Resolving power cables do they really make a difference

[Lenehan Audio]

1 minute ago, ehtcom said:

 

That may explain the differences then.

The ribbons act as an arial and pick up any stray magnetic field around the mains cables.

In particular the stock cable and ribbon cable.

The two Yarbo's are shielded, one more than the other.

 

All this could equal, better sound staging to more space around the instruments and/or cleaner bass as you work your way up the cable scale.

 

Ok.   This makes some sense ! The Yarbo 9000 has so much shielding it's like a fire hose and is very inflexible .

My Proto's cable had no shielding and the standard IEC of course has none either.

The problem with shielded interconnects is that they sound flat and lifeless compared to a well designed unshielded interconnect , we have tried many $1000 plus shielded interconnects and they were easily beatin by the RibbonFlex.

But your right you do need to be careful with placement or interference can be a problem .

We can still hear differences between power cables with fully balanced systems though . Why do you think the Yarbo 7000 is outperformed by the 9000 ? more elaborate shielding ?      Mike

[audio_file]

I wonder if my standard grey Naim interconnects are shielded..

Maybe that's also why I hear a difference with my power cables and power board conditioner.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

8 hours ago, guru said:

Next time you are over at wes Trev, give me a call and drop around and we can play some music and see what you can hear. No harm , no drama. I might learn something.

 

If I can be bothered loading all my gear into a car, I will. Alternatively, you could just bring a couple of your magic power cables over here. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

Just now, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

If I can be bothered loading all my gear into a car, I will. Alternatively, you could just bring a couple of your magic power cables over here. 

Why do you need your gear ?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 hours ago, wanta911 said:

OK, I've only just caught up with this very enjoyable thread.

 

I have a question on shielding in power cables. It seems that most posters in this thread look for power cables with good shielding/braiding but I have read a couple of articles that actually say that shielding of power cables could be detrimental to SQ. If I remember correctly, companies such as NAIM actually discourage using shielded power cables with their gear.

 

Here's an example from the Empirical Audio site:

 

Power Cord Shielding

Shielding a power cable is unadvisable. It will add significant capacitance to the cable with minimal positive benefit. If you really need this, then the shield needs to be spaced well away from the conductors (large diameter) to minimize capacitance and avoid constraining the magnetic field lines that should couple between the conductors.

Empirical testing has shown that standard shielded 14 gauge stranded power cord sounds less dynamic than unshielded 14 gauge stranded cord when used with audio components that benefit from improved cords. The impedance of the AC electrical system is extremely low and susceptibility to magnetic and RF fields is extremely low for power cables so the benefit is questionable at best. Unfortunately, some of the commercially available shielded cords appear to make some systems sound better, but are actually "tone controls" for taming badly matched or designed components. There is some benefit to shielding if you are trying to protect unshielded nearby unshielded interconnects from the fields generated by the cord itself.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm curious. If indeed your interconnects etc are fully shielded then why does the power cord need to be?

 

Go easy on me Zaph 

 

 

Others have answered your questions quite well. I agree with their synopsis. The cite is partly misleading and just plain wrong in parts. The extra capacitance caused by shielding power cables makes no difference whatsoever. That said, IF the interconnects are poorly shielded (I would argue that they then MUST be replaced, because shielded interconnects should ALWAYS be used - no exceptions), then a shielded mains cable might be helpful. This would be particularly the case, if a switch mode power supply is used in one of the units connected. Again, we come down to how well the product has been designed. No product should allow excessive interference to exit via the mains cable. Unfortunately, such issues are not uncommon. 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Why do you need your gear ?

 

I use ONLY high resolution amplification and preamplification. What would be the point in trusting an unknown system, with (possibly) a host of unknown problems? 

[sir sanders zingmore]

Just now, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

I use ONLY high resolution amplification and preamplification. What would be the point in trusting an unknown system, with (possibly) a host of unknown problems? 

 

Im confused, are you saying that power cables could make a difference in a lower resolution system or one with problems ?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

Im confused, are you saying that power cables could make a difference in a lower resolution system or one with problems ?

 

A shielded mains cable may be helpful if unshielded interconnects are in use, or if there is a problem with noise pickup in a piece of equipment. Since my equipment separates mains earth from audio earth and I ONLY use shielded interconnects, interference is minimised/eliminated. Unless Brian happens to be using the same amplification that I am, I cannot trust that his equipment is adequate to remove all the variables. Mine is. He is welcome to bring his magic power cables to my place and attempt to identify his magic cable compared to a 6 Buck one. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

A shielded mains cable may be helpful if unshielded interconnects are in use, or if there is a problem with noise pickup in a piece of equipment. Since my equipment separates mains earth from audio earth and I ONLY use shielded interconnects, interference is minimised/eliminated. Unless Brian happens to be using the same amplification that I am, I cannot trust that his equipment is adequate to remove all the variables. Mine is. He is welcome to bring his magic power cables to my place and attempt to identify his magic cable compared to a 6 Buck one. 

