The biggest step is into fresh beans and grinding on a per cup basis. The Breville machines aren't bad but unless something has changed there will be better machines for around the same price. The grinder is actually more important than the machine so build some expense into your budget for that.

 

I'm not up with entry level machines but some here probably are, and there is lots of chatter and opinions and recommendations at https://coffeesnobs.com.au/. Like hi-fi there are usually bargains in the for sale section as fellow addicts upgrade!

 

Roasting your own is another whole step into excess. Settle for fresh beans (local roaster), decent grinder, and machine. Learn how to use the machines—the skills are non-trivial to acquire; steam the milk and enjoy.

I'm having second thoughts now. A better machine is probably overkill considering I only have 1 or 2 cups every morning. I never drink coffee later in the day.

 

If I was to buy a machine though, I haven't seen any comments about similarly priced units being better than the Breville barista express. I was considering the Delonghi specialista de arte, which is around the same price and it has some nice features, but doesn't extract as well apparently. 
 

You can get a Gaggio for similar price too, but have to add a grinder. I know that the grinder is supposedly uber important, but I'd prefer a machine with built-in one to start. I don't want to invest much considering my minimal coffee consumption.

 

I've been doing a bit of browsing today and there's a refurbed barista express for $415 which is tempting.

11 minutes ago, Esoterica said:

I'm having second thoughts now. A better machine is probably overkill considering I only have 1 or 2 cups every morning. I never drink coffee later in the day.

 

If I was to buy a machine though, I haven't seen any comments about similarly priced units being better than the Breville barista express. I was considering the Delonghi specialista de arte, which is around the same price and it has some nice features, but doesn't extract as well apparently. 
 

You can get a Gaggio for similar price too, but have to add a grinder. I know that the grinder is supposedly uber important, but I'd prefer a machine with built-in one to start. I don't want to invest much considering my minimal coffee consumption.

 

I've been doing a bit of browsing today and there's a refurbed barista express for $415 which is tempting.

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

Freshly roasted coffee gives off CO2 for days, so supermarket beans have to be pre-staled or the packages blow up. Pre-ground is even worse as ground beans start to lose flavour in 3 minutes!

 

(The shop that finally turned me on (addicted me) to espresso used to grind most of his beans in the morning and the morning coffee was so much more flavourful than the lunch or after work cups that a colleague and I started having our morning planning meetings there just after he opened.)

 

One option that might be half-way, if it is possible, is to use re-fillable pods. A small manual grinder and freshly roasted beans can do a much better coffee than pods.

 

 

I only make 2 coffees a day, we purchased a Sunbeam Mini Barista, by default it comes with dual wall filters which will get the job done if you want to use pre-ground coffee, you're done for about $260 new. But we purchased a single wall filter for it $20 and s basic sunbeam grinder for $100.

While its not premium it gets the job done for my Mother and I around $400.

I've tried a breville dose control grinder and we honestly prefer how our coffee tastes through the Sunbeam.

36 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

Freshly roasted coffee gives off CO2 for days,

Is the stuff you buy from these trendy coffee joints freshly roasted? And does one of those containers (forget the name) help with the gassing?

 

I guess what you're saying is that there's no point if the fresh beans aren't going to be used quickly? But then I don't think many (if any) people would use up 250g or more beans per day? 
 

I'll look into refillable pods.

There's a sort of "rule of 3" for how long coffee lasts that goes like this:

ground coffee—three minutes

roasted beans—three weeks

green beans—three years

,

so you have a while to use up roasted beans. Just don't put them in the fridge or freezer. This makes them taste 'dumb'.

 

The trendy coffee joints are usually pretty good at putting roasted dates on the bags. And yes, the one-way valve bags do a good job. There is so much variety in beans, and in roast depth that I'd allocate some time to find the combinations you like. I like my espresso beans at CS 9-10 (see here) but YMMV.

 

1 hour ago, eLicky said:

I only make 2 coffees a day, we purchased a Sunbeam Mini Barista, by default it comes with dual wall filters which will get the job done if you want to use pre-ground coffee, you're done for about $260 new. But we purchased a single wall filter for it $20 and s basic sunbeam grinder for $100.

 

The double wall pressurised filters make it easier to use stale beans but can ruin fresh coffee. Both Breville and Sunbeam used this method. I used to cut out the second bottom of the two for enthusiasts for the cost of shipping. I must have done over 50!

10 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

There's a sort of "rule of 3" for how long coffee lasts that goes like this:

ground coffee—three minutes

roasted beans—three weeks

green beans—three years

,

so you have a while to use up roasted beans. Just don't put them in the fridge or freezer. This makes them taste 'dumb'.

