Building the ideal(ish) Music Server

[AccuTidal]

I have probably posted somewhere here that I'm on a Pi kick. I have three which interface to various DACs etc. The latest one I tried was Pi2 under Volumio with the optical\digital daughter board attached. A friend has a super expensive CD player\DAC with optical in.
 
I want to take it to his place to play the Pi through his DAC. To test the optical interface I bought a Jaycar ($40) optical in RCA out. My main system has a Pi3 with a DIY USB, DSD DAC which I outperforms my Oppo 95 for sound quality.
 
For $40 it would be hard to beat the Jaycar DAC with both selectable optical and digital inputs. You could even run two sources into the DAC and switch between them. It supports 24/192 but I have also played DSD64 files through it.
 
Whether for a main system of a second system the above combo punches way above its weight. Has anyone else tried a similar setup? 

I have done may arms' journey, few years back too....!
Currently testing this combo on picoreplayer.

[Guest scumbag]

The PI thing has been catching my attention lately. It seems to have huge potential. We are truly spoilt for options these days!

[AccuTidal]

The PI thing has been catching my attention lately. It seems to have huge potential. We are truly spoilt for options these days!

I liked it! Definitely worth pursuing.

I plan to also provide services to audiophiles within Australia for custom build of their intended server, whether the RPi or Big boy player via USB...,! All can discuss with recommendations...! Great if you can DIY, otherwise I can help doing the legs work for you.

Will soon setup the web page for these...!

[realysm42]

Hi Gang,

Having a nightmare with my new PC build, I've spent a good few days trying to troubleshoot. I've emailed Paul Hynes (the PSU builder) to ask his advice; instead of rephrasing the question I'll leave it as I sent to him. Btw this is the power of the PSU I'm using: One rail (Hdplex input) (13A), Sotm card (3A) and two SSD rails (3A each).

I've built a new PC and it won't power up.  I've spent days troubleshooting the hardware exhaustively. From what I can tell everything is ok (there is a risk that the CPU/motherboard itself is no good but it's all brand new and been handled very carefully). Power does go through the motherboard because lights come on (eg the led in the mouse lights up when plugged in). Before I bought PSU from you I used one of these for my old computer. To turn my audio pc on I would have to:

 

1. Turn the LDA PSU on 
2. Turn the PC on on the front panel (you'd have to do this very fast for it to actually boot up)
3. If you didn't do this fast enough, you'd need to turn the LDA PSU off and repeat from step 1 until you got it right

 

I wasn't sure if this was the psu at the time or the pc; that was answered when I bought the PSU from you, the same thing happens; I need to turn on the PSU and the PC very quickly together for them to work. Once this is achieved, I can turn the pc off from the front panel/desktop as I please, but need to repeat the process if the PSU ever gets turned off). It's like some sort of electronic handshake needs to happen, then I'm ok.

 

I put the old build back together and found it very difficult to get it to turn back on.What confuses me is the new CPU and RAM and more efficient that the older stuff and so should needless power than the old set-up if anything. I'm worried I'm going to damage the PHPSU with all of the turning off and on again.

 

When I turn it on, the power light comes on but very faintly and then usually flickers out; with the new system I've never had anymore than that. Assuming all of the PC hardware is okay (which it might not be but I'm trying to work through everything) and that this is some sort of power issue, do you have any advice or suggestions please?

 

Can you let me know the spec you built the PSU to - my main concern is it's not supplying enough juice somehow. Here are the components used in the new build:

 

Processor intel i7 6700t (same TDP as my old processor and built on a 14nm process, so should be more efficient)

 

RAM crucial 16gb (2x8gb) ddr4 single rank kit (again, lower power requirements that before as its ddr4, not ddr3)

 

Motherboard Gigabyte LGA1151 GA-h110m-s2h

 

My gut feeling is the PSU can't supply enough juice or the Motherboard is faulty somehow - any ideas?

