Laptop Replacement - SOtM SMS-200 Impressions

[Bilbo]

I am using the 12V 5A LPS for the hard drive dock and run the sMS-200 on a Yellow Top battery.

If you have a look at page 3 of this thread I give my reasons for this configuration.

[Snoopy8]

3 hours ago, rotur said:

Two things...can someone please give me more detail on the QLD power supplies mentioned on this thread? ie how to order and through who... 

Am using one of these:

PM Clay @Gieseler Audio 

[Bilbo]

@Snoopy8

I note that Clay says that after 1.8A current limiting comes into play.

I have measured the sMS-200 current draw under load and the maximum reading was 1.7A.  That doesn't leave much headroom.

The SOtM sPS-500 matching power supply is rated at 5A at 12V so plenty of headroom.

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sps-500/

 

Having tested various power supplies (including the Giesler) for the sMS-200 the higher rated ones (>3.5A) always sounded better.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Bilbo

[Gieseler Audio]

Hi Guys,

I do actually make a 12v 3A supply as well. Cost on those is $350 which includes delivery.

It comes with a nice beefy 12v 6A potted external transformer & the 3A rating is fairly conservative.

It is interesting that the > 3A supplies sound better as SOtM quote 15W max power requirement for the SMS-200

so at 12v that works out to 1.25 A

http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/

I guess it depends how much current you are dragging out of the USB port too. 

Bilbo the 1.7A current drain you measured on yours sound a bit high - did you have a external USB drive plugged in at the time?

 

 

 

 

[Bilbo]

@Gieseler Audio

I have a self powered HDD dock so that's not the reason.  I measured the current draw because when I upgraded to the "Ultra" it sucked the Yellow Top battery dry in less than half the time it took the base sMS-200 unit.  The maximum current arises for a second or two during boot up then idles at about 650mA.  When the Eunhasu web link is activated it rises again to about 1.2A for a couple of seconds.

 

The LPS of yours we tested was 12V and rated at 1.5A but it didn't matter which low current supply we tried the higher output (>3.5A) supplies always sounded better.

In fact the HDD dock is fed by a 12V 5A LPS and anything less than that made the sound very "polite" but lacking dynamics.  The power supply provided with the dock is rated at 3A.

I would therefore encourage your customers to go for the extra grunt (3A+) even though it seems to be overkill based on the specs of the product it's supplying.

[Gieseler Audio]

Hi Bilbo - thanks for the very detailed reply.

I looked up the specs on the SMS-200 ultra & it definitely draws more current (2A) than the standard SMS-200 so that explains why battery drained quicker.

Yes I agree it sounds like it would be better to use  higher (> 3A) PSU's - they will run cooler as well which is always a good thing.

 

 

[Snoopy8]

Most interesting @Bilbo.  If you had to rate on the various tweaks and upgrades that you have done, where would this higher current come in?  I assume the biggest improvements came from std to ultra, std power plug to battery. You also tested powered usb vs not, network, 9V vs 12V plus other things I may have missed.

 

[Bilbo]

Upgrading to the Ultra was a very worthwhile step up from the base unit but the other tweaks are more subtle.

Using a self powered USB HDD dock was clearly better than a USB stick or HDD that required the Ultra to provide power.

Direct USB connection Vs networked drives was much more subtle but better to our ears.

 

The search for the best power supply for various bits and pieces began with the battery to achieve galvanic isolation initially for the Regen (Amber) and then the sMS-200.  One upside to this quest was that we found most DC powered devices that could accept either 9 or 12 volts sounded better at 12V than at 9V.  The Regen demonstrated this easily and the original sMS-200 likewise.  The power supply type is probably the next most important and so we tested everything we had using 12V DC with either low noise LPS or battery.  The battery is best for the Ultra and Regen whereas the LPS proved the winner with HDD docks, preamps (Tortuga) and the DSP Antimode 2.0.  The biggest surprise was that even though most of the gear required less than 2A according to the manufacturer's spec, when we provided more than 3A it always sounded better with a sweet spot at 5A.  For some reason the extra headroom (that some would reasonably argue is not required) always sounded better.

 

In order of improvement value it would look like this:

sMS-200 Ultra > self powered HDD dock > supply's @12V + minimum 3A > power supply type > direct USB not networked audio file access

Edited November 20, 2017 by Bilbo

[craka]

Quick heads up.

I have my sms 200 in the forsale forum if anyone is chasing one.

 

[Jeddie]

I read in this thread that 'Orange Squeeze' app will work.

Could somebody tell me if the 'Squeeze Ctrl' App will work with SOTM SMS -200 ? 

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, Jeddie said:

I read in this thread that 'Orange Squeeze' app will work.

Could somebody tell me if the 'Squeeze Ctrl' App will work with SOTM SMS -200 ? 

