Is There A Better Solution Than Beyonwiz?

[diesel]

As you may know I have a beyonwiz DP-P1 which in most respects I am very happy with. I think in over the 12 months I have owned mine, it has missed a couple of timers (1x unknown reason, 2x DLS issue), and in all has been very reliable stable performer.

Now where it doesn't quite meet expectations for me, has been around the (lack of) polish of the UI, limited picture/slideshow viewing, and music playlists. I can't really fault the PVR side of things (this is rock solid) or video playback as advertised, but I don't push the limits as hard as others - I don't watch a lot of d/l content. But there have been a couple of requests that for me at least, would make it a better product for my needs - these are ISO support (coming in the next FW which is now apparently ready for release, but just waiting on some WizTV server work to be completed), AVCHD playback and PiP.

AVCHD playback is fine as long as it's not 1080p content. I know the wiz is advertised as 1080i compatible but for a while there I could watch AVCHD files from my HD Camcorder through the wiz using .192 FW. Since moving to .247 FW, this no longer works, but I haven't reverted as there are too many other +ives in .247 for me to go back eg resume play.

PiP it seems is beyond the memory capabilities of the wiz (why I ask do they have a PiP button on their remote, maybe for PiP enabled TVs ) and in fairness, this requirement of mine for PiP is to overcome a shortfall in my Pana plasma which has PiP for all inputs except HDMI .

I am sure if beyonwiz were to release a DP-P3 using a new Sigma Designs chip capable of running 1080p content and having more and better memory management, I would seriously consider buying it...cashflow being the only limitation.

Now I know there are some unhappy owners of the wiz out there. From what I have seen at least, these seem to be more DP-S1 users than P1/P2 users, with most complaints around the almost useless DVD player on the S1, and a long delivery time on features which were advertised on the original boxes when the unit was first released, particularly around the media player. Beyonwiz have worked hard and provided all(?) missing advertised features, as well as many additional features and requested features/improvements. I have been more patient and forgiving with these transgressions, as I still cannot find anything that can do all the things I want better than a wiz. It's a no win situation as far as I can see, with either one resorting to multiple devices that do their thing very well, or fewer devices which do more things but not quite as well as dedicated devices.

So I ask, it there anything out there at the moment that can play videos of many different formats, record at least twin HD FTA, have a good picture slideshow and music playlist capabilities as well as able to be networked, that can give the wiz a run for it's money, or is the wiz the closest thing on the market still?

[charlesc]

.. with either one resorting to multiple devices that do their thing very well, or fewer devices which do more things but not quite as well as dedicated devices.

That always seems to be the problem, doesn't it?

Over the years I've had a few products/software solutions that have been very good at doing their particular thing. Then they branched out into doing more and more stuff, and lost focus on their key area. Pretty soon they couldn't keep up with user requests for extra functionality, compounded by the fact that the products were being made to do more things in more areas.

Many products that try to do too much seem to end up with a general compromise across the various functions. As end users I suppose we want a single product to do all things, but in reality that seems very difficult to achieve.

As a simple example, specialised music player software for the PC (like J. River Media Centre) has functionality built up over many years. Standalone products would find it hard to duplicate that. And yet the J. River product years ago itself started to go down the path of providing video playback, picture slideshows etc. It makes commercial sense I'm sure if the comapany can handle it.

Personally I've always tended to go for individual solutions, best-of-breed type in their particular areas. Only really because I've yet to find one product that does everything, without being too much of a compromise in too many areas.

So my PVR functionality is provided by a dedicated PC with WebScheduler and IceTV. Playback is across the network. Music is handled separately, controlled through a wireless PDA type device.

[diesel]

The way computers and in particular the internet has become interwoven into the social fabric of our daily lives has seen the convergence of many individual devices started into morph into multi-function devices - look at the iPhone as an example.

And with big TVs in reach of most people's budgets, more people prefer to stay a home and watch blockbusters on their DVDs, but with the advent of interent downloads, people can now access a multitude of content via a PC instead of the traditional "hardcopy" methods (CD, DVD) and they an get it almost as soon as it's released.