 

The trendy coffee joints are usually pretty good at putting roasted dates on the bags. And yes, the one-way valve bags do a good job. There is so much variety in beans, and in roast depth that I'd allocate some time to find the combinations you like. I like my espresso beans at CS 9-10 (see here) but YMMV.

 

 

The double wall pressurised filters make it easier to use stale beans but can ruin fresh coffee. Both Breville and Sunbeam used this method. I used to cut out the second bottom of the two for enthusiasts for the cost of shipping. I must have done over 50!

Yeh, we had no idea about double wall / single wall filters when we purchased it (not enough research), I also read about cutting them etc. Luckily the Sunbeam coffee machine model above ours does uses single wall filters you can buy separately, its exactly the same 58mm portafilter so we purchased a single wall filter separately.

I really disliked the over frothed creama using double wall baskets, it was cheap/cheesy but it was a step up over instant coffee.

16 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

There's a sort of "rule of 3" for how long coffee lasts that goes like this:

ground coffee—three minutes

roasted beans—three weeks

green beans—three years

,

so you have a while to use up roasted beans. Just don't put them in the fridge or freezer. This makes them taste 'dumb'.

 

The trendy coffee joints are usually pretty good at putting roasted dates on the bags. And yes, the one-way valve bags do a good job. There is so much variety in beans, and in roast depth that I'd allocate some time to find the combinations you like. I like my espresso beans at CS 9-10 (see here) but YMMV.

 

 

The double wall pressurised filters make it easier to use stale beans but can ruin fresh coffee. Both Breville and Sunbeam used this method. I used to cut out the second bottom of the two for enthusiasts for the cost of shipping. I must have done over 50!

Ah ok, 3 weeks for whole roasted is fine.

 

I wasn't talkihg about the valve bags, but a hard container that do the same thing. Assuming beans come in the valve bag I wouldn't need one anyway.

 

I've been doing heaps of research lately and am confused by all the jargon. To be expected though. I had an espresso machine years ago that from memory produced average coffee, but who knows it may have been the "barista"? I remember the tamping process though. When you say pressurised filter, is that the same as portafilter or basket? I saw something about pressurised baskets producing very different results which was surprising. I discovered the bottomless porta today also. 

 

Well, after watching a video by a chef I've watched plenty of, I decided to buy the used/refurb barista express. Had to get the last available one to save a few hundred over a new machine. So now the focus shifts to the bean! I know what sort of characteristics I like in a cup, but not sure how it translates to regions and roasts etc. They usually describe the flavour notes on particular beans anyway.

 

I'll check the other coffee threads for suppliers, but if anyone wants to recommend some here, if it doesn't contradict the rules, I'd be happy to hear.

 

Thanks for the advice Greg and others. 

3 hours ago, Esoterica said:

I'm having second thoughts now. A better machine is probably overkill considering I only have 1 or 2 cups every morning. I never drink coffee later in the day.

 

If I was to buy a machine though, I haven't seen any comments about similarly priced units being better than the Breville barista express. I was considering the Delonghi specialista de arte, which is around the same price and it has some nice features, but doesn't extract as well apparently. 
 

You can get a Gaggio for similar price too, but have to add a grinder. I know that the grinder is supposedly uber important, but I'd prefer a machine with built-in one to start. I don't want to invest much considering my minimal coffee consumption.

 

I've been doing a bit of browsing today and there's a refurbed barista express for $415 which is tempting.

I only have 2 cups a day, I bought a Decent because life is too short to spend any of it drinking bad coffee!

You'd get better coffee from a completely manual Flair 58, it'll have a small learning curve, its a little more fiddly so it wouldn't work if you were making 10 cups a day, but essentially its a manual lever machine and has the potential to make excellent coffee paired with a good grinder

Congrats on the new machine. May it suit you and deliver fine coffee.

 

The filter is indeed the basket. The portafilter is the holder 'cause the Italian for carry is portare! Bottomless portafilters are great for learning what your beans, grind and tamp are actually doing as the water is pushed at 130 psi pressure through the coffee 'puck'. They also mean your coffee has less metal contact before it hits your cup, and they need less cleaning and are easier to clean. I use one all the time.

 

The idea of the valved bag is to enable the release of the CO2 before the bag explodes and to stop the influx of oxygen. They do this better than any hard container.

 

For Espresso Only

(Manual coffee makers are different and this can cause issues as many trendy roasters roast light since they 'cup' (taste-test) the roast using a 'pour-over' method.)

 

By the time the beans are at CS8-9-10 the 'raw' flavours, including some of the fruity and spicy flavours, are diminishing and being replaced with what are often referred to as 'chocolate' flavours. Too light and while the espresso has more fruit it also has raw flavours that make me think of cardboard.

