Another %#&@ing “recommend me an amp” thread

[RankStranger]

Howdy, all.

 

I’m a month or so off having the funds together to buy an integrated amp to get me through the next 5-10 years. I was in the industry more or less throughout the aughts until early 2011 and I still read a bit of hifi press but I don’t feel like I’m really on top of all of what’s out there at the moment. I'm hoping you fine folks can help me with a short-list of what I should listen to. Happy to lug my speakers and a known source around the place to try things out. I've been planning this in some form or other for 3 years so I'm not in a rush.

 

My speakers are Amphion Argon 2 Anniversary (Specs: Principle: 2 way, bass-reflex • Frequency range: 40-30.000 Hz • Sensitivity: 86 dB • Impedance: 8 ohm (min. 7 ohm) • Crossover: 1200 Hz • Units: 6½” aluminium bass/midrange and a 1” titanium dome • Dimensions: 38 x 19 x 31 cm (H x B x D) • Weight: 11 kg each) plus I run a matching Amphion Impact500 sub via speaker level (yep, sounds best) off the one pair of binding posts. For context, the speakers and sub each retailed around $4k when new in around 2010ish. I love these dearly and I don't see myself changing them any time in the foreseeable future. The monitors are (to me, at least) very clean, open and neutral-sounding (very popular in pro studios) and because of where I worked, I heard them with different amps up to 5-figure pre/power combos so I know I can get more out of them than I'm getting.

 

My living/dining/kitchen where they live is a bit irregular but around 4m x 7m with standard ceilings and they’re on the short wall. I listen around 3 metres away. Only two line level sources in use which will be upgraded but will initially be my Pi/Allo Boss player and Audio Technica LP5 (with integrated phono) with 80% or so of my listening digital. Music is a fairly wide range encompassing Tom Waits, Radiohead, Mogwai, Bill Frisell, Wilco, modern jazz, bluegrass, a bit of classical, some 90s rock, occasional electronic/hip hop, beard-folk, guitar pop, etc, etc, etc. Generally, texture and finesse is more important than dynamics but what's the point of having your cake if you don't get to eat it too?

 

So, my logistical requirements are two or more line level inputs, one balanced input (strong preference fo future-proofing) and remote control is non-negotiable (yes, I'm lazy but mostly it's because I listen late with kids sleeping in the house so I often have to ride the volume. I've tried a non-remote amp and it doesn't work for me. Plus: lazy). Definitely one-box integrated, I'm not looking for pre-power or separate PSUs. I'm not fussed about phono inputs, headphone outputs or stuff like that. If they're there, great, if not, I can add them over time. I'd prefer no in-built DAC or streamer, as I'm planning to add something somewhere between a Klein III/Node 2 combo and an AURALiC Altair G1 down the track. I basically don't want to pay for a bunch of fluff I won't use. As a rule, I like minimal

 

Budget is in the $1000-$2000 range. I still have some contacts in the industry so there's a bit of sponginess there, depending on the brand. This isn't a WTB thread but I'm open to secondhand as long as it's sufficiently compelling value and less than around 10 years old. If you have something you're thinking of moving on and not in a screaming rush, drop me a PM)

 

Rotel is a no. Nothing against them per se but I worked for Encel so I'm all Rotel'd out. Aside from that I'm open to suggestions. My instinct is to go for class AB, solid state but I'm open to valves or class D as long as they meet the criteria and I can listen before I buy. I never heard a class D amp that I liked for music but I understand they've come a long way in 10 years. DIY is off the table for this. I'm exploring that separately but not in my main system.

 

Like anyone, I have my biases but I know there's a lot of experience and knowledge out there so, take me to school

Edited June 16, 2020 by RankStranger

[Ittaku]

First of all, a warning if you're considering a class D amplifier - and I do think in that price range it would be the best bang for your buck. Their speaker terminals in class D amps almost always are "floating" and the neutral is NOT grounded. That means if you're using a subwoofer off the speaker level outputs, you will need a special adapter as many subwoofers have ground as their neutral terminal and this would short out the amplifier.

[RankStranger]

11 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

First of all, a warning if you're considering a class D amplifier - and I do think in that price range it would be the best bang for your buck. Their speaker terminals in class D amps almost always are "floating" and the neutral is NOT grounded. That means if you're using a subwoofer off the speaker level outputs, you will need a special adapter as many subwoofers have ground as their neutral terminal and this would short out the amplifier.

That is good to know. Thanks for the heads up  

[nonsynchro]

No Rotel?? But what about this one?

https://hifidisposals.com/collections/rotel/products/rotel-ra-1572-silver

[RankStranger]

Yep, no Rotel  

 

I’m sure it’s great value. It’s not for me though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[wen]

if you have listened to your speakers with amps in the $5k, and you feel you can get more out of them, how do you hope to get more out of them at $1 to 2K ? What amp do you have at the moment that isn't cutting it, this may give some idea as to what to suggest.

