Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 ....I am building a dedicated room at present.....wiring is done......I just cant bring myself to doing more, I suppose I should. I dont need wides as my L and R and going to be against a wall. Heights I think is probably a good idea..........just more money I dont have.....and time Looks like I need another 7 AE mids..................BAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 ....I am building a dedicated room at present.....wiring is done......I just cant bring myself to doing more, I suppose I should. I dont need wides as my L and R and going to be against a wall. Heights I think is probably a good idea..........just more money I dont have.....and time Looks like I need another 7 AE mids..................BAH! I don't know what speakers you are using for your L and R but as I use my L and R speakers for hifi, I have them far away from any walls. In hifi and HT, I find they are best placed so that they form a 60 degrees angle with the listening position. The wides in my case are at 120 degrees and they are actually on the side walls. Not sure if you can picture it, but they are almost mirror images of the side surround speakers. I find this gives a very seamless panning of surround effects. Ah I found a pic - those are the right wide and right side surround speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Interesting. The L and R in my room are (will be) optimally positioned for soundstage and there is some special "stuff"/treatments going on the walls nearby, plus they're baffle mounted. All will be revealed in 18-24 months when finished I find the reflected sound thing hard to stomach. We're talking serious "ambiance" here as opposed to specific objects, it seems like a bit of a crock to me (over and above appropriately placed rears/sides). Imagine pointing your L and R's at the wall instead of the listening position........I know its different, but still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I find the reflected sound thing hard to stomach. We're talking serious "ambiance" here as opposed to specific objects, it seems like a bit of a crock to me (over and above appropriately placed rears/sides). Imagine pointing your L and R's at the wall instead of the listening position........I know its different, but still..... I know but as I said, if you are already putting a projector up on a ceiling mount, adding downward firing speakers like an Anthony Gallo A Diva or some KEF E305 Eggs can't be particularly more complex. Here's a quick impression from someone at the launch for those upward firing speakers. http://www.soundandvision.com/content/first-listen-dolby-atmos-right-home-page-2 I guess positioning is always going to be tricky and that the calibration process may create a surround back emphasis if you have multiple rows of seats but if you have a less complex seating layout, it may work quite well. Onkyo showed the big storm scene from Pi in which the cargo ship capsizes, while Pioneer demo'd the opening scene from Into Darkness in which Kirk and Bones are chased through a jungle by primitive, red-faced natives while Spock is dropped into the mouth of an erupting volcano. In both cases, surround effects were clearly coming from above me from places where I knew speakers did not exist, though I found the Life of Pi demo more convincing and exciting, a difference I attribute largely to how the films were mixed. Unquestionably, though, the ceiling-generated information added a dimension to the surround sound that was obvious and, to my ears, a notable enhancement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't forget you can do 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 also. Dolby seem to suggest that converting your 7.1 to 5.1.4 would be a major step forward but you have to reposition your rear surrounds into the ceiling. I think that this will really suit completely new installs or current 5.1 installs. DTS-UHD is object based too, not matrix and according to their marketing material their DSP will allow for oddly placed effect speakers unlike ATMOS which allow for only ATMOS enabled speakers with top upward fire speakers integrated with mains and surrounds or correctly installed ceiling mounted speakers. I wouldnt read that that way. their suggestion for a 7.1 setup is either 7.1.2: A standard 7.1 setup with a pair of “middle†in-ceiling/ceiling-mounted speakers. or if going further, 7.1.4: A standard 7.1 setup with a front and rear pairs of in-ceiling/ceiling-mounted speakers. dont mind either...but no way would I rip out my wall mounted rears and ever replace with in ceiling sorry ceiling surrounds suck compared to wall mounted surrounds ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Just watched an Onkyo video where they also showed a 9.1.2 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 dont mind either...but no way would I rip out my wall mounted rears and ever replace with in ceiling sorry ceiling surrounds suck compared to wall mounted surrounds ! These are some in ceiling speakers that I wouldn't mind replacing my current speakers with http://www.cepro.com/slideshow/image/3178/ coincident time aligned two-way tho I am still a bigger fan of the powerpoints I am using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Just watched an Onkyo video where they also showed a 9.1.2 as well. suggest have a peep at the link I Posted this morning then... has all variations from dolby including 9.1.2 some more info on dolby atmos, basically upto 4 ceiling mounted speakers, or alternatively speakers that fire up in the air upto the ceiling. