Audio myths and misconceptions

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

2 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

A DBT test will give you a definite idea in audio of what is better.

A DBT is easy for someone to do at home properly.

 

These are good myths and seem to be the current post of Audio forums. eg. If you like something and post about it, you can bet there will be many posts following that if you have not done a DBT, then it is in your head. etc, etc 

 

It is getting so repetitive when you find so many posts where people are forever having to fight online to explain themselves after they have posted their subjective thoughts.

It seems it can totally take away the discussion of the items and can head down the toilet. 

 

I've constructed a DOS file to do blind testing of audio file types. It's good fun, and easy, but even then, a sample of one person is totally irrelevant from the point of view of this kind of test reaching a general conclusion. A blind test will still tell you more about your real preference than a sighted one, but they do tend to be more disappointing.

[Nigel]

DBTs - I thought we were banned from mentioning them, due to arguments that follow.  Personally, I think a DBT is like telling someone to put their money where their mouth is. People swear they can hear a difference in say, as cryo'd valve but will refuse to be subjected to proving it. The exception being the Bybee Quantum Purifier which opens up a hifi system and gives the sound a vast and clear soundstage. I don't know how it does it for $300 but I have some spares here, if anyone would like to buy one.

[rocky500]

The more I read on DBT's in audio, the less faith I have in them to be done well with any meaningful outcome for the general public.

It just seems to be the current catch cry, flavour of the month post when someone posts their simple subjective views.

Edited November 10, 2017 by rocky500

[audio_file]

I once tried a DBT and then the results still weren't good enough and people simply said it wasn't a true DBT. So not sure how easy it really is.

[proftournesol]

<moderator comment>Yes, let's not get into a discussion about DBTs <moderator comment>

[MLXXX]

2 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

I've constructed a DOS file to do blind testing of audio file types. It's good fun, and easy, but even then, a sample of one person is totally irrelevant from the point of view of this kind of test reaching a general conclusion. A blind test will still tell you more about your real preference than a sighted one, but they do tend to be more disappointing.

There are so many realms where blind testing can be disappointing. One of them is wine tasting. For example, it can very disappointing to find that one has misidentified the variety of wine! Or that the moderately priced wine you speak ill of tastes better to you in a blind test, than an expensive wine you speak well of. It is wise to avoid blind testing with wine unless you are prepared to be at least a little embarrassed!

 

Human taste buds vary in their perceived response depending on one's general state of health, one's mood, and what one has recently tasted. 

 

Similarly in the realm of audio, one's general state of health, ones mood, and what one has recently been listening to, affect one's perceptions. How many times have you listened to a CD, been enthralled, but then on another occasion listened to the same CD, at exactly the same volume, and been left cold? Why does a cello sometimes sound rich and warm, and other times ordinary, despite use of exactly the same track, with the same hi-fi setup, at exactly the same volume, and when sitting in the same listening chair?   

 

Are these very different experiences when we listen to the same music on different occasions to do with burn in, or power supply voltage variations, or something else external to ourselves?  Or is it just us as human beings reacting differently?

 

Edit: woops, just saw the moderator's comment about not getting into a DBT discussion. So will avoid that topic from now on.

Edited November 10, 2017 by MLXXX

[Satanica]

3 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

The more I read on DBT's, the less faith I have in them to be done well with any meaningful outcome for the general public.

One can put infinitely more faith in something and claim it to be a lot more meaningful than any sighted, non-level matched <cough> "test".

 

6 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

It just seems to be the current catch cry, flavour of the month post when someone posts their subjective views.

Only the last month, have you been living under a rock for the last 10-20 years?

[audio_file]

7 minutes ago, MLXXX said:

How many times have you listened to a CD, been enthralled, but then on another occasion listened to the same CD, at exactly the same volume, and been left cold? Why does a cello sometimes sound rich and warm, and other times ordinary, despite use of exactly the same track, with the same hi-fi setup, at exactly the same volume, and when sitting in the same listening chair?   

My system sounds better in the evening than during the day, but that might just be because there is less background noise. The only other time it sounds different is when my ears are tired because of long exposure to the traffic or other loud sounds prior to listening to my system.

 

Other than that it always sounds the same to me, with exactly the same tonal balance, regardless of volume. The only exception here is at the extremes, when it's either too soft for me to hear half of it, or when it's so loud that my ears get sore or distortion becomes obvious.

 

Note: My system does have a lack of bass for around 5-10 minutes after cold switch on for some reason, maybe it just needs to warm up.