 

Generally,

South and Central American coffees are the classic 'coffee' taste, strong in neither fruit or spice but well balanced. I find Brazilian coffee to be bland.

African and Arabian coffees are fruitier and spicier, with some mild tang. Done just right they can have a taste that reminds me of chocolate Christmas cake!

Indonesian coffees are low in acid and have a heavy, smooth, full-bodied taste. This blends well with African (usually East African) and Arabian coffees. Hence the classic Mocha-Java blend. Mocha is the Yemen port through which coffee has passed for hundreds of years.

Yemen coffee is especially nice (I like Ethiopian as well) but quite expensive and hard to get because of the ongoing war in Yemen.

There are lots of other specialty coffees—Jamaican Blue Mountain, Hawaiian Kona, and copi luwak (gathered from the faeces of the civet cat). I've not found them to be worth the extreme price.

 

Short coffee, a ristretto (stopped or pulled early) will have less caffeine and bitterness than a full extraction, as well as more flavour.

 

Have a great time experimenting and learning. Let us know how you go and what you are liking.

1 hour ago, proftournesol said:

I only have 2 cups a day, I bought a Decent because life is too short to spend any of it drinking bad coffee!

That was similar to my thinking. Too late as far as the machine recommendation. I bought a Breville barista express. If I get right into it, I can always upgrade then.

 

Now I'm browsing the very large range of beans 🥵

 

This sounds alright..

 

"The Runyinya mill is one of 13 mills that form the Akawa project. It was set up in 1990 and has a processing capacity of 50MT of green beans, with 100 traditional drying beds and has approximately 22,000 seedlings in the nursery. The mill is run by Washing station Manager Patrick Dusabe and Agronomist Bernard Kubwimana.

Farmers: All farmers are members of The Akawa Project
Region: Runyinya
Country: Burundi
Processing: Washed
Altitude: 1700m
Varietal: Red Bourbon
Tasting Notes:
Treacle, plum, pineapple.
Espresso Recipe:
20.5g dose for a 48-50g yield, pouring in 25-30 seconds,
ideal as a black coffee."

 

I also might buy some Montville Woodford blend as one of my first lot of beans. Had it a few years ago from a coffee van guy and loved it. 

1 hour ago, GregWormald said:

Congrats on the new machine. May it suit you and deliver fine coffee.

Why thank you good sir!

 

 It's another fun avenue to peruse. I'm right into my food and have gotten into baking lately too. Got a kitchenaid stand mixer on the way, so plenty of baked goods and coffee to come.

 

The bottomless filter does sound good. On the ad for it I saw, they said something along the lines of what you said, that you can see what your extraction is doing and you want to see tiger stripes or something like that.

 

I know a little bit about roasting apparently, as your description has made me realise. As I suspected dark roast = chocolate etc. and light - fresh/fruity. I'm not into the citrus or floral notes, but will try some unusual sounding flavour profiles. Generally though, while I tried a few of these sort of Nespresso blends, I always end up going for caramel/choc/biscuit/plum/almond notes.

 

That guide you wrote about the styles based on regions is brilliant! So helpful. While browsing one roaster, kind of in my area, I looked at an East Timor bean which was interesting. Fish River Roasters they are. That's also where I copied the Burundi one I posted above. I realised I want to buy in person, because it's not worth the shipping cost to buy only 1kg at a time. I found that 1kg will make around 70 double shots, so wouldn't want more considering the 3 weeks rule.

Edited November 7, 20214 yr by Esoterica

p.s.— don't buy a bottomless portafilter. A large hole saw worked easily on mine, and for anybody with a metal lathe it would be a piece of cake. Who do you know?

About 5k is a good budget into a decent (no pun intended) machine+grinder. If you work it out; you and the wife drinks 1 cup a day, thats $10/day. You’ll have return in investment in a year and a half. And this also helps you in your coffee learning curve. 

Even if I was far wealthier than I currently am, I couldn't see myself spending thousands on coffee. It's not that important to me. Anyway, maybe this will change once I get into it.

22 hours ago, GregWormald said:

p.s.— don't buy a bottomless portafilter. A large hole saw worked easily on mine, and for anybody with a metal lathe it would be a piece of cake. Who do you know?

I make things so I'm familiar with a lot of processes, but I can't see how you'd cut the bottom out of a portafilter, because of the thickness and those two spouts, unless they can be unscrewed. I'll take your word for it though, and will look at it when the machine arrives.

 

I have a wood lathe and many machines for metal working, but not a metal lathe. I'm guessing you can remove the handle, otherwise you'd have a a helicopter.