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dolby-atmos-home-theater-101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Interesting. The L and R in my room are (will be) optimally positioned for soundstage and there is some special "stuff"/treatments going on the walls nearby, plus they're baffle mounted. All will be revealed in 18-24 months when finished I find the reflected sound thing hard to stomach. We're talking serious "ambiance" here as opposed to specific objects, it seems like a bit of a crock to me (over and above appropriately placed rears/sides). Imagine pointing your L and R's at the wall instead of the listening position........I know its different, but still..... same here. bose tried to make a living on it once... the way I read it the reflected sound thing is more of a compromise solution for those that cant fit ceiling speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 These are some in ceiling speakers that I wouldn't mind replacing my current speakers with http://www.cepro.com/slideshow/image/3178/ coincident time aligned two-way tho I am still a bigger fan of the powerpoints I am using. Don't think there's a choice really if want to be going for ceiling speakers. In ceiling or on ceiling that's the choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't think there's a choice really if want to be going for ceiling speakers. In ceiling or on ceiling that's the choice The Focal Birds might work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 The Focal Birds might work focal do make a range of in ceiling/wall mountable speakers as well. so a few choose from I dare say the new surround formats will spurn range of speakers from makers.... "atmos ready" and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Admittedly he has some vested interests but Andrew Jones claims in Dolby's demos with both upward firing and actual height speakers, he preferred the upward firing ones. It's about the 9 minute mark in this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 hmmm...turned into a bit of a sales pitch or his new range of budget speakers.. anyways with top firing, he did just say its conjecture though of why it might work...and really only for WAF...as he says to get over peoples reluctance for ceiling speakers thats the only reason why theyre considering up firing since cant see too many going with ceiling speakers I myself see this as quite a hit and miss thing....but I can appreciate what he says with regards effects speakers where rather than direct firing which can be a little too in your face, I myself for instance use bi-poles for side surrounds as give that surround ambience but yet directional enough to place effects pretty effectively. perhaps these upfiring speakers might be the same ? dont know... my BS detector also went right up when things like "atmos partners" and hey we should do some speakers" was said...OEMs are rubbing their hands in glee with this stuff. heck not only can we get people to upgrade their electronics for processing ....we can also now get them to replace their speakers as well...for "atmos enabled" speakers. and then as he says....when the blu-rays come out with atmos on them...hell we have to buy all those again as well :lol: what he does say though is the top firing speakers will be completely independant than the speakers you have....so I for one cant see why you couldnt just buy speakers and pop them on top of your existing speakers.... ps castle probably were well ahead of time I guess back in the 90s ! suppose LG has this down pat too, with their htib systems can see all these being dusted off with the "atmos enabled" tag plonked on them to scoot them out the door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primare Knob Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The good thing about Atmos seem like it is a future proof codec and really flexible, which is good for us. Buy a decent pre/pro with some channels to spare and enough calculating power, and it could handle wathever speaker setup you desire for in the future. Seems like a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 hmmm...turned into a bit of a sales pitch or his new range of budget speakers.. anyways with top firing, he did just say its conjecture though of why it might work...and really only for WAF...as he says to get over peoples reluctance for ceiling speakers thats the only reason why theyre considering up firing since cant see too many going with ceiling speakers I myself see this as quite a hit and miss thing....but I can appreciate what he says with regards effects speakers where rather than direct firing which can be a little too in your face, I myself for instance use bi-poles for side surrounds as give that surround ambience but yet directional enough to place effects pretty effectively. perhaps these upfiring speakers might be the same ? dont know... my BS detector also went right up when things like "atmos partners" and hey we should do some speakers" was said...OEMs are rubbing their hands in glee with this stuff. heck not only can we get people to upgrade their electronics for processing ....we can also now get them to replace their speakers as well...for "atmos enabled" speakers. and then as he says....when the blu-rays come out with atmos on them...hell we have to buy all those again as well :lol: what he does say though is the top firing speakers will be completely independant than the speakers you have....so I for one cant see why you couldnt just buy speakers and pop them on top of your existing speakers.... ps castle probably were well ahead of time I guess back in the 90s ! suppose LG has this down pat too, with their htib systems can see all these being dusted off with the "atmos enabled" tag plonked on them to scoot them out the door It's not quite so simple. Those speakers have their own crossover networks and binding posts - so they are just two speakers glued together unlike the ones you linked to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's not quite so simple. Those speakers have their own crossover networks and binding posts - so they are just two speakers glued together unlike the ones you linked to Oh I know that. I watched the whole video ! my point was there were top firing speakers a long time ago…and even more recently…. e.g. the LG ones. the top driver on the pioneers are completely independent, just a xover and binding posts thats all it will take various makers who had these kind of speakers to make them "atmos enabled" my bet is and that was hinted in the video there is no reason top mounted separate speakers don't actually end up on the market. I wonder why any old speaker can't be placed as "toppers" firing upwards. a xover ? well you can just set that in your receiver/av processor as you would any other speaker in your system. it just gives a choice for those waf or otherwise restricted from fitting ceiling speakers like in commercial theatres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Oh I know that. I watched the whole video ! my point was there were top firing speakers a long time ago…and even more recently…. e.g. the LG ones. the top driver on the pioneers are completely independent, just a xover and binding posts thats all it will take various makers who had these kind of speakers to make them "atmos enabled" my bet is and that was hinted in the video there is no reason top mounted separate speakers don't actually end up on the market. I wonder why any old speaker can't be placed as "toppers" firing upwards. a xover ? well you can just set that in your receiver/av processor as you would any other speaker in your system. it just gives a choice for those waf or otherwise restricted from fitting ceiling speakers like in commercial theatres. Admittedly, one could argue Andrew Jones has a vested interest in promoting these speakers. I've mentioned as much in my first post with the video. But his impression when being shown the demos of both designs by Dolby is quite interesting and his explanation about reflections vs direct does make a fair bit of sense. In any case, Onkyo is selling those upward firing add on speakers as standalone if you wanted. Pioneer went another way - and as Jones mentioned it, he liked that he had a bit more $ to play with this time when designing the speakers that he could add a coherent source transducer in a cheap ass Pioneer speaker. He uses similar drivers in his TAD stuff and some of the pricier Pioneers but was unable to do it before in these HT speakers before because of the price point he was targeting. In fact he was able to leverage the same coaxial drivers for both the main direct speakers and the reflection ones - which probably helps with timbre matching as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 What he said about atmos could have been summarised in a few minutes, but was more an hours presentation on the new pioneer speakers, affordable set up at 100s of dollars and obviously aimed at the magnolia chain stores where he's saying they'll be fitted to for demo. Good value stuff and no doubt helped with the large volume of them they plan to sell. His real commitment to the concept I'd see if he fits the same upward firing tech to the TAD range of speakers though. Comes at a confusing time too with pioneer first announcing it would exit the av market and then we read both onkyo and pioneer uniting with the deal yet to be sealed. Not surprising to see upward firing onkyo speakers in that case....perhaps something else to see how pans out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 What he said about atmos could have been summarised in a few minutes, but was more an hours presentation on the new pioneer speakers, affordable set up at 100s of dollars and obviously aimed at the magnolia chain stores where he's saying they'll be fitted to for demo. Good value stuff and no doubt helped with the large volume of them they plan to sell. His real commitment to the concept I'd see if he fits the same upward firing tech to the TAD range of speakers though. Comes at a confusing time too with pioneer first announcing it would exit the av market and then we read both onkyo and pioneer uniting with the deal yet to be sealed. Not surprising to see upward firing onkyo speakers in that case....perhaps something else to see how pans out Yes but that's something the host of the show is responsible for Give a man a subject he's passionate about and he'll talk for hours. So the host of any program needs to be able to direct that energy and focus on key areas. As for TAD designs, I am not sure the target market is the same so it isn't clear why you'd need to see TAD making an Atmos speaker when they don't even make a centre speaker. TAD exists for a totally different niche and market. And rightfully so. FWIW I have heard Atmos in the cinemas and it can be a pretty impressive sound - tho as I have mentioned before, I find myself caught up in the movie and stop noticing the added dimension if the movie is really good. Having said that, I doubt I would be upgrading to this gen. The HDMI 2.0 specs seems incompletely implemented in most of the AVRs (lacking HDCP 2.2 or full bandwidth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 first release in atmos/auro3D from 2L such beautifull music too.... MAGNIFICAT - Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistenewith the lovely soprano voice of lise Granden Berg it will be released as blu-ray audio but to be honest I wish it were a blu-ray standard disc just looking at how beautifull the whole experience would be audio and video in this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly0071 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Looking at the Pioneer and Denon website, come of the current receivers are atmos upgradeable via firmware. What are the hardware requirements for an Atmos receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Looking at the Pioneer and Denon website, come of the current receivers are atmos upgradeable via firmware. What are the hardware requirements for an Atmos receiver? It's mainly this year's models. They were announced prior to the Atmos announcement. The Atmos takes up more processing power so Onkyo has skimped on their room EQ dropping Audyssey for what's been reviewed to be a less featured home brewed version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly0071 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It's a waiting game for me for my next receiver purchase. 4k upscaling and Dolby Atmos. Might not be actually relevant to me in 2015 but maybe in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly0071 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 An external link commenting upon Dolby Atmos http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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