 

[realysm42]

Actaully thinking about it, if anyone in melbourne area has a spare beefy atx psu that i could borrow, just to see if that powers the system that'd be another thing ticked off the troubleshooting list?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Keith_W]

If you suspect that the PSU can't supply enough juice, try removing power from all devices except the motherboard. This means - no power to your SATA drives, your SOTM card, optical drives, and GPU. The PC should be able to POST and give an error. You then need to borrow a more powerful PSU and confirm that all the devices start up properly. 

 

If your PC refuses to POST, then it's either a CPU or motherboard problem. 

 

(edit) I have a spare 160W SMPS that you can borrow. It outputs 12VDC. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by Keith_W

[AccuTidal]

Is this the first time that psu was used, and was using for this problematic server?

The rush of current might be the culprit of damaging your cmos bios chip.

Pull the power off completely - reset the bios manually via jumper in accordance to the mobo's manual. Follow by trying a different but standardised psu.

If that is working, then your linear psu has in-rush current issue, which is what I mentioned in earlier post.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[realysm42]

Thanks gents. This is why i suspect its the mobo or cpu as the same psu works on my old system, which in theory should be a hungrier animal.

I've disconnected everything (even tried with 2, 1 (both slots) and 0 sticks of ram) and still nothing.

Thanks Keith that will be a great help.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[rocky500]

I had a motherboard with an older bios from new that would not post because the CPU was too new.

Had to put an older CPU in there and then flash the bios, so it would then support the newer CPU.

Don't think this is your problem, but thought I would throw it out there.

 

You can normally goto Gigabytes site and check what bios's support what CPU's.

The bios version you have might have a sticker on the bios chip to indicate what it originally comes with.

Edited October 16, 2016 by rocky500

[realysm42]

Cheers rocky useful to know. I'm popping over to Keiths as we speak to try a psu out; failing that I'll give your suggestion a crack.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Keith_W]

Well, I guess you know the answer now. 

 

To those who are wondering - the PC initially refused to POST. After we reset the CMOS, it POST'ed and we managed to get into BIOS. Looks like the Paul Hynes is underpowered. Very strange, given that the PC was pretty stripped down - only Mobo and CPU, with no SATA drives or any attached devices. The Uptone JS-2 was also able to get the PC to POST. 

[kukynas]

On ?10?/?14?/?2016 at 1:33 PM, Chanh said:

Daniel - Have you carried out the comparison between;

1. The authentic DSD mastered materials, playing direct to a DSD capable DAC?

2. The PCM mastered source via up sampling player like the HQ-player to the same DSD DAC?

If so, any idea which is better? I am certain to put my hard earned monies on the number one for SQ!

 

Wrt ATX management board, a revise version will be released early next year. I will offer to those interested in both pcb and fully tested assemble unit(s). Might consider offering the complete upstream power supplies for those are preferred not to diy. Should the demand for the complete build server is high enough, I will be happy to offer them too. Pls feel free to shoot me a pm with your query or registered your interest? Profit will be donate to snakeoil and StereoNet Australia.

 

Issue is I am currently working away from home and can only work on this hobby on my R&R. Need the primary funding for this hobby somehow....

 

@Chanh my surprise coming from my mobile rig which can do up to DSD128, I wouldn't compare it to my main rig because of different HW+SW so not fully relevant but

I did comparison between direct 16/44 PCM and PCM upsampled to DSD64 on my main rig, my streamer can't upsample to more than DSD64 due to it's limited power so can't try anything else atm...

Comparison was performed on my differential Sabre DAC connected to my streamer running Jriver 22 with its internal upsampler, most audible difference was in bit cleaner details, but this might be just caused by Sabre Dac internal processing and filtering, as I said I can't perform any higher upsampling to confirm my findings so if anybody else can try it would be helpful.

DSD256 and consequently DSD512 should be pushing noise floor and DNR of native DSD DACs into their paper figures so the result should be beyond what PCM can squeeze from those chips, of course it doesn't mean crappy recordings suddenly starts sounding wonderful, SISO will be in this case most probably even more obvious, I got few albums from Stockfish in 24/96 which sounds better than their DSD64 version so there should be certain expectations...