Have not used it, but SMS-200 should work with any Squeeze Ctrl App

[smiledon]

Orange Squeeze is my preferred Android contoller. I have tried so many! It is well worth the small cost. Aus$7.

To clarify, as further up this thread, people have struggled with the location of LMS...

 

Separate room desktop running LMS and music files > 1 metre ethernet > router > 15 metre ethernet to hifi room > network switch [5v with lps] > 1 metre ethernet] > SMS200

Android tablet running Orange Squeeze talks to the music library on the desktop via wifi.

[ampdac]

I am using Squeeze Ctrl (mobile & tablet versions) for my sMS-200 Ultra.  Pretty good.

[Bensoundresearch]

Hi All,

Asking for help.  I am still finding my SMS-200 not working (not seeing the DAC) intermittently and often.  I suspect I need to change my USB cable, but to what?  I have tried a lot of strategies.  First I tried turning everything off then on all at once, i.e., my Metrum Musette DAC, a music track on soundirok, and the SMS-200.  Eventually it worked, SMS-200 recognized DAC, and seemed to work for a while.  Then more failure, sometimes mid song.  When this happens I can confirm SMS-200 is no longer recognizing/connected to/seeing the DAC.

 

I tried gnnett's advice posted on 1 July 2017 of making sure the DAC is switched off when the SMS is turned back on.  Not sure if that helped, but, it worked again, then not. Muznuts suggested his issues with SMS-200/roon not working was down to the USB cable and changing it fixed the problem.

 

So thinking my six foot of cheap thin USB cable was the problem, today out of frustration I took the scissors and stanley knife to the cheap 6 ft USB cable that came with the DAC.  I stripped all four tiny wires and carefully twisted together the correct wires and insulated them with electrical tape making it a 20 cm cheap thin USB cable.  SMS worked right away, then stopped after the third song.  Not recognizing DAC again.

 

I still feel exited about upgrading the power supply as Bilbo and others have done, but first I have to figure out what is going wrong with SMS-200 not seeing my DAC.  Any ideas or suggestions?

 

If it helps to know some details about the Metrum Musette DAC, I can offer that:

1. It needs 5V (3V power into its usb socket)

2. The USB receiver comes courtesy of M2TECH's hiFaceTWO

Read more at https://www.audiostream.com/content/metrum-acoustics-musette#2MJBKIFPPXDHZIgR.99

 

In considering a new USB cable, this first point above, that my DAC needs power going in from the USB cable, would suggest that a "normal" USB cable might not be ideal sonically, just as a parasitic external hard drive has been found to be detrimental.  This would suggest that any USB cable I make or buy should be dual headed so the DAC can receive its 5V from a linear power supply, rather than from the SMS-200.  A concern here is that this approach could make the digital "handshake" problem even worse.  Grizzly audio suggested giving the source, such as SMS-200, a resistance with a 1/2 Watt 220 Ohm resistor that would trick it into handshaking with the DAC.  Others have said keep the power ground lead attached between source (SMS-200) and DAC.  A few option have been suggested at computer audiophile https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/15407-modding-usb-cable-to-power-dac-with-external-psu/:

  Something like this from Elijah Audio might afford all these options (the exact one in the image is not on Elijah websight) (image from https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28604-usb-ground-lift/):However,  before I invest DIY time or hard earned cash I would like to find out what the problem is?  The SMS-200 seems to work OK with my ipad, soundirok, and both my spinning and solid state hard drives, but lets me down with it's communication with my DAC.  Any ideas / suggestions anyone.  Thanking you in advance.

Kind Regards,

Ben

[Bilbo]

I think you have the problem identified. Your DAC needs a separate 5V power supply.

I’m sure Elijah Audio can help you out with a suitable cable to facilitate this.

[Jventer]

@Bensoundresearch

If you need separate 5V you can start by trying a dual usb cable. The dual cables both can be connected to the computer one for data and one for power. Alternatively the power one could be powered by a normal phone charger. If that works, you know that a LPS hopefully will also work and be better.

[Bensoundresearch]

Thanks for the replies Bilbo and Jventer,

I can understand a separate 12V power supply with a dual usb cable would help with sound quality, but how would it help with the “digital handshake”?  That is, how would a separate 12V power supply help the SMS-200 to more constently “see” the DAC?

 

More reading suggests that M2Tech hiFace2, as well as their earlier versions, may be fairly susceptible to not connecting with computers.  Does anyone know if it is one of the worse configurations for this problem?

 

Perhaps I should be contacting forums with owners of Metrum Octave mkii and Musette owners and other M2Tech HiFace2 based DAC owners and perhaps contact Metrum directly for advice.

 

Although in fairness there are more than one cases of SMS-200 owners having the same problem, presumably with other types of DAC.

