henry218 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 in a strict sense im not, but i can help him to make some decision in regards to build the speakers, as im very familiar to both drivers and i can simulate the xover since i have the necessary data. he can always look for a kit, like jeff b's kairos or a finished kit kalasan, but IME&O the d2608 prob better tweeter for satori mids than the satori tweeter. i have not design satori with scan d2608. the d2608 is a very transparent tweeters, prob the best under $100.
alistairm Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Gents, while very exciting the OP has asked a specific question, being that he's interested in speakers voiced similarly to his AKG 701s. It's a fine question - they're unbeatable cans for the money in my humble opinion. Henry, if he's interested in a DIY solution the OP can contact you directly. For now, let's get back on topic. OP - I strongly recommend you contact Greg Osborn. He makes sublime speakers that are good value and I'm pretty sure he offers trial periods and so on. He's also a pleasure to deal with, so no harm in a phone call. The reality, however, is that you're not likely to get speakers that sound like headphones, where your head is the room. 2
henry218 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 . Henry, if he's interested in a DIY solution the OP can contact you directly. For now, let's get back on topic. . alistairm, there was never an offer from me, it was purely suggestions from experience. Henry
davewantsmoore Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The reality, however, is that you're not likely to get speakers that sound like headphones, where your head is the room. Speakers with well controlled radiation pattern and a well setup room (speaker/listener placement) go a long way towards "headphone transparency" The tone/flavour of the AKG can be arrived at with EQ The imaging of headphones can't really be done on a speaker without DSP tricks (but the assumption is that we don't want that - cos headphones don't "image correctly" anyways) contact Greg Osborn Have only heard one set, but going from what else I know, this is a fine recommendation.
b.d Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Might help if we had a better idea what aspect of headphone sound the OP is chasing. I mentioned Synergy horns because headphones was the first thought I (not the only one) had when I recently heard some Danleys used as near field desktop monitors. Dave mentioned "constant directivity", which the Danleys are (what you using Dave?) but generally the controlled CD designs like waveguides seem less like headphones to me at normal listening distances than typical speakers do, in the sense of having images that occur 'out there' at arms length rather than having that fully immersive experience of headphones (that 'they are here' rather than 'we are there' thing), and which I find dipoles and very wide dispersion designs like Gallo Stradas can give a bit of.
thoglette Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I guess a budget between $1K to $1.5K to upgrade the speakers. Is this realistic? or its impossible on such a tight budget (new or secondhand). Also my amp only outputs 8 or 12.5watts. Really struggling on that budget. And compromises will abound. Especially regarding bass extension. A set of vintage ESL-57s can occasionally be had for that money. A simple D.I.Y. single driver design (Eg. metronome) could be outsourced for that sort of money. Linkwitz's 'Pluto' is also doable (and not beyond anyone who can use a hacksaw and glue) The other option is a powered monitor like the Behringer: B3030A which has had some very good reviews and can be had for $500. If you like the minimonitor approach used NHT superzeros (or Krix Brix or...) can be had second hand for not too much. However, a subwoofer will be required which will use up the rest of your budget (along with driving you mad trying to optimise the crossover) [Edit: as others have mentioned - one needs to work out which of the "headphone" characteristics you like] Edited March 20, 2014 by thoglette 2
Marsy Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I think you will struggle to find what you're looking for at that budget. Headphones are typically much more resolving than speakers at a given price point and remove the room equation from the picture. You'll find speakers tend to give you a different experience. A much better soundstage but compromising in detail. You should try auditioning some speakers with your amp. Something by Zu or Hoyt Bedford may work. Best of luck.
