6moons review of SGR Elite amp

[Nigel]

I think this has been said before...6Moons never says anything bad about anything. Many people totally disregard their reviews as little more than advertising.

Suggest SGR give their products to someone a bit more balanced/credible .....

(No reflection on SGR at all)

[proftournesol]

I think that another way of saying that Nigel is that it's difficult to know just how critical 6moons reviews are in the absence of anything that even borders on fault finding or concerns with equipment that has been reviewed. I did read one review that did bag a faulty and poorly made item but that's all I can remember from hundreds of 6moons reviews. This leaves one to wonder if the truly excellent products are being praised in the same way as "less truly excellent". It's not a comment on Edgar or any particular review, but the overall tone of the 6moons site.

Edited August 25, 2010 by proftournesol

[Keith_W]

Suggest SGR give their products to someone a bit more balanced/credible .....

(No reflection on SGR at all)

And no reflection on SNA member kramered whose reputation you are impugning?

[proftournesol]

And no reflection on SNA member kramered whose reputation you are impugning?

of course not but that's the problem - Edgar puts in lots of work as do other reviewers, their opinions may be reproducable by many others, but it's difficult to know as a reader just how critical the 6moons site is.

[Orpheus]

Yes, I don't think anyone is having a go at Edgar.

The review is detailed and careful, and provides a reasonable assessment (in my opinion, having (I think) heard a version of that amplifier) of the basic character of that amp, and what it does well.

It just happens to be a fact that the reviews tend to be very positive. Not that there's anything wrong with that; after all, in the end, you have to listen to things and make up your own mind.

This is equally true with my own reference site, stereophile. They are prepared to damn with faint praise, which makes them slightly less positive, and slightly easier to rely on.

However, even they are fallible.

In particular, Art Dudley seems to love anything, and I don't think this is commercial bias of any kind, because he wrote a glowing review of the SOny Playstation, thus demonstrating his bona fides and his unreliability in the one article.

BTW, I knew I spoke to soon when I remarked on our well-behaved this thread was....

BTW 2; I am not suggesting that the PS is not significantly better than it ought to be given its true purpose, and I particularly like the work that MC240 has done on his PS. However, the praise was out of all proportion to the quality of the sound.

BTW 3; I suggest anyone who is curious go and have a listen to SGR's products when they are in Melbourne, because the overall package will appeal to many.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Orpheus

[Moondog]

Great Insight into a hard working and talented Aussie family business, All businesses have competitors and these folks

are on a mission to raise the bar in a very competitive industry.

MD

[Paul Spencer]

Good to see SGR doing well and expanding and the review was a good read.

Frankly the positive review thing is very very common as we all know. How many negative reviews have you read? They are very rare.

[Nigel]

Yep, Profs last post sums it up well.

[unclemack]

But then, when was the last time anyone heard a mid to high end amp and thought..."that's terrible"?

Maybe most of the gear that get's reviewed is actually pretty good therefore the reviews reflect that?

Is this naive?

Cheers

M

Good to see SGR doing well and expanding and the review was a good read.

Frankly the positive review thing is very very common as we all know. How many negative reviews have you read? They are very rare.

[Paul Spencer]

Uncle Mack, I had similar thoughts.

[jrisles]

Good review and well done. The design of these speakers took me back to the mid 90's. Anyone remember a UK audio company called Alchemist Audio from the 90's? The design of this amp reminded me very much of these amplifiers. Can't say i ever saw any Alchemist Audio products in Australia then or now for that matter. I thought the design was pretty radical back then.

http://www.alchemisthifi.info/ranges/kraken/alchemist_kraken_apd6_integrated_amplifier.htm#images

[Guest guru]

i think edgar did a good job of introducing sgr to a wider audience and cite that there were roughly 25.5 paragraphs of history, introduction and technical from both parties and 6.5 paragraphs of what it actually sounded like with 3 pieces of music.

regards,g.