Lot's of reviews around T&A DSD 8 DAC playing DSD512 on the web so just have a look what others saying about upsampling

 

Regards

Daniel   

[Jventer]

On 10/15/2016 at 2:15 PM, Chanh said:

I liked it! Definitely worth pursuing.

I plan to also provide services to audiophiles within Australia for custom build of their intended server, whether the RPi or Big boy player via USB...,! All can discuss with recommendations...! Great if you can DIY, otherwise I can help doing the legs work for you.

Will soon setup the web page for these...!

Great news

[Guest rmpfyf]

On 15/10/2016 at 2:15 PM, Chanh said:

I plan to also provide services to audiophiles within Australia for custom build of their intended server, whether the RPi or Big boy player via USB...,! All can discuss with recommendations...! Great if you can DIY, otherwise I can help doing the legs work for you.

Will soon setup the web page for these...!

 

This is good. Too much overpriced crap out there (was going to say snake oil, but OS trademark) in CA. 

 

In a completely unrelated argument and not at all intended for flog a dead horse... did anyone get around to trying a Pink Faun I2S bridge?

[TP1]

8 hours ago, kukynas said:

 

@Chanh my surprise coming from my mobile rig which can do up to DSD128, I wouldn't compare it to my main rig because of different HW+SW so not fully relevant but

I did comparison between direct 16/44 PCM and PCM upsampled to DSD64 on my main rig, my streamer can't upsample to more than DSD64 due to it's limited power so can't try anything else atm...

Comparison was performed on my differential Sabre DAC connected to my streamer running Jriver 22 with its internal upsampler, most audible difference was in bit cleaner details, but this might be just caused by Sabre Dac internal processing and filtering, as I said I can't perform any higher upsampling to confirm my findings so if anybody else can try it would be helpful.

DSD256 and consequently DSD512 should be pushing noise floor and DNR of native DSD DACs into their paper figures so the result should be beyond what PCM can squeeze from those chips, of course it doesn't mean crappy recordings suddenly starts sounding wonderful, SISO will be in this case most probably even more obvious, I got few albums from Stockfish in 24/96 which sounds better than their DSD64 version so there should be certain expectations...

Lot's of reviews around T&A DSD 8 DAC playing DSD512 on the web so just have a look what others saying about upsampling

 

Regards

Daniel   

 

Interesting observations Daniel.  For your streamer, you could try doing  the  conversion off-line and then playing back to see how it sounds.  That way you wont have extra load on the CPU to convert on the fly . I am experimenting with this at the moment.

[AccuTidal]

 In a completely unrelated argument and not at all intended for flog a dead horse... did anyone get around to trying a Pink Faun I2S bridge?

Lack of motivation due to No DSD capability?

[Guest rmpfyf]

13 minutes ago, Chanh said:

Lack of motivation due to No DSD capability?

 

A lack of DSD material gives me a lack of motivation for DSD  

[AccuTidal]

7 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

A lack of DSD material gives me a lack of motivation for DSD  

I have in exceed 1000 SACDs at this current time and how much would you considering as sufficient?

 

Trust me there are so much DSD out there, more than us knowing about em.

[BioBrian]

Just a quick report to say that my Uptone JS-2 LPS arrived today.

 

I've tried it on my 'Rouge' server (mITX N3700-ASUS STX2 spdif card, etc) and it's a lovely improvement over the HDPlex. A bit like removing flywire screens from windows.

 

Very tempting to go the full "JS-Zilla"...

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, Chanh said:

I have in exceed 1000 SACDs at this current time and how much would you considering as sufficient?

 

Trust me there are so much DSD out there, more than us knowing about em.

 

I have a wife that won't let me buy SACD's, and says I should listen to the CDs I've got  No DSD for a while for me. Even then, I own so much I value in PCM. 

