Long speaker cables 10 meter

[Primare Knob]

I am looking into cables for my 4 surround speakers.

 

I made some short runs using the RG213/U cable but the inflexibility of the cable is going to be a bit of a problem with the walls (plasterboard on bricks) for my wall mounted speakers.

 

I started looking at the Goertz M1 cable, which seems to be not the ideal choice with it's 13AWG for my 5 ohm nominal speakers and estimated128W amplifier peak power output @105dB.

 

The other problem with the Goertz M1 and M2 is that they aren't cheap either and I'll have to get it shipped over from the US which might not work with my time frame.

 

Does anyone know of a local available product that can do the trick?

 

I am also considering a combination of the RG213/U with a more flexible cable a the end that runs behind the plasterboard.

 

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[MrRogers]

Try Aurealis Audio.  https://www.aurealisaudio.com.au

 

i upgraded from a Goertz M2 to a basic Aureolas speaker cable years ago and never looked back.

 

I've upgraded within the Aurealis range a few times since then and  always very happy.

[betty boop]

11 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

for my 4 surround speakers.

 

I made some short runs using the RG213/U cable but the inflexibility of the cable is going to be a bit of a problem with the walls (plasterboard on bricks) for my wall mounted speakers.

 

plenty of local available product and shouldnt have to break the bank. goertz seems a bit of overkill for surround speakers, 

'even if feeding 4ohm over 10m some 14 awg local made linear crystal should do it, 

http://www.tycab.com.au/speaker-cable-audio-tv-range/linear-crystal.html

[Primare Knob]

The Series Inductance of 7uH per meter seems really high compared to other products.

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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

8 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

The Series Inductance of 7uH per meter seems really high compared to other products.

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Agreed. It is an appallingly high figure. I would:

 

* Question the manufacturer to see if it is a mis-print. 0.7uH/M seems more like the figure I would expect from that configuration. For long runs, even 0.7uH/M is way too high though.

* Use almost any other cable, if the figure is correct.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Another poster (haven't seen him in awhile) was promoting the benefits of Eurocable. The Eurocable 02N25C (DO NOT ignore the 'C' at the end) should do what you require, but is a more easily manageable package. 

 

http://www.trc.com.au/New Eurocable_cat.pdf

 

Since it is thinner and uses PVC insulation, it will be far more flexible than RG213/U. I believe it is priced competitively. I have not tried it, but it's construction suggests it will possess reasonable resistance and low inductance. 

 

[Primare Knob]

That is how my Siltech cables are constructed.

 

Are there any issues when I need to run two cables in parallel in a tight space/conduit.?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

That is how my Siltech cables are constructed.

 

Are there any issues when I need to run two cables in parallel in a tight space/conduit.?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you direct me to specs on the cables please?

[Primare Knob]

Which one?

The Siltech is unknown and doesn't get used for this application.

The 02N25C specs are in the PDF you linked me, but no data on induction.
8ohm/km, 13AWG, operating temp -20C to 70C, outer skin 1mm or more.

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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

Which one?

 

I don't know. The ones you are using now, I guess. 

 

Quote

 

The Siltech is unknown and doesn't get used for this application.

 

 

OK.

 

Quote

The 02N25C specs are in the PDF you linked me, but no data on induction.
8ohm/km, 13AWG, operating temp -20C to 70C, outer skin 1mm or more.

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I realise that the full specs are not there. Another SNA member was promoting Eurocable and I recall that the coax speaker cable was almost as good as RG213/U for both inductance and resistance. 

 

[EDIT] It took awhile, but I finally remembered who suggested and stocked Eurocable. It is @johnmath 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Primare Knob]

I also came across the Mogami W3082 14AWG.
Resistance seems to be 0.013/m, inductance 0.0759uH/m and capacitance 561pF/m.

https://www.passlabs.com/press/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

I can't really figure out when capacitance comes into play, which is rather high for this cable.

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[betty boop]

On 31/08/2017 at 11:12 PM, Primare Knob said:

The Series Inductance of 7uH per meter seems really high compared to other products.

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Only been using it some 25+ years my self and including with 4ohm speakers with 200w odd amps feeding upto 15m. Also happpily used in family and friends setups that helped get happening. And good ness knows how many installers have over the decades with no issue for this exact application.

 

but understand if doesn't meet your spec, and suggest checking to verify at very least !