 

As it stands I wouldn’t recommend a combination of the SMS-200 and the Metrum Musette.  It’s frustrating!!!  I only bought the Metrum Musette to use with the SMS-200.  I have never had a DAC or played music from a computer before.

 

Would anyone recommend making a short USB cable with relatively thick solid core copper cable for the signal as well as power and ground leads?

 

I have some left over EICHMANN speaker cable with 17 AWG and 13 AWG solid core copper.  I can ground the ends of cable down to the 0.8 mm diameter maximum accommodated by USB connectors.  Perhaps the handshake problem can be fixed with with really “solid” connection?  Any thoughts anyone?

 

Again thanking you in advance,

 

Ben

[Jventer]

@Bensoundresearch

The usb cable/connection appears to be the issue. What bilbo and I are saying is that it may be that the usb cable do not have enough power to keep the Musette and SMS200 happy.

Try a better/shorter usb cable or as I suggested a dual headed (y) usb cable where the 5v is not coming from the Musette but an additional source, e.g. mobile phone charger /battery pack.

Good idea to contact Metrum and look at Metrum specific forums.

Also not a bad idea to contact SOTM too. 

 

[JDWest]

@Bensoundresearch

My suggestion is that you forget about all DIY USB cables and all approaches to providing separate 5V to DAC until you have the communication problem sorted. Those things are more likely to add extra communication problems than solve one.

 

I did google some things in the hope of helping you. I saw lots of references to such problems with M2Tech USB but couldn't find a fix.  Start by just buying a cheap computer USB2.0 cable and/or borrowing other USB cables to see if that fixes the problem. If not, contact Metrum for advice. Also seek Metrum (and M2Tech) users.

 

Handshake problems on start-up are one thing but you have described a loss of connection mid-song. That is far more unusual so be sure to keep mentioning it. I think it rules out the more common gremlins.

 

 

[gt1482]

@Bensoundresearch One thing you can consider is to add a Singxer F1 between SMS-200 and the Musette and forget the Hiface USB. From my experience, Singxer F1 works very well with SMS-200. It is not expensive (cheaper than any fancy USB cable) and does not need another power supply (and will benefit from any good power you feed to SMS-200). And there's a chance that it will sound better too (the XMOS receiver should be better than the Hiface).

 

I also got mixed experience with different DACs when connecting SMS-200 to them though USB (microRendu and ultraRendu are more trouble-free in comparison). Some of the DACs just work right away and never have a problem. Some of them can be recognized by SMS-200 but no music can be played (DAC info would always show the DAC in "stop" status). After checking with SOTM, they suggested me to try to use Squeezelite mode instead of DLNA as the Squeezelite mode has more configurable parameters to try with the DAC. Interestingly, all DACs that didn't work before just worked in Squeezelite mode (didn't really play much with the parameters) and, when I switched SMS-200 back to DLNA mode, they still worked! Though your problem does not sound the same, you might still want to give this a try and play with the parameters. To use the Squeezelite mode, you will need to do the library config if you are using a NAS.

[smiledon]

Hi Ben,

Searching a solution for you, I found you on computeraudiophile forums asking questions prior to the Musette purchase. You received this reply fro NEWWORLD.

 

"Allow me to share my experience from using Sotm SMS 200 and external dacs.

The Sotm's USB output is very sensitive to the length and type of USB cabling used. When I used it to provide power for an external dac, it would lose connection through 6' generic cables. With shorter lengths, say less than 3' audiophile cables there was never a problem. I'm not sure whether it was the length or the quality of cables that made the difference, but I can confidently say that a 3' Supra cable was absolutely superb. I had also tried Audioquest and Wireworld."

 

In your post, we find you using a cheap 6' generic, in spite of the above, that you then modify, post failure, to solve your problem.

As it is often the connectors on cheap usb cables that are the weak link, I think you are chasing your tail.

I suggest you beg, borrow or whatever a quality short cable.

One explaination, [IMO. the only one,] of a dropped connection mid play, is a dodgy connector.

[Guest gnnett]

Well this is sounding very familiar. I had soldiered on with Soundirok and a Soekris 1101 "portable" DAC/headphone amp. Sound quality grew on me but using the phone still felt a bit clunky and nagging comments from Sotm that it was not the best way to use the sMS200.

I headed in the direction of using Songcast to send all audio from my computer to the sMS, which worked once and then failed.

Sotm (May) then very kindly spent almost 2 hours playing around with the computer and settings in the sMS200 and seemed to identify that the DAC was not being seen for what it is. (Became very geek speak about usb2 series x blah blah) and something about it not working with DSD, although I had no DSD files?

Having said that it now does work with Songcast, but with some "delay" 1 to 2 seconds, video leads sound. Sound quality not as good and develops an occasional needle skip.

