greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 With a budget of about $1500 new or secondhand, I have been reading about: Klein preamp Wyred 4 Sound STP SE Teddy Pardo PR1 What others should i consider? My other components are Holton Audio made 100W Dual Mono (33kohm in), Starting Point System DAC3 w/Bel Canto ulink and Revel M22 speakers. I'm currently leaning towards the Klein but it's a bit of an unknown. The W4S has great reviews but i'm not so sure the passive design will work well with my poweramp (a lightspeed attenuator didn't). The Teddy looks okay too. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 forget entry level ! I'd grab one of these, used to go for $2k + 2nd hand not that long ago. not sure why so cheap here ! http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/108449-fs-musical-fidelity-mf-a5cr-pre-rrp-4k/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooogh Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 If you want a valve pre-amp new the Croft Micro 25 gives you the lot and phono inputs as well. Nothing fancy, just smart quality build around tried and trusted circuits. A good valve pre in front of SS is so often a winning combination that gives the best of both worlds. Betty Boop is on the money though, grab a crazy bargain in the second hand market, suddenly you are shopping in the kind of places they usually don't let you into. Personally I would be wary of adding a passive pre-amp, it is a far greater gamble with less predictable results. Happy shopping 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Thanks for the recommendations bb and HB. This gives me something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Get this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIO-RESEARCH-SP9-SP-9-HIGH-DEF-STEREO-TUBE-PREAMP-PREAMPLIFIER-WORKS-GREAT-/291826321086?hash=item43f23446be:g:b2UAAOSwRgJXk7DT Or this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/conrad-johnson-pv10a-Tube-preamp-with-phono-stage/152136460841?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35375%26meid%3Df6a8e2d650f84613b30a52266c181afc%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D112051652403 Have it converted to 240V operation. Change the coupling caps to Dynamicaps or Teflon V-Caps. Edited July 28, 2016 by Sir Triode 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 A few tube preamp recommendations. I have no experience with tubes. Do they get hot? I have two young boys so have tended to ignor tubes due to (maybe unnecessary) saftey concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Yes, tubes do get hot, but where do you put the amps. I have 2 valve amps - I had covers made to protect against balls hands bodies feet etc etc and have had no issues in 5 years. The models referred to in previous posts IMO could be housed in any rack with adequate ventilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 A few tube preamp recommendations. I have no experience with tubes. Do they get hot? I have two young boys so have tended to ignor tubes due to (maybe unnecessary) saftey concerns. Yes they do get hot to touch but for preamp tubes they will be under the cover of the chassis out of reach - unless you kids use a screwdriver to remove the screws to the top cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Do you turn off tube preamps when not in use? How long to they take to sound their best after being off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Do you turn off tube preamps when not in use? How long to they take to sound their best after being off? Yes you turn them off when not in use. Should not take more than 30mins for them to sound their best. Most sound good from startup and just get better. Edited July 28, 2016 by Sir Triode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'd seriously consider this. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/108000-wyred-4-sound-stp-se/ Uses some very high quality components, a stepped resistor ladder switched by sealed integrated relays if I'm not mistaken and supports Balance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'd seriously consider this. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/108000-wyred-4-sound-stp-se/ Yes been reading about that one. But not sure about passive with the relatively low input impedance of my power amp. I wonder how the W4S would this compare to the MF a5cr? And does the wee Klein pre play in the same league as the amps mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Yes been reading about that one. But not sure about passive with the relatively low input impedance of my power amp. I wonder how the W4S would this compare to the MF a5cr? And does the wee Klein pre play in the same league as the amps mentioned? The WFS has an output impedance of 113 ohms max. That's an easy drive for 33k ohms. Also looking at the gain and Max voltage output suggest it's an easy drive for the Holton's. Edited July 28, 2016 by Addicted to music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Here's a review, http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html Ignore the BS literature, just look at the photos, it tells me high quality componentry and very well laid out. A must for what's asked in the classified here, Edited