26 minutes ago, Esoterica said:

Even if I was far wealthier than I currently am, I couldn't see myself spending thousands on coffee. It's not that important to me. Anyway, maybe this will change once I get into it.

Or you can drink V60? It’s the best way to enjoy coffee and you dont need a machine, just a grinder. I do v60 80% of the time, my wife uses the machine more then I do now.

3 hours ago, Esoterica said:

I make things so I'm familiar with a lot of processes, but I can't see how you'd cut the bottom out of a portafilter, because of the thickness and those two spouts, unless they can be unscrewed. I'll take your word for it though, and will look at it when the machine arrives.

 

I have a wood lathe and many machines for metal working, but not a metal lathe. I'm guessing you can remove the handle, otherwise you'd have a a helicopter.

It's usual for both the spouts and the handle to be unscrewed. The threads are sometimes coated with thread locker. You'll figure it out. The portafilters are usually chromed brass.

Quote

You'd get better coffee from a completely manual Flair 58, it'll have a small learning curve, its a little more fiddly so it wouldn't work if you were making 10 cups a day, but essentially its a manual lever machine and has the potential to make excellent coffee paired with a good grinder

 

 

So true!  

 

Another option https://www.odysseyespresso.com/argos-lever-espresso-machine

 

 

I've just bought a Niche conical grinder to use in my apartment in Melbourne when I resume F2F work next year. Meanwhile, it's living up here with me and I've been comparting it to my Versalab, now upgraded to M4 level. That meant a new speed controller circuit board, slightly lower gearing and doube belt drive. I've also changed the burrs to some TiN burrs that I got from Frnk Durra from Titan Grinders, so it's new combo conical/flat burrs v the Niche's conical burrs. The Niche is a fine grinder, it's the audio equivalent of a very engaging system that's somewhat coloured and a little bass heavy, easy to listen to but then you suddenly listen to the a system that's neutral, resolving and dynamic - that's the Versalab. Of course, it should be at another level, it costs more than double the Niche, but its amazing how much difference a grinder makes.

 

The Versalab also needs no puck prep beyong a tamp so the workflow is much simpler than it is with the Niche.

Do you guys weight your coffee beans before grinding? I've been doing that but trying to find a quicker method or grinder to make life easier. I'm not in the big time products just Sunbeam coffee machine and grinder atm. I tried Breville dose control grinder but that didn't really work out.

I want to try and simplify the process of making my morning coffee, limit the amount steps involved and weighing the beans is a big part of that.

How do you guys do it?

Edited November 25, 20214 yr by eLicky

28 minutes ago, eLicky said:

Do you guys weight your coffee beans before grinding? I've been doing that but trying to find a quicker method or grinder to make life easier. I'm not in the big time products just Sunbeam coffee machine and grinder atm. I tried Breville dose control grinder but that didn't really work out.

I want to try and simplify the process of making my morning coffee, limit the amount steps involved and weighing the beans is a big part of that.

How do you guys do it?

I've seen guys on youtube.com use test tubes pre-filled. I'm not sure if these are made specifically for coffee aficionados

 

15 minutes ago, Dolphy said:

I've seen guys on youtube.com use test tubes pre-filled. I'm not sure if these are made specifically for coffee aficionados

 

I bought a set of plastic 'test tubes' with screw-on metal lids from eBay. They hold 18g of beans when absolutely packed, this is my usual dose. I'll fill them when I get a new bag of beans and then store the individual dosers in the freezer until I use them. No condensation, no ice crystals and I've been able to remove the hopper and volumetric doser from the Versalab. It works with my workflow as I'm only using a bottomless portafilter

Edited November 25, 20214 yr by proftournesol

36 minutes ago, Dolphy said:

I've seen guys on youtube.com use test tubes pre-filled. I'm not sure if these are made specifically for coffee aficionados

 

 

20 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

I bought a set of plastic 'test tubes' with screw-on metal lids from eBay. They hold 18g of beans when absolutely packed, this is my usual dose. I'll fill them when I get a new bag of beans and then store the individual dosers in the freezer until I use them. No condensation, no ice crystals and I've been able to remove the hopper and volumetric doser from the Versalab. It works with my workflow as I'm only using a bottomless portafilter

This sounds like the go, I'm fussy and want the right dose each coffee so I'll try.

I'm right on 18g as well.

12 minutes ago, eLicky said:

 

This sounds like the go, I'm fussy and want the right dose each coffee so I'll try.

I'm right on 18g as well.

I've bought a Weber workshops dosing funnel, that makes it easier to fill the tubes, it was hard to find a cheap funnel with just the right diameter throat