 

So what you are saying is that power cables make no difference in some circumstances. Have I misunderstood you?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

8 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

So what you are saying is that power cables make no difference in some circumstances. Have I misunderstood you?

 

Of course it is possible for someone with dubious intent to set up a dodgy situation where a power cable change could make a difference. I've said as much. In a PROPERLY set up system, power cable changes are utterly insignificant. For instance:

 

* A shielded power cable may be helpful, if the system is using unshielded interconnects. This problem can be solved by using shielded interconnects (duh). 

* The IEC connectors (which are a crappy choice anyway) may be worn or damaged. A power cable change may improve matters, by virtue of the fact that the connector is unworn and undamaged. Solution: A new $6.00 mains cable. Better still, captive mains cables are vastly superior to ANY IEC connector. 

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

31 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Of course it is possible for someone with dubious intent to set up a dodgy situation where a power cable change could make a difference. I've said as much. In a PROPERLY set up system, power cable changes are utterly insignificant. For instance:

 If we take the emotive language out of this and just answer the question, then it seems that under some circumstances power cables can make a difference. 

[muzzagruzz]

8 hours ago, Lenehan Audio said:

Hi John

.           Ohh Ooooooooh I'm in it now !   After talking to Bill earlier I recalled during the call I said a bunch of cables , after the call I thought about it and I was blind tested on only 4 . The Cables are listed below .

1. Yarbo GY-9000 

2. Yarbo GY-7000

3 . LenehanAudio prototype Ribbon Power Cable

4.  Standard $5 IEC power cable

The first three cables used those cheap $20 connectors off ebay ! Decent quality but definitely not an approved plug.

There were five of us present for this comparison and we were all surprised at the five different sounds we heard . 

We all agreed the Yarbo GY-9000 was the best followed by a tie between my Prototype cable and the GY-7000 , the standard $5 IEC was a shocker it sounded dead and flat .

Tony then said try it blind Mike , so we set up a cover around the power amp and I went out to the front of the factory while the boys did the change .

I came back in and listened to our test track !  I correctly identified the cable .

I went back out and waited for the call ! Came back and listened and immediately said you didn't change the Frikken cable   YeeeeeeeHa

Basically I correctly identified each cable and it was witnessed by the other 4

 

To the naysayers here what can I say ? I can see this all flaring up of course but I'm afraid there is tons of difference between power cables and it's always been easy for me and all my customers to hear .

 

I can say that one of my close friends and an audio nut sat one night while I demoed two speaker cables to him and he said he heard no difference ! I nearly fell off Me bloody chair . He said one more time  > He squinted a bit and said Hmmm maybe ! Not sure !! 

 

One thing is CERTAIN  >> if you can see something and someone else can't you are gonna have one hell of a time convincing him it's there. 

 

For the naysayers,could I have a reasonable explanation for this result ?? I'm serious , could it be mass hypnosis ?  or maybe everyone just wants to be part of the gang ? And their fibbing ? 

 

Please respond with anything you think reasonable !    Regards Mike Lenehan

 

PS. One thing is for sure I won't be marketing a power cable , my cable was whipped by the Yarbo which you can land for $50 per mtr from VT4C  

 

 

With respect, that 'test' wasn't following rigorous scientific methodologies.  Four blokes and a cover over the amp is not going to produce a reliable result. 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

11 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 If we take the emotive language out of this and just answer the question, then it seems that under some circumstances power cables can make a difference. 

 

I answered your question as succinctly as I could. I am sorry you didn't like the response. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

45 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

I answered your question as succinctly as I could. I am sorry you didn't like the response. 

 

It's not about liking or disliking a response, I'm trying to understand. Initially you said (or at least I interpreted) that power cables never make a difference, ever. 

Now you say that sometimes they do.

 

This is useful information. I might be tempted to spend big dollars on a new cable because I hear a (real, not imagined) difference. If that difference is caused due to unshielded interconnects then I could save myself a packet. 

 

Alternatively, I might like the sound I'm hearing and choose to spend big dollars confidently knowing that I'm not imagining the improvement. 