 

In time, DSD. Maybe.

[kukynas]

5 hours ago, Tasso said:

 

Interesting observations Daniel.  For your streamer, you could try doing  the  conversion off-line and then playing back to see how it sounds.  That way you wont have extra load on the CPU to convert on the fly . I am experimenting with this at the moment.

 

for testing purposes good idea, going to convert few of them to DSD256, will report back how it looks...

[kukynas]

some update...few good news and few bad news...

After searching mister google I found there's one easy and not so demanding way to convert PCM to DSD on the fly (thanks to guys on CA forum) without having powerful PC so anybody with i.e. N3700 chipset should be able to convert PCM up to DSD256, for DSD512 I would expect something like i5 four core T version to be sufficient, I was able to manage DSD128 with N3150 running at 70-80% without troubles and dropouts, I will try DSD256 today just for fun...

everything what is needed is foobar2000 or Jriver and foo_dsd_asio driver which acts as standalone converter plugin integrated into either of the players, can be downloaded as AsioProxyinstall , more info here or ask

Another good news is that I now know why my converted PCM files to DSD128 sounded cleaner and relaxed, bad news is that you won't like the audio spectrum of it, will post it later this evening...still don't know why it's looking like that but for me at least this is no go

another bad news is that same filters and antialiasing might be applied during on the fly conversion which means no go either, I might have just bad luck with converter (Jriver) or every converter does the same and than there's no benefit of playing such files

I have no idea at the moment how does the HQ player handles filters and antialiasing so could be beneficial to find out before we start investing into new HW...

Does someone knows about simple audio spectrum analyzer which is capable of display output file? not playback file within player which will be always source file, just to know before I start looking on internet downloading and installing something I don't need or wasting time because there's no such sw, thanks...

If someone knows already all the info mentioned or went through all of this please let us know, it could help saving time and effort.  

 

More info (hopefully) with pictures this evening (my time)

 

Daniel   

[Guest scumbag]

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/DSD.htm

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/measurements-teac-ud-501-dsd-performance.html

 

" As you likely are aware, 1-bit quantization results it lots of noise. DSD deals with this by virtue of the high sample rate - DSD64 at 2.8MHz and DSD128 at 5.6MHz along with noise shaping to shift the noise up into the ultrasonic parts of the spectrum. By doing this, DSD is capable of high signal-to-noise ratio in the audible spectrum rivaling that of 24-bit PCM. However, this noise floor is not flat like for PCM, but rather will gradually increase higher up in the spectrum and then escalate rather quickly by 20kHz for DSD64. "

Edited October 18, 2016 by scumbag

[Keith_W]

Hi Daniel, interesting idea to run your files through a spectrum analyzer. I haven't tried it, but this is how you could do it. 

 

1. Download a spectrum analyzer VST plugin. Link here is for Voxengo's, but there are other free ones: http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

 

2. Install your VST plugin into JRiver via the DSP studio. Instructions here: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Plug-In_Manager

 

3. Configure HQPlayer to output into JRiver's digital in via ASIO. Instructions here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82082.0

[kukynas]

11 minutes ago, scumbag said:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/DSD.htm

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/measurements-teac-ud-501-dsd-performance.html

 

" As you likely are aware, 1-bit quantization results it lots of noise. DSD deals with this by virtue of the high sample rate - DSD64 at 2.8MHz and DSD128 at 5.6MHz along with noise shaping to shift the noise up into the ultrasonic parts of the spectrum. By doing this, DSD is capable of high signal-to-noise ratio in the audible spectrum rivaling that of 24-bit PCM. However, this noise floor is not flat like for PCM, but rather will gradually increase higher up in the spectrum and then escalate rather quickly by 20kHz for DSD64. "

 

none of them but this http://archimago.blogspot.cz/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html unfortunately it doesn't explain my situation described above, it kills several db across entire spectrum, will show later...

 

@Keith_W thanks will try later...