Well Fury, by chance this morning I came across this guy Bob Kramer. I seriously want one of his knives.

lIcAe70-yOY

Now that's a rabbit hole I wasn't anticipating - cheers !!

I went down the King of Knives path last mothers day. Was in there looking for a gift when i saw a 3 set of bismark + block for only $80 down from $499 or something silly like that! Needless to say i bought two sets one for the present and one for me.

Good question . I have cut myself with a moderately sharp knife and it is more like a nick. I have also done it with a razor sharp knife and I have bled profusely and it hurts like hell. I am probably an awkward bugger.

The old adage still stands true - you're only as sharp as your knife

It's mainly due to you having to use more force to cut with a dull knife, therefore increasing the risk of doing harm should you slip.

EDIT:

I went down the King of Knives path last mothers day. Was in there looking for a gift when i saw a 3 set of bismark + block for only $80 down from $499 or something silly like that! Needless to say i bought two sets one for the present and one for me.

I picked up a 26cm Mundial on one of their specials for under $30 - definitely keep an eye out for the clearance deals.

Edited August 17, 201114 yr by protecon

I guess the alure of Damascus steel would be a great conversation starter. It looks fantastic and really appeals to me.

The sensible part of me is telling me to go for something like this:

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/WU9608/wusthof-classic-3-piece-chefs-set

Still great quality and feel (well, going to test them when I get a chance) and the price isn't too bad.

I also want to test Shun knives which are damascus steel too, but not sure where in-store I can see them.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/KSDMS300/shun-classic-japanese-style-3-piece

I will also probably buy a few Victorinox or Swibo knives as they represent fantastic value for money for miscellaneous cutting.

I went down the King of Knives path last mothers day. Was in there looking for a gift when i saw a 3 set of bismark + block for only $80 down from $499 or something silly like that! Needless to say i bought two sets one for the present and one for me.

Wow that seems like a fantastic deal.

I tried out the Bismarcks last time I was there and they did indeed feel quite nice to cut with.

fury, a few things. Here are a few differences between Japanese and German knives. Japanese knives:

- are made from a harder steel (usually around 60 Rockwell, compared to 50-55 Rockwell for most German knives). This means that they hold a better edge, but are more brittle.

- are ground to 17 degrees, as opposed to 23 degrees for German knives.

- all Japanese knives lack a finger guard in the heel

- are generally lighter in the hand than German knives.

In practice, this means that Japanese knives are tremendously sharp, but require more care in use, and more maintenance. If you hit something hard (like a bone) with a German knife, the edge will bend. With a Jap knife, there is a danger that the edge will chip - this has happened with my Shun. German knives lose their edge very quickly, and require steeling more often. I steel my knives every time before I use it. However, Japanese knives lose their sharpness very quickly, and require more frequent sharpening.

If you are after a good every day knife, go German. It is a better choice if you are a klutz and not fanatical about knife maintenance. German knives perform acceptably well - but if you are after the ultimate cutting knife, and you are prepared to learn to use it properly and look after it, get a Japanese knife.

I wouldn't bother with any of the cheaper brands. Buy once, and buy properly - get a Wusthof. Cheaper knives might feel sharp in the shop - but the tang won't run the length of the handle, the handle may be made of cheap plastic, the spine may not be finished properly, etc.

Read this for some tips on knife maintenance.

Danny, you'll never use that little paring knife in the Wustoff set (or in any set for that matter).

The Mundial set linked/pictured on the first page is the same as mine and although i got it pretty cheap ($160 from memory), i still only use the 15cm Utility, 20cm Cook's and bread knives. And the steel rod of course, to keep the edge straight, so there's a few knives there that were effectively a waste of money.

Places like Peters of Kensington, Everten and Victoria's Basement all have some very good prices on a selection of knives/knife sets. If I was buying again, I'd probably just buy a good quality 15cm Utility and 20cm Chef's.