Edited November 10, 2017 by audio_file
Added note

[rocky500]

5 minutes ago, Satanica said:

One can put infinitely more faith in something and claim it to be a lot more meaningful than any sighted, non-level matched <cough> "test".

 

Only the last month, have you been living under a rock for the last 10-20 years?

Hehe, just wanted to use that phrase.

I have read lots and the it seems there are so many variables and if not done with very strict setup, then it is pretty well going to be of not much help.

I was reading another forum, where they were discussing it and the list of things they mention to do it right, made my head spin. Went on for many many many pages.

Edited November 10, 2017 by rocky500

[Addicted to music]

I definately won't purchase cables that's directional, I want those electrons on a two way street.....

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, rocky500 said:

Hehe, just wanted to use that phrase.

I have read lots and the it seems there are so many variables and if not done with very strict setup, then it is pretty well worthless.

I was reading another forum, where they were discussing it and the list of things they mention to do it right, made my head spin. Went on for many many many pages.

Oh well, that's it then. It's too difficult, so let's not bother.

 

What if the Philips/Sony engineers had said that about CD?

If the NASA engineers had said that to President Kennedy (about the Moon landing)? 

 

Geez. 

[Satanica]

1 minute ago, rocky500 said:

Hehe, just wanted to use that phrase.

I have read lots and the it seems there are so many variables and if not done with very strict setup, then it is pretty well going to be of not much help.

I was reading another forum, where they were discussing it and the list of things they mention to do it right, made my head spin. Went on for many many many pages.

Even if not done 100% right, still better.

[joz]

I'm not sure whether I should buy a cable cooker for my cryo'ed cables?

Will they reverse any gains I may have gotten?

[batou]

1 hour ago, MLXXX said:

What a very long, and mostly irrelevant, preamble before you reach the above paragraph!

 

There is a grain of truth in that last paragraph in that yes it could make a difference for a shielded cable that involved the shield being connected to one of the internal conductors at only one end of the cable as to how vulnerable the system would be to external interference depending on which way around such a cable were connected. And it can make a difference how a cable is oriented if there is very strong interference nearby. But there would be no great mystery in such results, and they would have nothing to due with so-called directionality of wire.  And even if wire itself had "directionality", whatever that might mean, the signal waveform is AC [desired signal plus any interfering signals] not DC. Electrons carrying the signal waveform flow one way, and then reverse direction!

 

Because the explanation in this case has been written in good quality English, with what appears to be a good logical flow, it may seem more plausible than English written in an uneducated or self-contradictory style, or one which has the form of a computerised translation from a foreign language. Readers without a technical background cannot assess the truth of the technical argument, but they can assess the quality of the English expression, and can observe whether there appears to be a logical flow to the argument.

. that is textbook english. you will find most of the textbook in uni speak like that, especially if you study science or engineering. it takes knowledge to understands the sentences.

Edited November 10, 2017 by valkyre

[Assisi]

6 minutes ago, audio_file said:

My system sounds better in the evening than during the day, but that might just be because there is less background noise. The only other time it sounds different is when my ears are tired because of long exposure to the traffic or other loud sounds prior to listening to my system.

 

 

@audio_file

It may depend on  what time of the evening you are talking about.  For me it always gets better from 9.30/10pm on wards.  I think that it is to do with less pollution  created in the power from various day time sources.

John

[batou]

4 hours ago, Simonon said:

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The RIQ-5010 has many effects besides using as an insulator
If you place the RIQ-5010 on the top plate of your equipment or near the input/output terminals, you can get the effects of improving sound. There are some theories why the quartz improves sound. Some say that the pure quartz absorbs an electromagnetic wave, some another say that the pure quartz controlls vibration, or that the pure quartz radiate far infrared light. Anyway pure quartz have effects of improving sound that are never gained from the other materials.

Pure quartz's effects of improving sound quality is on a different level!
Insulators that are made of the metal or the quartz glass generate hard and sharp sound. The RIQ-5010 never generates such sounds and improves sound quality extremely mellifluously, smoothly, lively and warmly. Additionally, the sound is well-modulated, and the rise time and decay time are both quickly, these two opposite values can be compatible.

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tried and tested. works on my system. gain is subtle but noticable. can hear 'blacker background'.