[NellyJamba]

Good review and well done. The design of these speakers took me back to the mid 90's. Anyone remember a UK audio company called Alchemist Audio from the 90's? The design of this amp reminded me very much of these amplifiers. Can't say i ever saw any Alchemist Audio products in Australia then or now for that matter. I thought the design was pretty radical back then.

http://www.alchemisthifi.info/ranges/kraken/alchemist_kraken_apd6_integrated_amplifier.htm#images

Walk down memory lane. Alchemist Kraken was on my wish list when I started Hi Fi. It was What Hi Fi's favourite in 1994. I still remember their unique heatsink winged on both ends. I liked that intimidating look. Fast forward 2010, and it is SGR pushing the envelope further.

Good to see another Aussie (Melbourne, yesh!) company doing well. Where is the new SGR factory located?

Thanks for the link, Jasper.

[Guest Drizzt]

What about an open day of the new production factory for SNA members in the future?

Count me in. I haven't made it over to see the new diggs yet.

[Guest Drizzt]

Count me in. I haven't made it over to see the new diggs yet.

Any movement on this front ?

[Mika75]

Good review and well done. The design of these speakers took me back to the mid 90's. Anyone remember a UK audio company called Alchemist Audio from the 90's? The design of this amp reminded me very much of these amplifiers. Can't say i ever saw any Alchemist Audio products in Australia then or now for that matter. I thought the design was pretty radical back then.

Good memory JR.

One has to wonder how SGR can manufacture such modern loudspeakers, and then come up with this?

What were they thinking with this spiky contraption? How does one pick this up without being bitten?

They really need to look at what the competition is doing ...it should have been alot more subtle.

[leck]

Its the type of design that is obviously going to polarize opinion.

Personally speaking I like it. I like how it looks a little different, and they look very good in the flesh.

[josh0571]

Well thank goodness someone has made some effort to unlock what seems to be the complete and utter mystery behind SGR amps. Does anyone know anything about SGR amps other than that they look great - well interesting and maybe unique? Perhaps some of their owners on SNA can talk about how they sound? For what is probably a world-class Aussie audio product - the few that we have - we should be trying to flog them.....geez:)

[norpus]

Good to see Stuarts products getting international coverage - not always easy from this remote part of the world

Having owned the first cabs off the rank, I must say I have not been disappointed in any way. They can do subtle and they can sure go hard also. No complaints here, I think they are brilliant. The toggle options on the back give owners full control of the looks and operation - something a bit extra on a power amp

I personally liked the look of the prototypes I was shown originally and was happy to select the grey granite and black heatsink (of the several choices) that you see here in the photos. I think I chose well.

[Young Skywalker]

What were they thinking with this spiky contraption? How does one pick this up without being bitten?

Speaking from an owner/user's perspective one couldn't slice cleanly through a peeled banana with the heatsinks.... not that I have tried but hopefully you get the picture. I once heard that Harry spends hours deburring them by hand.

YS

[rippingdragon]

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I was trying to get my own review finished first before commenting on someone else's. It was very well written and I devoured it earlier with great interest. Nice work EK! It's always interesting to see how SGR is perceived outside of the circle of SNA members. It was also good to see impressions from someone who doesn't own and hasn't committed money to purchasing one of the products.

Unfortunately only a small portion of the review was devoted to the actual sonic qualities of the amp. I can understand this choice though as to most readers of Six Moons, SGR is an unknown entity. Furthermore, learning about SGR's philosophy and attention to detail does shed some light on what performance a listener could expect from their products, even if these particular qualities weren't elaborated on overly much in the review.