Another thing when buying knives is to consider how easy they will be to maintain - depending on how they are made and their "hardness", some can be very difficult to sharpen properly at home. Also, if buying high carbon content, know the blade will discolour and/or rust with use.

Hattori and Tojiro are some pretty looking knives

Thanks Keith,

Your brief summary is what my research has lead me to understand too.

Ultimately it all comes down to how much effort you put into maintaining the knives, and I do plan on looking after them.

While I liked the feel of the German knives i've tried, I want to try some Japanese knives for comparison before I buy.

That link is also a great read, will go through it in more depth when I get a chance to

Adam: I realise i'll mainly use a ~20cm cooks knife and ~15cm utility knife the most, hence not going for a 7+ piece block set.

I'd buy individually if need be, but otherwise the 3 pack seems excellent value. I think the pairing knife would still get a little use.

I'd buy a cheap bread knife, as these cannot be sharpened due to the serated edge, hence when blunt would be replaced. Also it won't get much use as I mainly buy sliced bread.

I've looked at those websites and sadly none of them are stores in Melbourne.

I really want to go and try out the knives before I purchase.

King of Knives is the only place i've been to and i don't recall any Japanese knives their - not to mention their level of expertise was not high.

Our paring knife does get used but still nowhere near as much as the 20cm chef's knife. You won't be unhappy with the Wusthof Classic range. I haven't tried Shuns but I am sure that the praise they have received has been warranted.

I have a custom made sushi knife made to order by a Japanese knife maker in Hokkido $200, very nice but difficult to maintain because it is carbon steel and sharpened Japanese style.

But I also bought one of these a couple of years ago for making sushi on the minesite and Im rapt in it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-HDL-Ni-Damascus-VG10-stainless-petty-chef-knife-/160638720275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2566d05913

The seller is very straight, Ive had some seriously good deals from him. A full set of japanese saws (5 assorted blades) with leather pouch and 2 handles for $110.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by hybridfiat

Sounds like it.

Funny how that works. My wife is a superb sportsperson, excells at all sports. Yet I cannot bear to even watch her use a knife !!! Fingers and thumbs poking out every which way, eyes closed.....(shudder)

That is so right with Mrs Mustud as well.

A great mental picture as I read your post post, CN.

fury, a few things. Here are a few differences between Japanese and German knives. Japanese knives:

- are made from a harder steel (usually around 60 Rockwell, compared to 50-55 Rockwell for most German knives). This means that they hold a better edge, but are more brittle.

- are ground to 17 degrees, as opposed to 23 degrees for German knives.

- all Japanese knives lack a finger guard in the heel

- are generally lighter in the hand than German knives.

In practice, this means that Japanese knives are tremendously sharp, but require more care in use, and more maintenance. If you hit something hard (like a bone) with a German knife, the edge will bend. With a Jap knife, there is a danger that the edge will chip - this has happened with my Shun. German knives lose their edge very quickly, and require steeling more often. I steel my knives every time before I use it. However, Japanese knives lose their sharpness very quickly, and require more frequent sharpening.

If you are after a good every day knife, go German. It is a better choice if you are a klutz and not fanatical about knife maintenance. German knives perform acceptably well - but if you are after the ultimate cutting knife, and you are prepared to learn to use it properly and look after it, get a Japanese knife.

I wouldn't bother with any of the cheaper brands. Buy once, and buy properly - get a Wusthof. Cheaper knives might feel sharp in the shop - but the tang won't run the length of the handle, the handle may be made of cheap plastic, the spine may not be finished properly, etc.

Read this for some tips on knife maintenance.

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking of posting. Good advice.

Had a few enthusiastic discussions about this. Basically, will steel be worn when sliding across soft timber? I always place the blad upwards, but many others say 'why bother'?

I tend to agree.

The knife is used continually sliding along a cutting board.

Placing it in a bolck equates to two extra slides (one in one out) hardly extra wear.

The old adage still stands true - you're only as sharp as your knife

It's mainly due to you having to use more force to cut with a dull knife, therefore increasing the risk of doing harm should you slip.