[Guest guru]

2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

I use ONLY high resolution amplification and preamplification. What would be the point in trusting an unknown system, with (possibly) a host of unknown problems? 

Don't worry about it Trevor, your arrogance is breathtaking.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

15 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

It's not about liking or disliking a response, I'm trying to understand. Initially you said (or at least I interpreted) that power cables never make a difference, ever. 

Now you say that sometimes they do.

 

This is useful information. I might be tempted to spend big dollars on a new cable because I hear a (real, not imagined) difference. If that difference is caused due to unshielded interconnects then I could save myself a packet. 

 

Alternatively, I might like the sound I'm hearing and choose to spend big dollars confidently knowing that I'm not imagining the improvement. 

 

I said in many previous posts, that the following may make a difference:

 

* Installing a dedicated power line from the breaker box. This is, IMO, the biggest improvement you can make to a power system by a very considerable margin. I heard the difference on my own system. 

* Removing the badly designed IEC connectors and hardwiring the mains cable to the unit. 

* Using a shielded mains cable may make a difference if the owner is using faulty (unshielded) interconnects. A problem which can quickly be solved by using properly shielded interconnects. Either way, a shielded mains cable need not cost more than a few Dollars:

 

http://www.rkcable.com.au/VFMpowercord.htm

 

Too expensive, IMO, but a very long way from $1,200.00. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, guru said:

Don't worry about it Trevor, your arrogance is breathtaking.

 

Do you really think that, if I did hear a difference on your system, that I would acknowledge it? Your best option is to bring your magic cables to my place and YOU judge them on my system. 

[THOMO]

I tend to agree that paying $1500 for a power cord is ridiculous.

Especially when you can buy what is basically the same thing [clones] for not much more than a standard IEC cord.

I just ordered two 2 metre ones from this online shop for $69 delivered.

http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/e-onlinebuy?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2754

 

They are obvious Oyaide copies-even down to the part numbers.

Several friends and I are using these.They sound just as good as the $1500 ones.

 

In my experience they do improve the performance of some components like my Usher power amps-but I cannot hear any improvement on other  components.But for what they cost why not use them?

[Lenehan Audio]

 
With respect, that 'test' wasn't following rigorous scientific methodologies.  Four blokes and a cover over the amp is not going to produce a reliable result. 

Hi Trickster
I think that would be good enough for repeatable results ! Could you describe what would be rigorous? Remember we all did this together and agreed on the results . Mike



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soundwise]

Thanks for the heads up on Yarbo GY-9000 cable
I wonder how they will sound terminated with
Furutech Rhodium-Plated FI-AU3112-N1?R) FI-28?R?IEC Power Connectors

Total cost for the parts should not be more then $350-$400

Has anyone tried?

 

[audio_file]

3 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Thanks for the heads up on Yarbo GY-9000 cable
I wonder how they will sound terminated with
Furutech Rhodium-Plated FI-AU3112-N1?R) FI-28?R?IEC Power Connectors

Total cost for the parts should not be more then $350-$400

Has anyone tried?

 

Those plugs don't even fit into my Cyrus gear, lol.

Only small plugs fit into them, otherwise the bottom lifts up, or the plug blocks RCA plugs.

[Soundwise]

Looks like Furutech have addressed this issue. I have the same problem with my DAC IEC and usb connector.

 

http://www.furutech.com/2016/11/07/13984/

 

[THOMO]

43 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Thanks for the heads up on Yarbo GY-9000 cable
I wonder how they will sound terminated with
Furutech Rhodium-Plated FI-AU3112-N1?R) FI-28?R?IEC Power Connectors

Total cost for the parts should not be more then $350-$400

Has anyone tried?

 

 

Or you could buy the Oyaide copies for $14.99

Edited December 6, 2016 by THOMO

[audio_file]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

* Installing a dedicated power line from the breaker box. This is, IMO, the biggest improvement you can make to a power system by a very considerable margin. I heard the difference on my own system. 

* Removing the badly designed IEC connectors and hardwiring the mains cable to the unit. 

I wish I could tamper with the unit's wiring, but I'm renting.

I don't like altering equipment because it reduces resale value.

I like having different components I like and swapping them out, and if I find I don't listen to a particular one so much anymore, I sell it.

[Soundwise]

I actually don't mind paying $200-$400 each for a power cord upgrade but i think a Nordost VALHALLA 2 at $7595 is way too expensive. If you have a $1mil system, I'm sure that will be appropriate but I'm not in that league. My budget is limited as I have 10 power cords in my system. I don't mind $400 cords for my mono block power amps but other components get $200 power cords.