I love my JBL's, they have a nice alive sound to them, good spread of bass through to the high stuff but its that raw energy they have that I like the most. The nicest sounding speakers I have ever heard were my previous Lenehan ML5 References that went to Brisbane, just sublime sound. But as a lover of live music and hard rock/metal the JBL really fit the bill. I have 4365 powered by the Parasound JC1 monos in the lounge and JBL S312 powerd by ME850 in the shed where I do 95% of my lstening. Maybe one day some 4435 for the shed :D, it is an insulated 9m long by 6m wide space and sounds lovely. As always the money system holds me back.

I never considered sound stage and imagining very much outside a phantom center. Probably because I,d never really experienced it. I always wanted frequency extremes, bass and detail. However now I have imaging and sound stage I don't think I could do without. 🤷

They must actually work. That's a must have. Working well they should teleport me while listening and connect me to life. These days that means accuracy.

My only real criteria is believability- the same as when a good ventriloquist actually makes you believe that the dummy is talking- although you know full well it isn't, you still engage with the inanimate object mentally and emotionally.

44 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

My only real criteria is believability

100%.

Sometimes, as enthusiasts ,we have a never ending search for specific parameters like imaging, sound stage, width,depth and height,but the simple and wonderful reality is that the speakers should just make you believe the artist/s are right there in front of you. If they don't then nothing else matters.

I am working on this myself at the moment. All the speakers I have are excellent ,but none of them schedule the artist's gig and summon them to my room.

44 minutes ago, rantan said:

All the speakers I have are excellent ,but none of them schedule the artist's gig and summon them to my room.

Virtually all recorded music is not a gig, it is a pieced together "thing" that is mixed from recorded separate tracks.
What ratio of live to studio recorded music do you listen to?
I listen to very little live recorded "gig" music so bringing a gig into my room is not high on my priority list.
But when I do, of course like anyone I want it to sound as good as possible.

Getting to believability, well that has to come with a caveat to go with above.
That is, each recording is produced with a somewhat amount of it (believability).
If a recording has high believability, then that's how it should be produced to be considered high fidelity.

If a recording has low believability, then that's how it should be produced to be considered high fidelity.

So let's try and simplify this.

Edited yesterday at 04:31 AM1 day by Satanica

I did not anticipate a vernacular term like Gig to be taken as literal, but anyway.

Also, the definition of hi fidelity is different for many people, moreover, this is a thread where (shock horror) people are invited to describe what characteristics they value in their own choice of speakers ( specifically ) and other audio gear as well.

That is supposed to be the intent.

26 minutes ago, rantan said:

I did not anticipate a vernacular term like Gig to be taken as literal, but anyway.

Also, the definition of hi fidelity is different for many people, moreover, this is a thread where (shock horror) people are invited to describe what characteristics they value in their own choice of speakers ( specifically ) and other audio gear as well.

That is supposed to be the intent.

I'm not trying to argue (with you or anyone), I'm trying to discuss. 🙂

@Satanica

All good mate.

Cheers

Many different valid opinions above, on what people like to hear, many of us have similar requirements too, as long as your happy that's all that matters imo.

I've been to many peoples homes and hifi shops etc, listened to a variety of systems & speakers and enjoyed many of them, some more so than others, each have their own characteristics & benefits.

I have a volume issue, regardless of what speakers or amps I have used in the last 40+ years, I just want to turn the volume up more, especially when she sounds so clean on a great recoding, I do listen to music at moderate levels too....but I love music with some volume, which can be a issue for my ears in the long run, however it engages me more so into the music itself as @rantan said as if they "the band" are in the room.....

Ladies/Gents enjoy your music which ever way you like, as that song goes from Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy

29 minutes ago, Bass13 said:

Many different valid opinions above, on what people like to hear, many of us have similar requirements too, as long as your happy that's all that matters imo.

I've been to many peoples homes and hifi shops etc, listened to a variety of systems & speakers and enjoyed many of them, some more so than others, each have their own characteristics & benefits.