[sir sanders zingmore]

42 minutes ago, Nigel said:

The exception being the Bybee Quantum Purifier which opens up a hifi system and gives the sound a vast and clear soundstage

I was part of the great bybee experiment a few years ago. The overwhelming conclusion was that their impact was somewhere between minuscule and nonexistent 

[batou]

35 minutes ago, Assisi said:

@audio_file

It may depend on  what time of the evening you are talking about.  For me it always gets better from 9.30/10pm on wards.  I think that it is to do with less pollution  created in the power from various day time sources.

John

less pollution from the eletricity or from the missus/children?

for me, the 'background noise' from the missus and children is 10x worse than the electricity grid. thats why i listen at 10 pm at night.

Edited November 10, 2017 by valkyre

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

I don't want to upset the moderators, but I will say this about DBTs, and then shut up.

 

Any company that can apparently do quantum processes on copper atoms, accurately and predictably use materials to manipulate magnetic interference into far infrared spectrum, use electron microscopes to see the "chevron pattern" caused by drawing OFC copper, or manipulate matter on nano scales, should be able to find someone to demonstrably measure the resulting changes in soundwaves or conduct a DBT of reasonable sample size and give statistically valid results.

 

Those companies should back up their claims, especially when the product cost is in five figures, and especially when they include scientific miracles or would disprove accepted theory by so doing. It's their duty to the human race!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Eggcup The Daft
Improved political correctness. Sorry to anyone that offends.

[t_mike]

36 minutes ago, Assisi said:

@audio_file

It may depend on  what time of the evening you are talking about.  For me it always gets better from 9.30/10pm on wards.  I think that it is to do with less pollution  created in the power from various day time sources.

John

As the sun sets, humidity rises dramatically. One should never underestimate the effect this has on the movement of sound waves through the air. You can also listen for this to be apparent in the summer months, especially in coastal regions. Better still, mic, record and analyse.

[audio_file]

2 minutes ago, t_mike said:

As the sun sets, humidity rises dramatically. One should never underestimate the effect this has on the movement of sound waves through the air. You can also listen for this to be apparent in the summer months, especially in coastal regions. Better still, mic, record and analyse.

Maybe I should move to a more humid area.

[t_mike]

I didn't say it was better, just it has an effect. I think the preferences of the listener come greatly into play here, which could in effect create another misconception, which is better. 

[Guest Simonon]

19 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

I don't want to upset the moderators, but I will say this about DBTs, and then shut up.

 

Any company that can apparently do quantum processes on copper atoms, accurately and predictably use materials to manipulate magnetic interference into far infrared spectrum, use electron microscopes to see the "chevron pattern" caused by drawing OFC copper, or manipulate matter on nano scales, should be able to find someone to demonstrably measure the resulting changes in soundwaves or conduct a DBT of reasonable sample size and give statistically valid results.

 

Those companies should back up their claims, especially when the product cost is in five figures, and especially when they include scientific miracles or would disprove accepted theory by so doing. It's their duty to the human race!

 

 

 

 

On the subject of nano technology apparently we can do the following "During transit through the Quantum Purifier, quantum noise energy is stripped off the electrons, streamlining their flow through ensuing conductors. Unwanted quantum noise energy dissipates as heat within the Quantum Purifier rather than emerging as a layer of contamination residue over the audio/video information"

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/bybee/bybee.html

My work colleague who is a broadcast engineer is currently on the floor in hysterics and in 40 years has never heard of such a thing. To be honest since starting this thread I did not realise how much nonsense is out there and it doesn't take much looking on the Net to find it.

Anyways it's work knock of time, better go warm up the spaceship.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, Simonon said:

On the subject of nano technology apparently we can do the following "During transit through the Quantum Purifier, quantum noise energy is stripped off the electrons, streamlining their flow through ensuing conductors. Unwanted quantum noise energy dissipates as heat within the Quantum Purifier rather than emerging as a layer of contamination residue over the audio/video information"

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/bybee/bybee.html

My work colleague who is a broadcast engineer is currently on the floor in hysterics and in 40 years has never heard of such a thing. To be honest since starting this thread I did not realise how much nonsense is out there and it doesn't take much looking on the Net to find it.

Anyways it's work knock of time, better go warm up the spaceship.

It's worse when people like 6Moons fail to challenge manufacturers on this kind of stuff. 6Moons is no better than the purveyors of that kind of rubbish. It's why we all should resist reading the site and others like it. 

[t_mike]

Oh c'mon Trev, what's wrong with a little humour every now and then? All humour is usually at someone's expense.