EDIT: I picked up a 26cm Mundial on one of their specials for under $30 - definitely keep an eye out for the clearance deals.

Agreed, the extra force in handling a blunt knife can get very ugly when an oops happens.

Cuts with a sharper knife heal better also.

Buy once,buy well!

Fury, a family member is a chef (you know him) who swears by Shun ... and also has access to them at favorable pricing. Might be able to help you out if decide to go down that path. I liked my Global's until I saw his Shun set They do require a lot of care though as mentioned.

Well had the chance to try out both Shun and Wusthof on the weekend.

The Shuns definately seem to cut better with the factory sharpened edge. They also feel lighter in the hand.

I did prefer the contoured handle of the Wusthof better, however the Shuns were still comfortable to use.

My only gripe is that the Shuns are specifically right handed - my missus is left handed...

The blade is a normal 50/50 double edged blade but the handle is a D shape designed for right handers.

While she had no complaints using it (it still cuts better then anything she's used), I wonder if i'd be better off getting a a non right-handed specific knife...

Oh yeah, thanks Marc. Will drop Marc a msg

I use Shun, Global and a 15 year old set of Mundials. The Globals are a workhorse. Brilliant knives with great balance that stay sharp for ages. The Shun's are a masterpiece - it's always a bit of an event using them. The Mundials have been brilliant. A 21st birthday pressie that have never missed a beat. The Mundials and Globals both go in the dishwasher by the way.

If I could only keep one set it would be the Globals.

Al

I'm a little surprised at the German knife love here. Japanese knives are so much more intricate and to me less clumsy imo. I find that my Japanese knives retain their edge very well and are even better with regular priming.

I think you're on to a good thing getting a few select knives rather than a set. Quality not quantity =) Rather than the stuff you can buy in Australia through retail, you can instead buy direct online from the some of the great artisans like Watanabe or through intermediaries for artisans such as Shigefusa. Of note though is that you can get left hand specific knives from these guys for the missus, though it is usually quite a bit extra. Some links here for more info:

http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/ (although try to only look at his pro range, I think his standard range is sub-standard)

http://hides-export.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-you-can-order-and-how.html (have a look through his posts to see examples of these beauties)

Just be careful with the Japanese knives though as you really need to know about the steel you're buying into. Carbon steel while beautiful can be a pain to maintain. Although with regular use, you'll develop a beautiful patina which protects against rust, etc. You do need to wash and dry the blade every few minutes to prevent rust, but this is so fast you'll not even notice it as part of your normal routine.

I have a Shigefusa Kitaeji gyuto arriving soon! Fit and finish on these are supposed to be sublime so I can't wait.

Been looking at buying a set of Knives myself Danny. I looked at King of Knives and had a feel of some of the knives and definitely liked the Wusthof Classic but after looking around at prices there is no way I'll be buying anything in KoK.

I'll probably get something like this http://www.chefknivestogo.com/wucl5pccoset.html from Chef Knives to go, KoK want that price for just the 8" chef's knife.

Hey Luke,

The Wusthofs felt good in the hand but quite heavy. Also all reports state that Japanese knives have a thinner blade that can be sharpened to a sharper edge.

I think i'm pretty much set on the Hattori HD knives from JapaneseChefsKnife.com... Either that or the Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Damascus Series.

Suddenly developed an obsession with Japanese steel.

Looks like someone is a regular customer of Chef's Armory!

Looks like someone is a regular customer of Chef's Armory!

Well picked. The butchers knife and the gyuto from Japanese Natural Stones in Denmark, but other knives from Chefs Armoury. That store is addictive, and my accountant is unimpressed.

It takes one to know one, Zammo

It takes one to know one, Zammo

Ha ha. They helped me out with a saya for my 240mm Yoshiaki Fujiwara gyuto today. Locally made blackbutt. And a bit of sake. And some kishu binchotan. And a stropping block.....stop me please!

Edited April 30, 20169 yr by Zammo