Now the DAC is being powered via an upTone Regen and generic cable and based on above I will need to address this. I will make sure I chase through the other great suggestions and if I can get it working reliable for me and the wife (too flaky at the moment for her to put up with) I can see the Singxer with my 1541 based DAC as most likely best outcome.

Thanks for the above suggestions and will not give up just yet. :-)

 

Cheers

 

Grant

 

 

[Bensoundresearch]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

 

Smiledon your finding the reply to the post by “neworld” on computeraudiophile was excellent research.   Neworld’s experience that “The Sotm’s USB output is very sensitive to the length and type of USB cabling used.”  Was just the information I was looking for.  Seems like my research was not so sound after all.  

 

I honestly did not see neworld’s post.  If I had I wouldn’t have asked all of you for help.  Although in fairness to myself I posted my comment and question regarding the Musette vs the Starting Point Systems DAC3 in May 2017 then no one posted again until July and then neworld’s very informative post was only one of seven posts on 21 July.  No wonder I missed it.  But you found it Smiledon.  So TOP RESEARCH!  Thanks so much.  

 

I think I will try making a USB cable, being careful to test it for shorts etc with a multimeter before plugging it in.  If I can’t magage it, I will contact Curious cable about custom cables.  Apparently, so I was told by Curious, it is difficult to twist and bend their stiff cables, if they are short.  SMS-200 owners are probably aware that the type A USB output is vertical, while my Metrum Musette, like most DACs I suspect, has a horizontally oriented type B USB input, hence the necessary twist. 

 

I would also like to be able to use the Curious cable with linear power injection.  I think I read Curious can accomodate such a modification easily.  Thanks to Bilbo and JVentor for quickly suggesting linear power injection.  It sounds like that will the way to go ultimately.  Handshake issues notwithstanding. 

 

Thanks GT1482 for your observation that SMS-200 connects to DACs more consistently in squeezelite mode than DLNA mode and then hence forth more reliably when switched back to DLNA.  This might could save a lot of frustration.  The Singxer F1 might still be required if M2Tech HiFace still proves to be a “dud”.  Although, I have one reservation, would it not require the use of a coaxial cable from the Singxer to the DAC?  Aren’t they best if 1.5 meters?  Hmm let me know.  Seems like the output of the SMS-200 should be clean enough, if hopefully, it can play with hiFace DAC.

 

Thanks JDWest for your advice regarding getting the communication sorted before worrying about power injection or DIY.  Hopefully neworlds findings on SMS-200 sensitivity to USB cable quality and length correctly points to a better/shorter cable as a solution.

 

gnnett, I feel your pain.  I have read some of your other posts and it seems that you maybe, like me, wonder if this whole computer based music venture will be worth it in the end with vinyl and CD so far being the simpler strategies.  And I doubt it will ever sound better than vinyl (insert cheeky emoji).  But I want the convenience of digital too!

 

Thank again everyone,

Kind regards, 

Ben

[gt1482]

27 minutes ago, Bensoundresearch said:

Thanks GT1482 for your observation that SMS-200 connects to DACs more consistently in squeezelite mode than DLNA mode and then hence forth more reliably when switched back to DLNA.  This might could save a lot of frustration.  The Singxer F1 might still be required if M2Tech HiFace still proves to be a “dud”.  Although, I have one reservation, would it not require the use of a coaxial cable from the Singxer to the DAC?  Aren’t they best if 1.5 meters?  Hmm let me know.  Seems like the output of the SMS-200 should be clean enough, if hopefully, it can play with hiFace DAC.

Yes, you will need a 75ohm digital coaxial cable to connect F1 to the Musette. I think even a cheap one will do the job sufficiently well, definitely shouldn't cause any disconnects or dropouts like what you experienced unless the cable is broken. After all, it is just a simple cable with signal and ground and it runs at much lower data rates than what a USB 2.0 cable does. No idea about the 1.5M myth, but it should be more about sound quality rather than reliability anyway. I have never used a 1.5M one myself and never have a problem with shorter or longer lengths. These cables come up quite often in the classifieds, if you are after a good one.

Also, you won't need an expensive USB cable between SMS-200 and F1 either. The Uptone 90 degree USPCB connector should do the perfect job if you can put the F1 at the back side of the SMS-200.

[Snoopy8]

There is a new version of Euhasu that you can upgrade to.

 

Version : V0.4.14
- Date : 29-01-2018
- Update HQplayer NAA to 3.5.2(with configfile)
- Add MPD audio output mixer type option
- Shairport supports all Ethernet ports and WiFi dongle
- Add all Ethernet ports’s static IP setting feature
- Upgrade Ethernet ports automatic reset to DHCP feature
- Update Russian language.
- Update French language
- Add two more DACs for supporting native DSD
- Various small bugs fixed
- Add the kernel check feature for native DSD upgrade