Well thank goodness someone has made some effort to unlock what seems to be the complete and utter mystery behind SGR amps. Does anyone know anything about SGR amps other than that they look great - well interesting and maybe unique? Perhaps some of their owners on SNA can talk about how they sound? For what is probably a world-class Aussie audio product - the few that we have - we should be trying to flog them.....geez:)

I used to have a pair of passive Dynaudio C2's driven by a Musical Fidelity KW500 integrated amp. I upgraded to some active SGR speakers so both the amp and speakers had to go. My amp sold first and Stuart was kind enough to lend me the lower powered version, the EL15, so that I could continue to demo my speakers until they sold (talk about excellent service!). My speakers unfortunately sold within a week of borrowing the EL15 amp. Granted it was fortunate in that it did let me fund the upgrade but I wanted to hang on to it a little longer for some more listening. It was a cracker of an amp. The fact that my speakers sold so quickly after putting the SGR amp into the system also speaks highly of its performance, especially considering the fact that they had been on the market with no luck for three months prior to adding the amp into the system.

The amp I replaced was certainly no slouch either being Musical Fidelity’s flagship $12,000 integrated amp at the time. When I put the EL15 in the system I was also lacking a preamp so I had to use the digital volume control on my Slim Devices Transporter which is sub-optimal and in some listening tests I’ve done has shown reduced dynamics and resolution and a slight increase in harshness/clinicality when compared to a good dedicated preamp. The EL15’s performance really surprised me especially given the handicap it had going in. For my preferences, it left the Musical Fidelity KW500 dead in the water. I’ve always been in the speakers first camp and this amp made me change some of my preconception in this arena. When I’ve previously compared electronics the difference between quality components has been subtle when compared to the differences between speakers (provided both amps are reasonably specced/capable to handle the speaker’s load). The EL15 however introduced changes nearly on par with upgrading speakers.

I didn’t spend too much time with it so I can only do a brief run-down of how it compared to the Musical Fidelity KW500:

• Slight Increase in Resolution (say from a score of 9 out of 10 to a new score of 9.2)
  
• Medium Increase in transparency (from 8.5 to 9)
  
• Very significant increase in imaging and soundstaging (from 8 to 9)
  
• Significant increase in all aspects of bass from depth to control (from 8.5 to 9.2)
  
• Slight increase in speed (from 8.5 to 8.7)
  

The starting scores above are borrowed from my CX4F review where I explain my 10 point rating system and rated both my new and old system. This review is available here if you are interested in further SGR related reading.

The KW500 however was warmer and smoother (due to slightly blurred transients/attack) which you might like more but is a sound signature I’ve tired of and am moving away from. The EL15 is also incredibly revealing of any system faults thanks to its transparency. I love the sound of transparent equipment provided the rest of the audio chain is up to it. Unfortunately, the EL15 highlighted some distortion in the upper midrange of the Dynaudio C2’s that was still existent but better disguised when using the KW500.

[Keith_W]

Picked up my EL30S amp today. True to form, the damned thing tried to take my finger off before I even got it out of the box. It is bloody heavy and I dropped it on my poor fingernail. After a few minutes hopping around and cursing, I managed to get it hooked up. At the moment it is mono-amped but by tomorrow it will be bi-amped with the Cary's on top. All working OK at the moment - thanks Stuart.

[Jake]

Picked up my EL30S amp today. True to form, the damned thing tried to take my finger off before I even got it out of the box. It is bloody heavy and I dropped it on my poor fingernail. After a few minutes hopping around and cursing, I managed to get it hooked up. At the moment it is mono-amped but by tomorrow it will be bi-amped with the Cary's on top. All working OK at the moment - thanks Stuart.

Sorry to hear about the finger, but looking forward to pics of the behemoth

[ENIGMA]

Great to see some insight into the amp & quality within, but sorry Stuart, i've said it before & i will say it again, it looks ugly and those heatsinks are visually out of proportion to the rest of the amp.

And what's with the 80's Voxon car stereo LED meters?

Edited August 31, 2010 by ENIGMA

[Young Skywalker]

And what's with the 80's Voxon car stereo LED meters?

Hi Del,

I think the VU meters are important for studio use, another market segment which SGR is servicing as I understand it. In any event the VU meters can be switched off in which case you just have a cool looking logo of machined translucent Corian (or similar material) embedded within the faceplate.

YS