9 hours ago, Drunken Monk said:

 

Just trying to understand , please correct me if I am wrong.

 

1.Most active speakers use Class D amplification? (How about your D&D). If it's class D, is it sonically better than BHK Pre+  BHK 250.

 

 

2 hours ago, wikeeboy said:

 

Hey Srini, the thing about active speakers is that you have the one product doing at least the speaker and amplification side of things, and in the case of buchardt/kii/D&D other features such as DSP, analogue to digital conversion, digital to analogue conversion, streaming etc So you can pretty much have the one product providing all the things necessary to produce the end result/sound.

 

You can't really split out the pre or amplification section of the active speakers alone, so in that sense, you can't compare them apples for apples with what the BHK pre & amp contribute to the sound they produce.

 

 

The above is true for commercially bought 'active spkrs'.  And there seems to be a couple of classes of so-called 'active spkrs':

1. a spkr which has its own amplifier - so that it is fed by a preamp or a source - yet has an internal passive XO between this amp and the drivers.
2. and a spkr which is fed by a preamp or a source - yet has an active XO and an amplifier for each driver.

 

And then there are spkrs like my 3-way Maggies - which have had their internal passive XO replaced by an active XO (analogue or digital) and have one amplifier channel per driver.  In my case these are currently Class AB amps.

 

Andy

 

Edited February 12, 20215 yr by andyr

Comparison of Heavenly Soundworks, Buchardt, D&D, and Kii.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-heavenly-soundworks-five17-r984/

How fixable are active speakers? If the dac breaks down, is it serviceable?

 

It's my only real worry about all in one systems, that when it breaks - effectively it's all broken.

On 12/02/2021 at 1:43 PM, Drunken Monk said:

Most active speakers use Class D amplification? (How about your D&D). If it's class D is it sonically better than BHK Pre+  BHK 250.

Yes, the d&d has onboard class d amps. 
 

I’ve never been one for trusting anything other than my ears. I certainly haven’t lost anything with the d&d’s compared to my old BHK / spendor combo. Initially i thought the spendors might have put out a slightly bigger sound but as the d&d’s have run in & my ears have adjusted I don’t think it’s the case anymore. The d&d’s definitely put out more bass than my spendor’s and I no longer need a sub to fill in the bottom end. 
 

The bottom line is I feel I’ve moved sideways in some ways & forward in others. It’s been a good move. 

Edited February 13, 20215 yr by Jhsg

22 hours ago, warweary said:

How fixable are active speakers? If the dac breaks down, is it serviceable?

 

It's my only real worry about all in one systems, that when it breaks - effectively it's all broken.

Good question but something that’s not isolated to d&d or Kii. I had some issues with my BHK pre when I first bought it and it took a LONG time for PS Audio and the Australian importer to resolve the issue. So long that I ended up buying another preamp to fill the gap while I waited.  

 

What I will say is d&d customer service has been great so far. I’ve connected with the CEO and spoke with him a number of times over Facebook. He’s been helpful & responsive. I haven’t dealt directly with the d&d Australian importer yet (don’t even know who it is?) but I have faith in the retailer I used @Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi to help me resolve issues. 
 

Edited February 13, 20215 yr by Jhsg

D&D importer is Bill McLean (McLeans Hifi QLD). Really nice bloke.

2 minutes ago, wikeeboy said:

D&D importer is Bill McLean (McLeans Hifi QLD). Really nice bloke.

I heard Bill isn’t doing it anymore & they are using someone in Melbourne now? The speakers were dropped shipped to me from a melb address. 

32 minutes ago, Jhsg said:

I heard Bill isn’t doing it anymore & they are using someone in Melbourne now? The speakers were dropped shipped to me from a melb address. 

 

Oh really? Hadn't heard that. 

On 13/02/2021 at 11:57 AM, warweary said:

How fixable are active speakers? If the dac breaks down, is it serviceable?

 

It's my only real worry about all in one systems, that when it breaks - effectively it's all broken.

All things are fixable, whether they are active speakers or components. 

 

The bigger question is whether someone is ready to embrace a simplified setup with all-in-one?  I have been trying to encourage people to go for simplified setups with limited success.  Some enjoy the thrill of getting the next upgrade, thus will never adopt simplicity. Others are "trapped" in their setups, having spent years, lots of effort and $$$$$ and are thus reluctant to let go for a simpler, maybe cheaper setup which can sound just as good.  I was in this group.   Yet others are too new in their music journey to understand and appreciate what simplicity can deliver in SQ.

 

Until you are ready, it is difficult to make a jump to a setup with the D&D 8C (or others)...

Edited February 14, 20215 yr by Snoopy8
Typo

23 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

All things are fixable, whether they are active speakers or components.

 

Well, maybe. If a main board goes on one of these things in 10 years time I doubt it is fixable but rather would needs replacing and will it be available in 10 years time?

 

23 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Some enjoy the thrill of getting the next upgrade, thus will never adopt simplicity.

 

Some can get stuck on the upgrade merry-go-round with active speakers too. ?

Hey John,

does the BHK pre make any improvement or

soundstage benefit in your setup? As there is DSP in place at the speakers, how important on front end to feed them?

On 05/02/2021 at 6:34 PM, Satanica said:

is without equal, see below.

Scales on those chart make them quite difficult to compare  

On 12/02/2021 at 10:52 AM, wikeeboy said:

 

Those whispers have been around for a while unfortunately. IMO it's taken them way too long to come up with something which no doubt has significantly impacted sales. Even as a short term solution they could look at something like Buchardt has done, an off the shelf hub with WISA compatibility. Beauty of that is Buchardt can go to market with a decent workable hub, and in the background they've ben working on their own premium proprietary hub (soon to be released).