[RankStranger]

Just now, wen said:

if you have listened to your speakers with amps in the $5k, and you feel you can get more out of them, how do you hope to get more out of them at $1 to 2K ? What amp do you have at the moment that isn't cutting it, this may give some idea as to what to suggest.

Thanks for asking. Sorry, I was unclear with that bit. I don’t expect to get more than I’ve heard with those amps, just more than I’m getting now. I only mentioned that to illustrate that I know the speakers aren’t the weak link.

 

I’m currently using a Redgum SonofaGUM. It’s fine but I know I can get better. I was running them off a Naim Unitiqute for a few years which I sold A couple of years ago to upgrade then everything went a bit pear-shaped and I’m just getting back on my feet, stereo-wise. 

[andyr]

9 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Thanks for asking. Sorry, I was unclear with that bit. I don’t expect to get more than I’ve heard with those amps, just more than I’m getting now. I only mentioned that to illustrate that I know the speakers aren’t the weak link.

 

I’m currently using a Redgum SonofaGUM. It’s fine but I know I can get better. I was running them off a Naim Unitiqute for a few years which I sold A couple of years ago to upgrade then everything went a bit pear-shaped and I’m just getting back on my feet, stereo-wise. 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Happy to bring over my AKSA 'Soraya' monoblocs - specced at 100w into 8 ohms and measured (into clipping) at 180w into 4 ohms.  So they will drive most speakers.

 

If you like them ... then, although the Sorayas are no longer available, it will give you the flavour of how Hugh Dean's latest amps sound.

 

Andy

 

[RankStranger]

5 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Hi Simon,

 

Happy to bring over my AKSA 'Soraya' monoblocs - specced at 100w into 8 ohms and measured (into clipping) at 180w into 4 ohms.  So they will drive most speakers.

 

If you like them ... then, although the Sorayas are no longer available, it will give you the flavour of how Hugh Dean's latest amps sound.

 

Andy

 

Thanks, Andy. I bet they sound amazing but I want to stick to integrateds and, as far as I’m aware, Hugh just does power amps.

[Martykt]

@RankStranger, if texture and finesse is your thing given your budget I would be suggesting going with tubes.  
The only issue is at 86db tubes might struggle to drive your speakers, you would just have to try it with a demo or loan amp and hope your impedance curve is benign enough.

Worth trying.

[RankStranger]

Just now, Martykt said:

@RankStranger, if texture and finesse is your thing given your budget I would be suggesting going with tubes.  
The only issue is at 86db tubes might struggle to drive your speakers, you would just have to try it with a demo or loan amp and hope your impedance curve is benign enough.

Worth trying.

Thanks, Marty. Yeah, I’m aware efficiency is an issue but they apparently don’t drop below 7ohm so not super-hard to drive. The 40wpc Naim worked fine with them at any usable volume but I doubt I’m going to get much out of them with 15-20 watts. I’ve never been that into valves (apart from the look) but maybe I just haven’t heard the right amp?

[Martykt]

15 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Thanks, Marty. Yeah, I’m aware efficiency is an issue but they apparently don’t drop below 7ohm so not super-hard to drive. The 40wpc Naim worked fine with them at any usable volume but I doubt I’m going to get much out of them with 15-20 watts. I’ve never been that into valves (apart from the look) but maybe I just haven’t heard the right amp?

Yes in your situation a low wattage amp probably wouldn't cut it, you'd be more wanting a 211 or 845 single ended amp which would give around 25 watts (more pwer than you'd expect) or a push-pull kt120 or kt150 amp which would give you around 35-45 watts.

 

Maybe, there are good tube amps and not so good tube amps with glaring deficiencies.

A good tube amp should breathe more life into the music with with more texture and finesse and a more holographic soundstage.

You may just prefer the sound of a Solid State amp which is perfectly fine.

[RankStranger]

4 minutes ago, Martykt said:

Yes in your situation a low wattage amp probably wouldn't cut it, you'd be more wanting a 211 or 845 single ended amp which would give around 25 watts (more pwer than you'd expect) or a push-pull kt120 or kt150 amp which would give you around 35-45 watts.

 

Maybe, there are good tube amps and not so good tube amps with glaring deficiencies.

A good tube amp should breathe more life into the music with with more texture and finesse and a more holographic soundstage.

You may just prefer the sound of a Solid State amp which is perfectly fine.

My valve experience is mostly limited to some brief time with PrimaLuna which I quite liked but I was never smitten with them. It was a long time ago though. I think my taste is more suited to solid state but I’m trying to keep an open mind. There’s practical considerations too, like having hot/fragile glass around kids. I know you get a cage but, still...

[Martykt]

2 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

My valve experience is mostly limited to some brief time with PrimaLuna which I quite liked but I was never smitten with them. It was a long time ago though. I think my taste is more suited to solid state but I’m trying to keep an open mind. There’s practical considerations too, like having hot/fragile glass around kids. I know you get a cage but, still...

An open mind is a great thing and I'm guessing one reason why you started this thread.  