Computers are everywhere these days, and they are able to do so many more functions, that in answer to my OP, a HTPC is probably still the only device that comes close, but for me at least, i prefer appliance type solutions.

I'm not looking for an all-in-one HT solution, as I realise that there is just too many new technologies, formats, standards and versions that it's just too big of an ask to have something do it all, so i too am happy with some devices to do dedictated tasks while others will provide some multi tasking.

One day....maybe one day...

[pgdownload]

I've always felt that the BWs media centre features are ambitious. For me A PVR needs first and foremost handle the TV side of things (which by reports the BW does fine). My own approach next year is likely to be retain a PVR for TV recording and add in something like the Popcorn Hour to handle all my internet downloads - these have no issues with file formats etc. however I suspect their interface might also be fairly basic.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Kas]

For quite a while I waited for the perfect all-in-one appliance. Mainly to navigate and control the increasing number of media sources as simply as possible. The Beyonwiz was released and it was pretty close, but cost more than I was willing to pay. (I mistakenly thought an all in one would be cheaper than several specialised boxes). But luckily I discovered what I needed wasn't really an all in one, but a Harmony Remote that controls everything as if it's one box. For less than $80 on sale these days, it combines the better functionality and flexibility of dedicated boxes with the ease of use of an all in one. It's a solution that works for me.

[diesel]

But luckily I discovered what I needed wasn't really an all in one, but a Harmony Remote that controls everything as if it's one box. For less than $80 on sale these days, it combines the better functionality and flexibility of dedicated boxes with the ease of use of an all in one. It's a solution that works for me.

Totally agree that a good universal remote can pull together all your many devices into one seamlessly integrated experience. i have a Harmony 525 and reckon it's the best single investment i ever made with my HT gear, but there's still all the different device menu's that one needs to navigate and the different commands that each uses. I acknowledge the Harmony helps to overcome some of this, but having one menu (and therefore on device) would increase WAF and make life easier for the family.

[ozdoc]

My own approach next year is likely to be retain a PVR for TV recording and add in something like the Popcorn Hour to handle all my internet downloads - these have no issues with file formats etc.

There might not be that many internet downloads to view..

Film companies sue iiNet

[Vortical]

diesel

I'm not sure if you remember but I always wanted the bw to be able to play my Sony SR11 HD Handycam recordings and it just wasn't up to the task.

Anyway as you may be aware I ended up getting a Dvico Tvix 6500A.

It really did a great job with playing my AVCHD files directly from my computer and it will output up to 1080p.

If you want put a short recording or 2 up on rapidshare and I'll test it out on my box if you like.

[diesel]

I'm not sure if you remember but I always wanted the bw to be able to play my Sony SR11 HD Handycam recordings and it just wasn't up to the task.

Anyway as you may be aware I ended up getting a Dvico Tvix 6500A.

It really did a great job with playing my AVCHD files directly from my computer and it will output up to 1080p.

If you want put a short recording or 2 up on rapidshare and I'll test it out on my box if you like.

I do recall your posts about AVCHD files from the Sony.

Thanks for the kind offer Vortical. I am using the BW's inability to argue a case with the Mrs to upgrade my Pio DVD player to the new Panasonic BD35 Bluray player. It plays AVCHD via it's SDHC card reader. It would be anice little present from Santa

[pjc]

It plays AVCHD via it's SDHC card reader. It would be anice little present from Santa

Have you tried the .MTS files directly from the SD9?. Even on FW 197 the BW wouldn't recognize the .MTS file extension even though it played fine when you changed it to .m2ts.

[pjc]

up to 1080p.

If you want put a short recording or 2 up on rapidshare and I'll test it out on my box if you like.

Hi Vortical

Some samples of the SD9 native format here if you would like to report back. Thanks

http://www.4shared.com/file/68166870/845f7...1920x1080p.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/68167383/2e27b...1920x1080i.html

[diesel]

Have you tried the .MTS files directly from the SD9?. Even on FW 197 the BW wouldn't recognize the .MTS file extension even though it played fine when you changed it to .m2ts.

