Found a beautiful Encel from 1974!! now to get it singing

[clunt]

Hi All (xpost from VinylEngine)

I've just picked up a beautiful example of a classic Australian turntable made by HIFI icon, Alex Encel. It has M.G. 17/4/1974 on a small white sticker on the bottom.

The Encel is in a heavy Veneer Plinth, with a JH Reproducers deck and a Grace G840F Tonearm, with a Grace F8L cart and stylus.

I've ordered a new belt for it from ebay, and given it a clean.

It sounds ok with me manually spinning the test record, so the cart works to some extent and needle has about a 1.2mm height, doesn't look super sharp, but sill has a point.

I'm going to setup the arm as per the manual, and align the cart with the stupid protractor. I've got the speed disc and a light bulb, but I don't think there's any way to adjust the speed other than machining a spindle.

So questions are:

-Does any one have any experience with a table like this? I haven't found a single pic on the net that looks exactly like it?
-Are there any ways to adjust the speed of a JH deck? I've read they run a little fast to compensate for the dustbug?
-How do I evaluate the cart and needle to see if they are still fully functional?
-How much should I pay for a replacement F8L or F8V needle?

Thanks in advance for anyone who has time for a look

[EV Cali]

I have experience of a  JH Reproducers dec. The best thing you can do is carefully remove the arm and put the rest of it in the bin. 

[clunt]

Really? Thats a shame, how come?

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[audiofeline]

The Watts Dustbug was sold as an accessory at record shops to people who were not audiophiles.  I doubt that Mr.Encel would have sold or recommended them.  The best thing you can do is to throw the Dustbug away before the brush does any damage to your vinyl, and hope that removing the adhesive of the post doesn't damage the woodwork, as it has done on so many wooden plinths I have seen. I don't think Dustbugs affected the speed of turntables with a decent motor and platter.  If you throw the Dustbug away you won't have to worry about the speed anymore. 

[audiofeline]

Is there a story behind how you acquired the TT?

[clunt]

Nothing special, it had been in a box in someones shed in Tassie somewhere I think. I bought it cheap as it wasn't turning. Motor turns fine though, hopefully it will be good when the belt turns up.

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[EV Cali]

3 hours ago, clunt said:

Really? Thats a shame, how come?

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I had one of these TT and was quite excited when I first got it as it was an Australian Turntable . Some people have done nice things with them but IMO, apart from ones made of plastic,  it has to be one of the worst TT ever made. The platter bearing  is hopeless, the platter is like a thin saucepan lid, the motors are extremely weak  and after buying a belt and two other motors  it proved impossible to get it to run properly, so I gave up on it. Mine had a sprung plinth. 

I am afraid it was a real disappointment.

I understand they were available as kit's and that probably accounts for some of the chipboard plinths you see them with.

 

After making similar comments to some ones previous post on this site, I said any one was welcome to it for $50 and some one came and picked it up.

This was mine.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by EV Cali

[clunt]

Thanks for the rely. Fingers crossed its just the belt with this one then. Thanks for the heads up.

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[LogicprObe]

Well....................it has a nice plinth!

[audiofeline]

7 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

Well....................it has a nice plinth!

... and a Dustbug!

[clunt]

What about the tonearm? The F8 has gotta be worth keeping, is the Grace G840F worth using? I know its high compliance, but not too much else?

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[EV Cali]

The arm is worth around $300

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Grace-G840F-Tonearm-Cables-Rest-Turntable-/322190460922?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/99502-fs-grace-g840f-tonearm/

 

Not sure if you can still get a stylus for the Grace F8L cart .To tell if it is worn you need to look at it under a microscope and know what your looking for.

There are shops that offer this service but unless you think it is likely to be ok  probably not worth the cost just to be told it is worn out.

 

The problem I found with the motor is that it was very weak and even giving it a push to start, it  just was not capable of turning the platter with the weight of a record and the tone arm on it,  properly.

 

I did consider getting a different motor but the platter did not really justify the expense and time when I had a number of other better TT that would benefit more from some input.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by EV Cali

[clunt]

Thanks for the experience EV, Fingers crossed this one is less weak. Might have an old garrard deck I could swap in. I just didnt want to change a classic melbourne made piece in reasonably great stock condition

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[stevoz]

20 hours ago, clunt said:

Hi All (xpost from VinylEngine)

I've just picked up a beautiful example of a classic Australian turntable made by HIFI icon, Alex Encel. It has M.G. 17/4/1974 on a small white sticker on the bottom.

The Encel is in a heavy Veneer Plinth, with a JH Reproducers deck and a Grace G840F Tonearm, with a Grace F8L cart and stylus.

I've ordered a new belt for it from ebay, and given it a clean.

It sounds ok with me manually spinning the test record, so the cart works to some extent and needle has about a 1.2mm height, doesn't look super sharp, but sill has a point.

I'm going to setup the arm as per the manual, and align the cart with the stupid protractor. I've got the speed disc and a light bulb, but I don't think there's any way to adjust the speed other than machining a spindle.

So questions are:

-Does any one have any experience with a table like this? I haven't found a single pic on the net that looks exactly like it?
-Are there any ways to adjust the speed of a JH deck? I've read they run a little fast to compensate for the dustbug?
-How do I evaluate the cart and needle to see if they are still fully functional?
-How much should I pay for a replacement F8L or F8V needle?