 

My thinking is getting taught to not touch the hot fragile thing or generally hot thing like stove from a young age is good for their development.  Learning there are things that you shouldn't touch is a very valuable skill !!  

 

What was it about the PrimaLuna that you didn't connect?

[RankStranger]

18 minutes ago, Martykt said:

An open mind is a great thing and I'm guessing one reason why you started this thread.  

 

My thinking is getting taught to not touch the hot fragile thing or generally hot thing like stove from a young age is good for their development.  Learning there are things that you shouldn't touch is a very valuable skill !!  

 

What was it about the PrimaLuna that you didn't connect?

Let’s say I’m trying to not be ruled by my biases.  

 

Again, it’s been a while but my memory is of a slightly softened lower mid and bass that didn’t appeal to me. Lovely top end but without the control in the bass to give you that speed and snap when you need it. I can’t abide slow, soft or over-cooked bass. I’d rather have none 

[Martykt]

6 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Let’s say I’m trying to not be ruled by my biases.  

 

Again, it’s been a while but my memory is of a slightly softened lower mid and bass that didn’t appeal to me. Lovely top end but without the control in the bass to give you that speed and snap when you need it. I can’t abide slow, soft or over-cooked bass. I’d rather have none 

That sounds to me like it's either one of those amps with glaring deficiencies that I was talking about or it was struggling to drive your speakers.

 

If you're curious I'm happy to have you over one evening to see what tubes can do in my system.

It may not be exactly pertaining to your search as they're separates and in a much higher price bracket but you're more than welcome anyway and may give you an idea if it's a direction worth investigating.  

[RankStranger]

6 hours ago, Martykt said:

That sounds to me like it's either one of those amps with glaring deficiencies that I was talking about or it was struggling to drive your speakers.

 

If you're curious I'm happy to have you over one evening to see what tubes can do in my system.

It may not be exactly pertaining to your search as they're separates and in a much higher price bracket but you're more than welcome anyway and may give you an idea if it's a direction worth investigating.  

Thanks for the offer. I have no doubt there are valve amps out there that will make my speakers sing like I’ve never heard them before. The key is whether there’ll be something in my budget that I like better than the solid state stuff in my budget. Due to their efficiency, I’m not confident there is

[Ittaku]

18 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Thanks for the offer. I have no doubt there are valve amps out there that will make my speakers sing like I’ve never heard them before. The key is whether there’ll be something in my budget that I like better than the solid state stuff in my budget. Due to their efficiency, I’m not confident there is

Considering your requirements of inputs and remote, most integrated valve amps are off the cards in that price range anyway.

[RankStranger]

3 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Considering your requirements of inputs and remote, most integrated valve amps are off the cards in that price range anyway.

Yep ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Ittaku]

Balanced inputs in that price range new are hard to come by. Probably something like this would fit the bill?

https://www.stereophonic.com.au/cambridge-audio-cxa80-integrated-amplifier/

[Fitzroyalty]

If you can stretch a bit this Rogue Audio seems popular in the US for ‘good sound, less flash/marketing’ types:

http://www.mcleans.info/shop/productDetails.do?categoryId=1232&productId=264748
 

Or a Rega Elex R?

[RankStranger]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Balanced inputs in that price range new are hard to come by. Probably something like this would fit the bill?

https://www.stereophonic.com.au/cambridge-audio-cxa80-integrated-amplifier/

Yeah, I’m probably more likely to get balanced on 2nd hand

 

I’d definitely give it a listen (there’s even one on gumtree for $800) but it’s hard to shake the feeling that I’m paying for a dac and other stuff I’m unlikely to use. I know Cambridge changed things up a lot around 10 years ago but the Cambridge of my era was extremely underwhelming so I’m just going to have to try to listen

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, RankStranger said:

Yeah, I’m probably more likely to get balanced on 2nd hand

 

I’d definitely give it a listen (there’s even one on gumtree for $800) but it’s hard to shake the feeling that I’m paying for a dac and other stuff I’m unlikely to use. I know Cambridge changed things up a lot around 10 years ago but the Cambridge of my era was extremely underwhelming so I’m just going to have to try to listen

Yeah, it's a recommendation unheard so I wouldn't put too much weight on it. Second hand is definitely the way to go, just gotta wait for the right thing to come up.

[RankStranger]

48 minutes ago, Fitzroyalty said:

If you can stretch a bit this Rogue Audio seems popular in the US for ‘good sound, less flash/marketing’ types:

http://www.mcleans.info/shop/productDetails.do?categoryId=1232&productId=264748
 

Or a Rega Elex R?

The Rega will definitely be on my “to listen” list. 

 

The Rogue is intriguing and ticks most of the boxes but, as far as I’m aware, no one else stocks it apart from Macleans and I’m in Melbourne. Do you know of other stockists?

[Fitzroyalty]

@RankStranger I don’t know any Rogue dealers down here unfortunately. They seem like a great brand. 
Make sure to check out Carlton AV of course. I’d also be considering newish 2nd hand units