JVC DLA- X7900 vs Sony VPL-VW360ES vs Epson EH-LS10000

[Javs]

8 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Hmm so even the handpicked parts for the 9900 series isn't a worthwhile upgrade over the 7900?

 

To be clear, if you get a good sample 9900/9500/9000 whatever, it was be AMAZING. You will know it when you see it.

 

It feels like good Leica glass lenses vs POC $100 canon kit lens crap.

 

At that time, the difference in price for additional 40+k:1 contrast, far better lenses possibly... IMO its worth it.

The contrast advantage is there on every 9 series.

 

I went from 55k:1 on my X7000 to 95k:1 at -10 on the iris on my 9500... that's HUGE. Not to mention the lens on my 9500 completely destroys the 7 series I owned,. but also ironically destroys the two 9900's I had here lol.

 

If the Sony had 18gbps boards, 99% P3 coverage, things might be a little differenct. 1500 lumens is not enough OOTB, in a month or two that will considerably drop. JVC lamps are super stable. I dropped like 1.5fl over 900 hours on one of mine.

[Javs]

4 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Thanks Javs. Especially regarding the 3D being better. I'll update my checklist... That tips it more...

 

So would you say the 9900 would be a reasonable improvement over the 7900, or just not worth the extra 2-3k as others have said?  I'd love to spend less, if it was not something I'd regret later (3m seat distance, 110" screen).

 

Anyone have a link to a JVC projector throw calculator? I've run my dimensions thru Sony's now will have to check JVC. The room is 4.8m long so about 4.2m from lens (mount on back wall) to screen

I already commented on this just now, but THIS generation, no. Get a 7900. The lens AND the contrast together would need to be up to spec to jump to the 9900, I just am not confident that's happening this gen, and I have been in touch with a lot of world wide JVC owners as you know from AVS... the 7900 is a safer bet.

 

webprojectorcalculator.com

 

My JVC lens is 3.8m from my 120" 16:9 screen, its almost at the limit of mininum throw, so you may be able to get 125" at 4.2m

Edited February 8, 2018 by Javs

[Mobe1969]

Oh gee that is a grim situation with the 9900 for that to be the case. Not a glowing endorsement. I can't believe you got two duds. I thought it was just the one.

 

So your recommendation on the 7900 then is that you aren't paying as much and not expecting as much so if you get a dud like the two you had, less of a loss? Or that they are actually no reported problems as opposed to the 9900? I can't actually say I've seen any issues reported on the 7900, here or AVSforum.

 

Maybe I'll get lucky and score a 9500...

 

I swear, if they hadn't dropped 3D from flat panels, I'd just get the largest OLED I could find.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Mobe1969

[IMDave]

1 hour ago, Javs said:

 

The 7900 is the best projector under $10,000. Very, very safe bet right now if youy must purchase now, else, wait until next year...

 

 

I believe he said to buy the 7900, not the 9900.

 

Sorry, bit of a late response there.

My X7000 is 4.2m from a 130" scope screen. 

I sit at 3.8m.

Perfect.

Edited February 8, 2018 by IMDave
missed the previous response

[Mobe1969]

31 minutes ago, IMDave said:

I believe he said to buy the 7900, not the 9900.

 

Sorry, bit of a late response there.

My X7000 is 4.2m from a 130" scope screen. 

I sit at 3.8m.

Perfect.

Yes, I know. I guess I'm wondering if that means "Get the 7900 as it will only be as bad or slightly worse than the 9900, but you paid less" or "the 7900 is better than the 9900". And technically the 9900 isn't under 10k.  

[betty boop]

gawd....

 

what do you want us to do...tell you what to buy or something ! cant you make up your own mind of something ??? this has been going on for MONTHS for goodness sake  

[ward0112]

15 minutes ago, al said:

gawd....

 

what do you want us to do...tell you what to buy or something ! cant you make up your own mind of something ??? this has been going on for MONTHS for goodness sake  

Order has just gone in - hopefully will get in next week

[Mobe1969]

15 minutes ago, al said:

gawd....

 

what do you want us to do...tell you what to buy or something ! cant you make up your own mind of something ??? this has been going on for MONTHS for goodness sake  

Hah hah. Sure. I've had months to make up my mind. I still have another month.

 

No I can't make up my mind. Obviously.  

[betty boop]

13 minutes ago, ward0112 said:

Order has just gone in - hopefully will get in next week

good on you wish well with what gone with

13 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Hah hah. Sure. I've had months to make up my mind. I still have another month.