Thanks in advance for anyone who has time for a look

Looks a bit like a Connoisseur BD1 (also sold by Encel's) with that motor spindle cover at the rear right corner. I can't answer questions 1 and 2, Q3 I can only suggest play it on an LP you don't like, maybe on another TT?  In regards to Q4.....good luck!! NOS F8 styli are extremely hard to obtain and after-market replacement styli for the F8 range do not exist,(not so for the F9 range, eg: Soundsmith, but they have a round shank). Some say certain Shure V15 styli can fit the F8 cart, but of this I am not convinced. I tried for months to find a replacement stylus for my F8C cart after I resumed my vinyl journey, and just as I was about to purchase a Shure stylus to try, a used F8L cart plus NOS RS8C stylus popped up on Ebay for $165 so I snapped it up. I consider myself very lucky to have obtained this, so now have two excellent condition Grace carts with genuine styli. I rate the C as better than the L, but not by much. Good luck with it and persist with the stylus search as it is a beautiful cart, some say the 8's are up there with the legendary Grace F9 range.......and that 840F arm is a gem!!

[audiofeline]

1 hour ago, clunt said:

Thanks for the experience EV, Fingers crossed this one is less weak. Might have an old garrard deck I could swap in. I just didnt want to change a classic melbourne made piece in reasonably great stock condition
 

 

If you want a real classic "Made in Melbourne" turntable get an Orepheus Silex - it even has "Made in Melbourne" on the platter mat!  The styling is very cool (IMHO).  They can be superb when restored and set up correctly. 

[clunt]

They're beautiful! I'll take one

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[Ian McP]

 here's a thread on using a Shure stylus in a Grace F8 cart

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8205&start=98

[clunt]

 here's a thread on using a Shure stylus in a Grace F8 cart
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8205&start=98

Cheers, I'll check into it

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[MattyW]

There's a lovely Orpheous Silex needs a bit of work on EBay at the moment....

That Grace G840F tonearm is a beauty by the way

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[mwhouston]

On 4 October 2016 at 1:36 AM, EV Cali said:

I had one of these TT and was quite excited when I first got it as it was an Australian Turntable . Some people have done nice things with them but IMO, apart from ones made of plastic,  it has to be one of the worst TT ever made. The platter bearing  is hopeless, the platter is like a thin saucepan lid, the motors are extremely weak  and after buying a belt and two other motors  it proved impossible to get it to run properly, so I gave up on it. Mine had a sprung plinth. 

I am afraid it was a real disappointment.

I understand they were available as kit's and that probably accounts for some of the chipboard plinths you see them with.

 

After making similar comments to some ones previous post on this site, I said any one was welcome to it for $50 and some one came and picked it up.

This was mine.

 

 

 

I had had an original Formula 4. Yes the platter was wafffer thin and the motors weak and the whole shebang road on springs with foam stuffed in the middle but it worked - sort of.

 

I do notice there is a cult following of (at leaast) the uni-pivot arm. Brothers of the cult are mounting these light weight arms on custom plinths that look stunning. 

 

My my speaker building buddy has a Formula 4 arm but is not prepared to part with it. Mine went in the last Millenia.

Edited October 5, 2016 by mwhouston

[clunt]

THanks for the comments everyone.

I got the new belt in finally, and like a few others I heard of, its going a touch fast.

 

Is there anything I can do short of remaking the spindle to slow it down?

The grace arm and cart are beautiful, but this motor is letting me down

 

[stevoz]

Don't be a stranger Clunt, how's that TT coming along? Got those motor issues sorted? Curious as to how that arm/cart combo sounds......

[monaro8]

On 10/24/2016 at 2:19 AM, clunt said:

THanks for the comments everyone.

I got the new belt in finally, and like a few others I heard of, its going a touch fast.

 

Is there anything I can do short of remaking the spindle to slow it down?

The grace arm and cart are beautiful, but this motor is letting me down

 

Good morning, when you say "a touch fast" how much faster is it spinning?

Have you tested the actual speed...if so...what is it spinning at then?

Most turntables I have checked do not actually spin at 33.3 RPM...some a bit slower, some a bit faster...with small speed variations like this you would be hard pressed to pick any difference anyway.

And how did you test or determine the speed is fast...too fast?

Thx...Vanch

 

PS: you should know too that the "thickness" of your replacement belt will affect the speed...belt too thick or too thin will make a noticeable speed difference

Edited November 8, 2016 by monaro8

[EV Cali]

On 07/11/2016 at 1:20 PM, stevoz said:

Don't be a stranger Clunt, how's that TT coming along? Got those motor issues sorted? Curious as to how that arm/cart combo sounds......

 

Perhaps, like me, he has got so disheartened with it he has taken my advice.

"The best thing you can do is carefully remove the arm and put the rest of it in the bin". 

 

I could be totally wrong on this, but the speed is set by the ratio of the size of the pulley to the size of what it is placed round on the platter. Just like the large and small  cogs on a bicycle.

So it is hard to see how a thicker or thinner belt would make any difference.

 

The TT could be made to go slower by increasing the size of the platter ,with some electrical tape warped round it.

 

 

[clunt]

Good morning, when you say "a touch fast" how much faster is it spinning?
Have you tested the actual speed...if so...what is it spinning at then?
Most turntables I have checked do not actually spin at 33.3 RPM...some a bit slower, some a bit faster...with small speed variations like this you would be hard pressed to pick any difference anyway.
And how did you test or determine the speed is fast...too fast?
Thx...Vanch
 
PS: you should know too that the "thickness" of your replacement belt will affect the speed...belt too thick or too thin will make a noticeable speed difference:sorry:

Cheers for the reply. The belt I bought is about 1.3mm I think. It was 40 bux, so Im gonna attempt the dodgy spindle solution I reckon.
The pitch is audibly wrong, and the 50hz strobe disc looks like its notocably moving toward the left

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