July 28, 2016 by Addicted to music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Yes been reading about that one. But not sure about passive with the relatively low input impedance of my power amp. I wonder how the W4S would this compare to the MF a5cr? And does the wee Klein pre play in the same league as the amps mentioned? personal experience wiht it myself to comment .ran the mf a5cr myself some ten years gorgeous pre amp, with its matching a5cr power were not shamed feeding some 20k speakers. theyre the super bargain to grab buying yourself some $4k in pre amp. actually the m6 that followed and is still current is pretty much the same at some $6k in rrp. gives some idea the kind of pre amp getting for your money. pure analog and fully featured to the hilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Or 113ohm at vol <63. I notice a high turn over of these W4S amps. Anybody know how the amps mentioned compare to a lightspeed attenuator? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Bb, The MF is pretty old. This concerns me a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Bb, The MF is pretty old. This concerns me a bit. nah... i'm running an even older mf pre amp in my bedroom system. these things were built well. be while yet before anything to be worried about. pre amps like this arent really pushed real hard in their design runs cool as a cucumber for the money as well yeeesh I cant imagine getting anything better for same price let alone twice the price ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Do these preamps have a particular sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Hi greigw, What sort of sound signature are you looking for in a Pre-amp? Looking for fully balanced, built in phono stage etc.? I'm not familair with your model Revel's, but have Revel Ultima Studios, and they really love some tubes, otherwise they can sound a bit clinical. The most musically involving Pre-Amp I've heard for the money is the Vincent SA-T8. Very dynamic, with massive soundstage, has "soul" by the the bucketload, which far too many Pre's lack. Fully balanced line stage, you might be lucky and pick one up close to your budget. This is a mllion miles ahead of "entry level" and has challenged some fairly high end Pre's costing a truckload more. Currently playing around with a Doge 8 which has a built in Phono stage. Sounds promising, doesn't sound quite as musically involving as the Vincent, but need to do some more evaluation with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Hi greigw, What sort of sound signature are you looking for in a Pre-amp? Looking for fully balanced, built in phono stage etc.? Hi iiftm,I recently had a lightpeed attenuator and loved what it did to the sound compared to the squeezebox touch i had been using to control volume. Unfortunately the LS didn't agree with my poweramp. If a preamp could provide the clarity and coherency of the LS with a touch more body or three dimensionality, that's what i'd like. I don't need a phono stage and my power amp is single ended. I wouldn't consider my system clinical. What is important is low volume listening coherency - this is where the lightspeed excelled. Can a preamp help reproduce three dimensionality? More depth and layering would be great. Cheers, GW Edited July 29, 2016 by greigw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I use an SBT but would never consider using it's volume control.shudder! Just set it to max and use any quality pre. Yes a pre can help with what your looking for, you just need the one which has the flavour you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Hi iiftm, I recently had a lightpeed attenuator and loved what it did to the sound compared to the squeezebox touch i had been using to control volume. Unfortunately the LS didn't agree with my poweramp. If a preamp could provide the clarity and coherency of the LS with a touch more body or three dimensionality, that's what i'd like. I don't need a phono stage and my power amp is single ended. I wouldn't consider my system clinical. What is important is low volume listening coherency - this is where the lightspeed excelled. Can a preamp help reproduce three dimensionality? More depth and layering would be great. Cheers, GW Yes, the Vincent SA-T8 will give you that dimensionality, depth and layering you require. It will take you closer to a "live musical experience". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greigw Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 Yes a pre can help with what your looking for, you just need the one which has the flavour you like. Thanks joz. Finding the right one is the tricky bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 It's always the case it seems. There are so many fine sounding pres on the market but they are soooo different in their presentation. Only listening in your own system and enviroment can you make a subjective decision. I have a few quality pres on hand atm and could live with any of them, yet they are very different sounding. And if I had people over for their appraisel and thoughts I'm sure they would all choose differently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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