 

No I can't make up my mind. Obviously.  

oh gawd !!  does this mean this is going to go on for ANOTHER month 

[IMDave]

What Javs ( and Al and I ) are saying is this:

Buy ....the....X7900.....it won't be a bad unit....you wouldn't know if it WAS a bad unit....the only people who would be able to tell if it was a "bad" unit are people with infinitely more experience than you, me or pretty much anybody else on this forum.

You are nit-picking beyond the extreme.  Just be happy with what you get.

[Mobe1969]

Ok thanks. Other than on houses, I've never spent this much on anything, lol. Buyers regret for a $3k TV is one thing, but for $10k, unseen, it is psychologically daunting...

 

I am pretty disappointed that the 9500 to 9900 was not an improvement. If it had been as good or even half a percent better, I'd have just got a 9900. I would not even be asking. I'd have just got one. It just oddly didn't end up that way.

[IMDave]

Look at it this way.

We are all trying to help you. My recommendation would be to discuss doing a deal with Rich on one of his 130" Evo 2.35:1 scope screens and the X7900.

It would be a match made in heaven. Save the money you would have spent on the X9900 on the best screen you can afford.

The screen can obviously have almost as much of an influence over the final image as the PJ.

Trust me. If you invest as much time in learning how to get the best image out of your projector as you do researching the actual purchase, you will end up in HT nirvana.

I have spent A LOT of time learning by reading what @:) al and @Javs here , and the like of Manni and Kris Deering have written over on AVS.

I love it. It's a hobby.

My HT room gives me a great deal of enjoyment.

But it doesn't come easy. These things are about as far from "plug and play " as you can get.

So I look forward to your questions when you do eventually take the plunge.

[Javs]

46 minutes ago, IMDave said:

Look at it this way.

We are all trying to help you. My recommendation would be to discuss doing a deal with Rich on one of his 130" Evo 2.35:1 scope screens and the X7900.

It would be a match made in heaven. Save the money you would have spent on the X9900 on the best screen you can afford.

The screen can obviously have almost as much of an influence over the final image as the PJ.

Trust me. If you invest as much time in learning how to get the best image out of your projector as you do researching the actual purchase, you will end up in HT nirvana.

I have spent A LOT of time learning by reading what @:) al and @Javs here , and the like of Manni and Kris Deering have written over on AVS.

I love it. It's a hobby.

My HT room gives me a great deal of enjoyment.

But it doesn't come easy. These things are about as far from "plug and play " as you can get.

So I look forward to your questions when you do eventually take the plunge.

Good post... screen is very important, that will outlive multiple projectors.

[Mobe1969]

Unfortunately I couldn't use a fixed screen. I was trying to figure a way to rig one to lift but gave up as too impractical. So I got a screen technics. I got the chain drive though as I really couldn't see the point on the extra for a motor, wire/s dangling down the wall, but in the same physical housing. I'll wind it down when I am going to use it, wind it up when I'm done.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Mobe1969

[Mobe1969]

Sorry to bother everyone again, but what about the x9000? I have the option of getting one of those new at a good price. I believe it is missing HLG support, but not sure if anything else.

[Javs]

22 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Sorry to bother everyone again, but what about the x9000? I have the option of getting one of those new at a good price. I believe it is missing HLG support, but not sure if anything else.

New?? You sure?

 

The HDR mode out of the box is completely unusable, you would need to immediately load in custom gamma curves, it also does not have a dedicated HDR picture mode, so you would need to set one up, and you will need an HDFury linker, or Vertex to stop the projector from kicking you into its 'useless' HDR Gamma D mode each time you stop and start an HDR disk. And it does not have low latency mode.

 

Otherwise, its a good unit. As long as the price is low, and you have FULL 3 year warranty. Its 2 generations old now.

 

IMO, the 9500 is a significantly better option if you can find one for the HDR mode alone, and Low Latency. Its much more user friendly.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Javs

[Mobe1969]

18 minutes ago, Javs said:

New?? You sure?

 

The HDR mode out of the box is completely unusable, you would need to immediately load in custom gamma curves, it also does not have a dedicated HDR picture mode, so you would need to set one up, and you will need an HDFury linker, or Vertex to stop the projector from kicking you into its 'useless' HDR Gamma D mode each time you stop and start an HDR disk. And it does not have low latency mode.

 

Otherwise, its a good unit. As long as the price is low, and you have FULL 3 year warranty. Its 2 generations old now.

 

IMO, the 9500 is a significantly better option if you can find one for the HDR mode alone, and Low Latency. Its much more user friendly.

Yes it is new. From a store. Still boxed, unopened, full 3yr warranty.