Yes I tried all the suggestions from the BW forum including renaming files. On .192 FW I could get short videos playing OK. I didn't test more than short clips - couple mins length max

[pjc]

Yes I tried all the suggestions from the BW forum including renaming files. On .192 FW I could get short videos playing OK. I didn't test more than short clips - couple mins length max

Sorry Diesel I meant have you tried the .MTS files on the Panasonic BD35? Looking to get a dedicated BR player myself.

[Vortical]

Have you tried the .MTS files directly from the SD9?. Even on FW 197 the BW wouldn't recognize the .MTS file extension even though it played fine when you changed it to .m2ts.

My Sony Sr11 records in 1080i in m2ts format and the Beyonwiz cannot play them back properly period.

I tried many things and nothing helped. They play back fine for a few seconds on the Beyonwiz then sound drops out and the video stutters.

The Dvico Tvix 6500A handles them flawlessly and I don't have to burn any discs.

Mick I've downloaded your fils and I'll test them as soon as I can and get back to you here with the results.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the 1080p file with the dvix set to output to 1080i on my 1080i tv.

[diesel]

Sorry Diesel I meant have you tried the .MTS files on the Panasonic BD35? Looking to get a dedicated BR player myself.

No I haven't tried the SDHC card reader on the BD35, but I have tried the SDHC card reader on my brother's Panasonic PZ850 plasma screen and they work flawlessly. Unfortunately my pana plasma (PX600) only has a SD card reader, not the SDHC, so no luck there

[smeg888]

So I ask, it there anything out there at the moment that can play videos of many different formats, record at least twin HD FTA, have a good picture slideshow and music playlist capabilities as well as able to be networked, that can give the wiz a run for it's money, or is the wiz the closest thing on the market still?

Hi Diesel

I've had an BW S1 since they first came out, and like you have found it to be almost faultless as a PVR, particularly compared to the Toshi J35 I had before it.

I've also got a pretty good HTPC and Foxtel IQ2. I've got the HTPC networked to 2 other PCs and 5TB of storage. I've got a Tiny Twin USB tuner on the HTPC with SCheduler Pro, once I got that sorted it's pretty faultless as a PVR as well, with the added advantage of having the files on the PC for easy editting.

As I've said in other posts both here and on the BW forum, nothing beats a really good HTPC setup for an all round media player, great with ITunes, tremendous for viewing photos with different types of slideshow software, and I haven't come across any videos formats I couldn't play (after loading 5 million codecs). I can PIP Foxtel, 2 live FTA channels and watch a recorded show - not that I can figure out why you would want to). The other real plus is I can sit on my loungue with BlueTooth Mouse and keyboard and read all my favourite forums on the net.

The downside of the PC is to get it going really well it takes time, patience, quite a bit of knowledge and quite a few dollars.

So from an all round media palyer point of view the BW just doesn't compare to the HTPC, and nor would any reasonable person expect it to. The PC's got 3 gig of memory, a 512M video card, a quad core processor, 1TB HDD, $100s of dollars of software and I'd hate to think of how many hours invested in getting it all going right.

I know lot's of people keep on complaining about the BW doesn't do this or that, I think a little bit of reality is needed, it's a great value PVR and video media player, but without the grunt and software it's never going to deliver the flexibility of a well configured HTPC.

One final note, as good as my PC is, I just can't quite the picture from it to be as good as I get from the BW, even though I run them both through HDMI. I watch the majority of the shows I record on the PC thru the BW - for the pciture quality and also when I think about it, the 15 sec jumps on the BW with the remote are easier than using the mouse on the PC.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

regards

[Vortical]

Hi Vortical

Some samples of the SD9 native format here if you would like to report back. Thanks

http://www.4shared.com/file/68166870/845f7...1920x1080p.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/68167383/2e27b...1920x1080i.html

They both worked perfectly on my 6500A

The 1080i shot looked very nice on my 1080i Sony HR36 CRT television

The 1080p played but didn't look as clear as the 1080i so perhaps the Dvico internally scaling down to 1080i ruins the quality a little.

Perhaps someone with a 6500A set to output to 1080p and has a 1080p display can test these as well

In any case they both played back perfectly.