 

because this good honest very well made local stuff that's been pretty tried and tested for the exact application. I wouldn't suggest it myself otherwise.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

I also came across the Mogami W3082 14AWG.
Resistance seems to be 0.013/m, inductance 0.0759uH/m and capacitance 561pF/m.

https://www.passlabs.com/press/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

I can't really figure out when capacitance comes into play, which is rather high for this cable.

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Should be an excellent speaker cable, like most high power coax cables. 

 

Now, it is really a minor factor, given your requirements for flexibility, but the Mogami (and the Eurocable) use PVC insulation. PVC is not as good as PE. PE is the insulation material used in RG213/U and is why the stuff is so damned stiff. However, as I stated, given your requirements, I would certainly suggest that the Mogami will be a perfect choice for your needs.

 

 Capacitance, when using a properly designed amplifier, is inconsequential. If you choose to use a badly designed amplifier, then you may be in trouble. Naim amplifiers should never be used with low inductance, high capacitance cables. 

[sloper]

Goodaye all

 

Just finished running RG213 speaker cable's to the Marantz and Sansui system.

Some cable had to go under the house and pop up by the speaker.

 

Sansui was finished first and fired up, l could notice more detail, the wife says it clearer.

2m cable and 3.5m cable

 

The Marantz system came alive, never been so clear or detailed.

Had considered capping it, but not now.

More woodwork too tighten.

2m cable and 4.5m cable.

 

l had been useing 12 AWG fig8 as connects for years, not any more.

Just need to find a more flexable cable for use on sattlite speakers and car speakers.

 

The garage Sansui system will be a challenge.

It will require a 20m, 14m, 7m and 2m run.

 

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Get off My lawn]

johnmath made up  a pair of  9m runs of Eurocable 04N40  for my system, and I've been very happy with it.

 

It's flexible and easy to work with.

 

Performance wise, it seems to do the job in a fairly decent system.

 

The measurements for the set he did for me

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by pine weasel

[Primare Knob]

On 9/2/2017 at 8:24 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Should be an excellent speaker cable, like most high power coax cables. 

 

Now, it is really a minor factor, given your requirements for flexibility, but the Mogami (and the Eurocable) use PVC insulation. PVC is not as good as PE. PE is the insulation material used in RG213/U and is why the stuff is so damned stiff. However, as I stated, given your requirements, I would certainly suggest that the Mogami will be a perfect choice for your needs.

 

 Capacitance, when using a properly designed amplifier, is inconsequential. If you choose to use a badly designed amplifier, then you may be in trouble. Naim amplifiers should never be used with low inductance, high capacitance cables. 

What is the difference electrically between the two insulator materials?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

What is the difference electrically between the two insulator materials?

 

PVC is a poor(er) quality dielectric material, compared to PE. Honestly, I don't think the difference would be (easily) audible, as the main characteristics (Inductance and resistance) are very similar to RG213/U. For RF work, the difference would be far more noticeable. Now, this is a contentious issue, but, IMO, very stiff speaker cable is better than floppy speaker cable (ie: anything using PVC insulation). Parallel conductors can move, under the influence of high currents. A moving pair of conductors is a pair of conductors that will present changing characteristics. Stiff insulation does not allow the conductors to move (as much), under high current conditions. 

 

All that aside, I would suggest you consider the PVC insulated stuff as it will be much easier to thread through walls and it will still provide vastly better performance than any 'figure 8' style cable. I should also add that the vast majority of figure 8 style cables use PVC insulation. 

[Addicted to music]

I bet that @Zaphod Beeblebrox has shares in RG213/U.

 

Just kidding Trevor, I just couldn't help myself 

[Primare Knob]

I bought the Mogami W3082 since it took me just one phone call to source it and shipped. Looked into the EuroCable but none could provide me.

Run the 7mm diameter cable through 20mm diameter conduit, and that already was a pain in but. I am so glad it wasn't the RG213.

Had some leftovers and made myself a 3m pair to compare with the RG213 and they perform very similar in this length. I do prefer the Mogami, but this has more to do with preferences than with which one is better.

I still need to need to source and run a HDMI cable to run through a conduit. Any recommendations for that?

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[betty boop]

so bother to follow up the local manufactured cable ?

 

did they get a chance to be in running ?

 

 

[paulrp]

Look at the Van Damme 4mm
Total or Reference series, clear jacket shot gun directional.
Recommended by Aurealis.
Get it shipped from England at about
$8 - $15 per m with $40 postage.
Shouldn't take that long to get them.
They would cost $18 here for what you pay $8 there