 

These things are harder to develop to 'prime time' than it might seem for a small company (like D/D)...

 

Ask me how I know.....    

 

(I'm not the sort of person who likes to "go with something very basic" ..... but it looking more and more like that will b the only workable way).

 

On 12/02/2021 at 9:21 PM, Snoopy8 said:

What is clear for many active owner speakers is that, we seldom move back to passive speakers. I am on my third set.,,

 

Audiophiles wax lyrical about their multi thousand dollar amplifies and xpnsiv drivers..... and the thy move to amplifies that are $50 per channel and $20 drivers and say it's better.   Says a lot.    

On 12/02/2021 at 1:43 PM, Drunken Monk said:

1.Most active speakers use Class D amplification? (How about your D&D).

 

Yes.... by Pascal.

 

The DSP, etc is implemented on a computer, looks like a Beagle (similar to a raspberry pi)

 

On 12/02/2021 at 1:43 PM, Drunken Monk said:

2.Kii, Buchdart does have class D or class AB amplification?

D
Both Hypex (yes, for Kii, and "I think" for Buchardt)

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

Says a lot.    

 

I should clarify that I mean it says a lot about what is required for high performance sound...... not "a lot" about the person, or their ears, or anything.

On 12/02/2021 at 2:46 PM, Satanica said:

 

Class D.

 

https://www.buchardtaudio.com/products/a500-white

https://www.heynowhifi.com.au/products/dutch-dutch-8c-studio-monitor-full-range-active-loudspeakers

Hi Satanica 

I saw the link you posted was broken 

I thought I'd amend it. thanks for posting it. 

 

https://www.heynowhifi.com.au/collections/dutch-dutch/products/dutch-dutch-8c-full-range-active-monitor-loudspeakers-pair

 

Kind regards 

Geoff 

On 15/02/2021 at 12:23 PM, Satanica said:

 

Well, maybe. If a main board goes on one of these things in 10 years time I doubt it is fixable but rather would needs replacing and will it be available in 10 years time?

 

 

Some can get stuck on the upgrade merry-go-round with active speakers too. ?

Hey folks.

Fascinating discussion, thanks a heap!

I too have heard the Dutch & Dutch 8cs, quite phenomenal in my humble opinion.

The point of longevity and serviceability is an important one for us here in the Antipodes.

I've been involved with both professional studio audio, and consumer Hi Fi for quite some time, and if I may be allowed to make an observation or two?

 

Longevity and reliability are indeed important topics. No one wants to buy expensive equipment with the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that it may be unsupported or abandoned shortly after. Let's face it, most audio gear now is pretty damned reliable , and failure usually takes place within a month or so of in-field use, or maybe a decade or two hence, when capacitors and power supplies become weary. This said, I've witnessed many excellent brands sailing into their third or fourth decade of life with flying colours.

 

Satanica, your post is especially salient as you live a considerable distance from the major capitals, AND you are in a tropical climate.. cause for concern indeed!

 

Unless you are dealing with an unscrupulous manufacturer or have something ultra esoteric, parts and support should generally be ok for the most part. The better active speakers have a simple modular amp/DSP board that is easy to replace in field. 

 

Ultimately everything will fail, and we will all die. Entropy wins in the end.

To paraphrase the user manual of the Pass Labs Aleph 3:

 

"One day, the capacitors will weaken, the power supply will fail to deliver the correct voltage... and the Sun will go supernova"

 

Existential wisdom if there ever was.

On 14/02/2021 at 12:29 PM, Snoopy8 said:

All things are fixable, whether they are active speakers or components. 

 

The bigger question is whether someone is ready to embrace a simplified setup with all-in-one?  I have been trying to encourage people to go for simplified setups with limited success.  Some enjoy the thrill of getting the next upgrade, thus will never adopt simplicity. Others are "trapped" in their setups, having spent years, lots of effort and $$$$$ and are thus reluctant to let go for a simpler, maybe cheaper setup which can sound just as good.  I was in this group.   Yet others are too new in their music journey to understand and appreciate what simplicity can deliver in SQ.

 

Until you are ready, it is difficult to make a jump to a setup with the D&D 8C (or others)...

On 15/02/2021 at 12:23 PM, Satanica said:

 

Well, maybe. If a main board goes on one of these things in 10 years time I doubt it is fixable but rather would needs replacing and will it be available in 10 years time?

 

 

Some can get stuck on the upgrade merry-go-round with active speakers too. ?

I have resisted attempts a many to flutter around different actives.... only simply because i have spent a lot on my CX4Fs - still going no issues touch wood after 11 years.  Plus Stuart is around the corner give or take 30 min drive should anything go wrong!

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by MrBurns84

1 hour ago, MrBurns84 said:

Indeed and well said! I too was a slave to endless expensive and complex audio systems, (how my partner put up with it I shall never know). It's liberating to go active with a good front end. It gets us back to the music instead of the endless unsatisfying fetishism of gear; just saying. ?

3 hours ago, Erudite Philistine said:

Indeed and well said! I too was a slave to endless expensive and complex audio systems, (how my partner put up with it I shall never know). It's liberating to go active with a good front end. It gets us back to the music instead of the endless unsatisfying fetishism of gear; just saying. ?

 

Couldn't agree more.

There’s a good group on Facebook for the Dutch 8c’s. Some really impressive setups being posted!! 
 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/449617959639445/