[pjc]

They both worked perfectly on my 6500A

The 1080i shot looked very nice on my 1080i Sony HR36 CRT television

The 1080p played but didn't look as clear as the 1080i so perhaps the Dvico internally scaling down to 1080i ruins the quality a little.

Perhaps someone with a 6500A set to output to 1080p and has a 1080p display can test these as well

In any case they both played back perfectly.

Thanks Vortical,

I am stuck with the Wiz presently but good to know the 6500A can play them. The way Panasonic apply the AVCHD standard is not typical and has caused some major headaches with commercial 3rd parting NLE video editing programmes. Hope these posts help some others before buying.

[ZAK248313]

I'm keen to know the answer to this too. Cant wait to get rid of mine- its a joke. Might just have to get the new Popcorn Hour and go back to my Topfieild for the ICE TV PVR. A bit to think about.

Also, seems you cant even ask about new firmware updates over at the BW forum these days without threads getting locked either.

[tonymy01]

Also, seems you cant even ask about new firmware updates over at the BW forum these days without threads getting locked either.

I know I am probably feeding the troll here.... however: The original author of that thread asked for it to be closed off, we protested that this is wrong, and it got re-opened again. The previous thread did get closed however, because trolls etc started to fire insults at all and sundry.

That is all I have to say, there is a great firmware coming, beta testers have been using it for a while, it fixed a lot of the media playback issues that 261 introduced, but I am sure it still won't please all because it doesn't pump out golden turds.

[ZAK248313]

Trolls like me? That's a bit harsh Tony. I havent been on that forum for the best part of a year.

There's no need for personal attacks.

Anyone would think you're part of the company the way you overreact to any criticism aimed at the BW.

[diesel]

You're unhappy with your DP-S1. Fair enough. I'd imagine I would be too with the integrated DVD player component. As I said in my OP, the PVR side of the BW has been almost flawless IME. Video playback of other file formats across my network has improved through every FW, and is now at a point that I am satisfied with it's capabilities.

And what do I want to replace it with- maybe something that does everything the BW claims to do- but properly.

As it seems, 18 months on since the release of the beyonwiz, and there's still really no single device other than the trusty old HTPC. If you bought the beyonwiz purely as a PVR and video playback device you would not be disappointed. It does what it says it can do. Everything else it says it can do, it does, but as you allude to, is hamstrung in some way;

- file transfers are slow (I do mine overnight)

- picture slideshows are slow, file size is limited and don't allow music in the background

- music playback is fine, but only has a very rudimentary playlist option and no picture show in the background

It seems everyone agrees that multiple devices is still required.

As for upcoming FW threads being locked on the BW forum, you really like to stir the pot , don't you ZAK. , you have only told half the story...this seems to be your M.O. Make comments (true or false) and don't provide enough information that it doesn't add anything of value to the thread other than a whole bunch of finger pointing.

The reason the threads on the BW forum were locked is as per Gully's post below. The 2nd thread was unlocked within a few hours of a few people asking why it was locked.

Well as already noted the first one did get out of hand.

As for the second one the OP asked for it to be locked so I did. Aside from that, I saw no reason to do so.

[ZAK248313]

Maybe the HTPC is the way to go- I know a couple of guys running a Mac Mini with PLEX at the moment, seems to be promising.

And as to my thread locking comment- there was a couple locked.

I dont really care to tell you the truth- but just adds to the perception that the forum is too heavily moderated. Instead of stopping an entire (to the most part- negative) discussion about the f/w, why not just delete the few offending posts in question? Easy excuse to silence complaints maybe? Who knows.

BTW: I'm having a major stuttering problem with 720P files on the BW atm. Can anyone help? Not sure If I'll get branded a "troll" by the BW fan click if I start the thread here.

[diesel]

BTW: I'm having a major stuttering problem with 720P files on the BW atm.

What sort of files are they...?

Any more info would be helpful

[ZAK248313]

Video specs..: x264 @ 6830 kbps (MKV) 1280x720

Audio specs..: English 5.1 ac3/640bps