.  👍

 

Of note, the email reply from the manufacturer is -

 

Hi Kayne,

 

Thanks for writing sir. Even though the lowest angle marked on our scale is 17 degrees, most knives can be sharpened down to 14-15 degrees and even lower on wide blades. On the high end our scale goes to 30 degrees. That’s approximate too though. The angle scales on all clamp systems are actually relative because the distance a blade extends out of the clamp also influences the actual sharpening angle. I’ve attached a drawing that shows how this works. Have a look and please let me know if you have any other questions I can help you with. Thanks very much Kayne!

 

Ron

 

 

Ron Swartz

KME Sharpeners

800 561-4339

www.kmesharp.com

 

 

 

 

Firstly, my email was answered within hours.  Great service support right there.

Secondly, the degree markings are only approximate.  Confirming the sharpening angle at the blade end is required if you want to know the sharpness by angle, not just feel.  

awesome post - gotta love a diagram like this - tells a great story!

 

So far in my very short journey in knife sharpening, most sources stress it's about maintaining a consistent angle rather than the actual angle.

@Kaynin - clearly the KME has good customer service and looks a better product than the cheaper knock-offs...

...I've never used it, and for now I'm persevering with hand sharpening on water stones and a strop...with a ceramic honing rod (with angle guides) next on the shopping list...

 

...last night the boss was praising how sharp the knives were - which is a good start👍

 

On 15/06/2023 at 9:57 AM, Assisi said:

Attached is photo of my Damascus steel knife made by Metal Monkey knives.  Lovely patterns.  I did drop it and a very small piece of the tip went.  I sent it back and the tip was redone.  It has a very sharp edge.

John

 

gorgeous blade!

How do you maintain the edge?

 

Mike

On 14/06/2023 at 11:31 PM, Keith_W said:

I have both Wusthof knives and Japanese knives. Here's the thing - all knives can be sharpened until they are more than sharp enough for most of us. However, if you want extremely sharp, you need a harder steel. This comes at the cost of price, brittleness, and the need to baby your knives to stop the edge from chipping. I do not let anybody handle the sharpest Japanese knife in my collection, not even wash it. After I wash it, I dry it and put it away myself. My Wusthof knife is for daily general purpose use. But if I want to do some really fine knife work, that Japanese knife comes out. 

Hi Keith,

 

how do you maintain the edges on your knives?

 

Mike

Hi Mike, I use an Edge Pro sharpener and a grinder wheel fitted with a polisher for finishing. I wouldn't buy an Edge Pro again though, unless they have revamped the design. A friend of mine has an Australian made sharpener (can't remember the brand) that clamps down on the blade so it won't move, and to sharpen the other side you just rotate the clamp, no need to unclamp it. With my Edge Pro I am always concerned that I might cut myself with the exposed blade, since I have one hand holding the knife and the other holding the lever. 

 

I don't sharpen my Japanese knives very often, maybe once a year. The Wusthof has softer steel and I use them more often, so it requires more frequent sharpening. But I am lazy and I only do them at the same time I do my Japanese knives. 

 

I use the two knives on the left the most often - a Wusthof and a Shun. The other Shun has VG-2 steel and is incredibly sharp. The last knife on the right is another Japanese knife, excellent for wafer thin vegetable slices. 

 

 

Thanks @Keith_W, 

 

Do you use anything for edge maintenance between sharpening? or just the yearly Edge Pro touch up?

 

Now I've got a decent edge on my key knives, I strop them if they're not cutting as well as I expect, and the edge cuts well again rather than grinding more steel off with the stone.

I bought a Wustof steel 30 years ago, but foolishly cheaped out and bought the short one and it's too short to be useful

 

I'll get a ceramic honing rod at some stage, and just use the strop until then for edge maintenance between stone sharpening.

 

Mike