 

OK, thanks. That sounds more significant and a lot of complexity over the 9500 and 9900. I really don't want to get into that sort of intermediate hardware like the vertex. That really sounds difficult. So they didn't fix those sort of issues with firmware updates, even though that would be 100% doable? Hmm From a quick read though, that Gamma D switching would drive me batty.

 

I'll be researching more on the weekend, see if I can make sense of it at all and if I could make a go of it.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Mobe1969

[IMDave]

12 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

. I really don't want to get into that sort of intermediate hardware like the vertex. That really sounds difficult.

 

I'll be researching more on the weekend, see if I can make sense of it at all and if I could make a go of it.

 

 

Oh come on. It's not that hard. 

Have a look at my Vertex thread.

Hey I can even sell you a Linker cheap(ish) as that is superfluous to my needs now.

If you can pick up a X9000 for <$7000 I'd jump all over it. ( Unless you are a gamer , in which case the lag is a deal breaker from what I've heard. I don't game)

[Javs]

15 minutes ago, IMDave said:

If you can pick up a X9000 for <$7000 I'd jump all over it. ( Unless you are a gamer , in which case the lag is a deal breaker from what I've heard. I don't game)

I wouldn't pay over 6 for a 2 generation old unit like that. Too close to the 9900 street price.

[IMDave]

Thanks, I wasn't too sure of how RRP compares to "street".

Good to know.

[Mobe1969]

Well, was under 7, over 6.

 

OK on the Linker and Vertex. I may take you up on it. That is all new tech to me I never even looked into. I'll be researching more

[betty boop]

There are PLENTY of us running xX000 series jvc. Even likes of manni and zombie on avs. Zombie it think has said he’s keeping his till 2020 !

 

though I will say I find it difficult very difficult to believe there is a brand new twice superseded x9000 in a retailer some place !

 

id be asking why, is this a dud, customer return they don’t know what to do with. One of the first release DOAs. Or worse still from that eBay seller that says has stuff but has nothing ? Buyer beware ! When something sounds too good to be true it usually is !

[Mobe1969]

Yeah it was from a stock error, in the stock room and overlooked for a couple of years in a stocktake so still sitting there and they are trying to get rid of it. Sounds odd.

 

I have a Pana UB900 that doesn't have that metadata strip feature, so I'd need to get one of those HDFury devices. The salesman seemed to think the new firmware did let you have it auto select another profile rather than the auto gamma D though. I can't honestly believe they didn't fix some of this rubbish with a firmware update. I mean these are easily fixable things, that are actually controlled by the firmware, not an underlying hardware restriction.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Mobe1969

[TP1]

 
Also what are people thoughts on the laser based Epson EH-10000 - again it is an upshifted 4K image - but how does the picture quality compare to the X7900? Is it worth the extra outlay at the beginning to save on not having to replace bulbs down the track?

I've also been doing the rounds for a new PJ. I simply couldn't live with Sony's contrast levels. It seemed a step down from what I am used to however JVC seemed good and produced a picture I can work with and produce better cinematic images. JVC has plenty of resolution - you won't want for more- but Sony is a little better on 4K material - but that doesn't IMO make up for what's missing in contrast.

Pricing is not what it seems. Sony discount less than JVC ( in my experience) and you might find JVC a bargain by comparison .

Epson EH-10000 - these are the old model and the new model EH-10500 are better still. In some overseas reviews they seem to rate better than both JVC and Sony at that price point. Being laser, you will never need to worry about globe changes, fading light , recalibration etc, and they have better colours and more light output than the specs suggest. Contrast is better than Sony and although not quite as good as JVC, the laser light engine gives it other advantages. I've seen the EH-10000 for sale in the $6k's and EH-10500 RRp of $8.9k, but I'm sure there is wiggle room.

I ended up with JVC X9900 - the problems mentioned elsewhere are noted and I am confident of a resolution in the event of a problem. However, there are many reports coming through now of very satisfied customers who appreciate what the PJ can do. I didn't didn't go for the Epson mainly because I couldn't see one in action .

[TP1]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:03 PM, DoggieHowser said:

For pretty much everything else, the Sony looks way sharper than the JVC and I know part of it is because of the Reality Creation but man does it look good. And bright too. Despite the same lumens rating, the 760ES is just much brighter. Really helps with HDR material. And motion is something that Sony has perfected. 

For the Op's sake we should point out that your Sony 760ES is a $24k state of the art laser projector which is on a whole other level to the PJ's he is looking to buy.   Contrast for Sony 760ES is streets ahead of the Sony VPL-VW360ES .