Sir Triode Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I own the K701s - so I am familiar with the sound of the HP and I too love them. IME, I've never heard a pair of headphones ever come close to a well setup speaker system. The soundstaging of a pair of headphones is small and restricted to within the confines of your noggin (never ever being presented in front of you). The only way that it is going to match the large upfront soundstage of a decent speaker system is if you are listening to binaural recordings or use the Smythe Surround system. I'd suggest listening to the Mini-Maggie system of speakers and subwoofer. This desktop setup should come close to what you are looking for in terms of detail since you will be listening to it nearfield and since it employs ribbon tweeters/midrange. The price is within your budget. http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie Mcleans is the importer of Maggies and is in Gosford. Otherwise, I would recommend listening to a set of Electrostatic speakers like Quads or Martin Logans if detailed sound is what you are looking for. Edited March 21, 2014 by Sir Triode 2
betty boop Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 agree 100% triode, even my over decade and a half old little tiny mission 780LEs I picked up on ebay for couple of hundred bucks out does headphones for sound in my experience. and I have owned many headphones from high end to entry level over the years. headphones simply do not get away from the in your head or slightly outside of your head experience and I find quite deficient for that reason. they just dont do the holographic room fillign sound standmounts even small standmounts like the mission are capable off. also headphones simply cant do sound that you feel...that even a standmount can. with the op going down the path of a decent standmount to match the amp he has and taking some care to setup I cant see any reason why cant easily surpass on many levels the sound capable with his headphone setup
thoglette Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 headphones simply do not get away from the in your head or slightly outside of your head experience and I find quite deficient for that reason. I presume you've tried all the various crossfeed schemes (such as Headroom's)? Beyond this point headphones are still 10:1 ahead, in terms of what can be done with a dollar. (And if youre after visceral feel, some of the Head-Fi.org pax were playing with tactile transducers. )
betty boop Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I presume you've tried all the various crossfeed schemes (such as Headroom's)? Beyond this point headphones are still 10:1 ahead, in terms of what can be done with a dollar. (And if youre after visceral feel, some of the Head-Fi.org pax were playing with tactile transducers. ) yes first hand owners experience in systems like headroom, one of my headphone amps comes pre loaded. But nope its not even close for speakers re create. "as to beyond this point ?10:1" sorry while I respect your value judgement, disagree vehemently. using tactile transducers.... I will pass please note I am not anti headphones per say, infact quite the opposite, have been an avid follower of headphones for last 30 years, and while will utilise them to enjoy also fully understand their limitations
thoglette Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 "as to beyond this point ?10:1" sorry while I respect your value judgement, disagree vehemently. Happy with that - they are different animals. I'm quite fond of my Stax and Grado phones - the former still out perform my Ariels on certain things (but that is likely to be a room damping problem) So - given the original poster is using $250 phones and has $1000 to spend you should be well positioned to recommend some specific speakers? (I had a go !) 1
betty boop Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Happy with that - they are different animals. I'm quite fond of my Stax and Grado phones - the former still out perform my Ariels on certain things (but that is likely to be a room damping problem) So - given the original poster is using $250 phones and has $1000 to spend you should be well positioned to recommend some specific speakers? (I had a go !) yep have owned some Stax myself, which did like but unfortunately they became terminally ill on one panel and wasnt worth fixing. jecklin floats their top line model was probably best electrostatic have ever owned. as close as ear speakers as they come have recommended getting intouch with osborn to the OP as they tend to work pretty well with the consonance he owns
gainphile Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I don't see how speakers (or more correctly speakers + room) can match even cheap headphones in terms of fidelity. However headphones have one significant drawback: Spatial distortion. That is the sound comes from *inside* your head. This is unnatural.
alistairm Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I don't see how speakers (or more correctly speakers + room) can match even cheap headphones in terms of fidelity. However headphones have one significant drawback: Spatial distortion. That is the sound comes from *inside* your head. This is unnatural. My speakers leave even my Stax 007s for dead.
oldrose Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I don't see how speakers (or more correctly speakers + room) can match even cheap headphones in terms of fidelity. However headphones have one significant drawback: Spatial distortion. That is the sound comes from *inside* your head. This is unnatural. Agree with this. Headphones may give you a wonderfully transparent sound but they have no sound stage. Also they cannot reproduce bass that you feel rather than hear. 2
thoglette Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 My speakers leave even my Stax 007s for dead. What are they ? And what do they cost?
Equaliser Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Would like to try this pair. I haven't tried the O2 with the BHSE (have with my unfinished but wired for testing KGSSHV) and have tried the 009's with the BHSE, thank goodness OP didn't have these to find a matching speaker on par with this level, you need to literally spend high 5 digit priced speakers along with proper amplification and room treatment to get that sort of detail and ethereal sounding.
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