I have a volume issue, regardless of what speakers or amps I have used in the last 40+ years, I just want to turn the volume up more, especially when she sounds so clean on a great recoding, I do listen to music at moderate levels too....but I love music with some volume, which can be a issue for my ears in the long run, however it engages me more so into the music itself as @rantan said as if they "the band" are in the room.....

Ladies/Gents enjoy your music which ever way you like, as that song goes from Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy

If you look up the schematic diagram of how volume in your circuitry is arranged, it will help to discern any issues you have.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual-library.shtml

2 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

If you look up the schematic diagram of how volume in your circuitry is arranged, it will help to discern any issues you have.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual-library.shtml

Thanks... great info on this site, but the problem is not my gear, its me wanting to listen to music, louder than the average person.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Bass13

16 minutes ago, Bass13 said:

Thanks... great info on this site, but the problem is not my gear, its me wanting to listen to music, louder than the average person.

OK but what occurs at lower volume, are your speakers reproducing as well, as what they do at louder settings ? .Asking what is it that is stopping you enjoying them, as much as you enjoy them when playing louder.

4 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

OK but what occurs at lower volume, are your speakers reproducing as well, as what they do at louder settings ? .Asking what is it that is stopping you enjoying them, as much as you enjoy them when playing louder.

There's no logical reason to think that any speaker operates anything other than inferior the louder it gets (more compression, more distortion).

So, what happens to human hearing at lower volumes compared to higher volumes? Oh here it is, it's non-linear.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Satanica

4 minutes ago, Satanica said:

There's no logical reason to think that any speaker operates anything other than inferior the louder it gets (more compression, more distortion).

So, what happens to human hearing at lower volumes compared to higher volumes? Oh here it is, it's non-linear.

So two lots of error, that equipment generally is not designed with lower volume in mind , and lower volume is where we need it to be best. As @Bass13 reports he seems to enjoy it louder, escaping to the only area he can

3 hours ago, Bass13 said:

it engages me more so into the music itself

1 minute ago, stereo coffee said:

So two lots of error, that equipment generally is not designed with lower volume in mind , and lower volume is where we need it to be best. As @Bass13 reports he seems to enjoy it louder, escaping to the only area he can

I don't think it is logical to think that a neutral speaker inherently has error.
If one was to design a speaker for lower listening (raised low and high frequencies - smiley face frequency response) then it will have compromises at higher volumes.

There are ways to apply LOUDNESS compensation, but of course most audiophiles will shy away from the non-purity aspect.

32 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

OK but what occurs at lower volume, are your speakers reproducing as well, as what they do at louder settings ? .Asking what is it that is stopping you enjoying them, as much as you enjoy them when playing louder.

The Hailey 3's do sound great even at low volumes with plenty of Bass too, I just like listening to my music louder than the average person does..

16 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I don't think it is logical to think that a neutral speaker inherently has error.
If one was to design a speaker for lower listening (raised low and high frequencies - smiley face frequency response) then it will have compromises at higher volumes.

There are ways to apply LOUDNESS compensation, but of course most audiophiles will shy away from the non-purity aspect.

Not so , and loudness neither is needed , rather is only inviting distortion. The real problem is one size fits all assumptions that have not been questioned, and remain holding audio equipment back. However there have been historically inventors cleverly solving loudspeaker performance in " what is impossible " ways.

Dynamic EQ (LOUDNESS) is a solution to the problem of low level listening dissatisfaction.
But like I said previously, the "purity" issue is going to get in the way of many an audiophile mind, but that's OK.

8 minutes ago, Satanica said:

Dynamic EQ (LOUDNESS) is a solution to the problem of low level listening dissatisfaction.
But like I said previously, the "purity" issue is going to get in the way of many an audiophile mind, but that's OK.

It is a distraction based on achieving more dissatisfaction , so it is not a solution at all

6 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

It is a distraction based on achieving more dissatisfaction , so it is not a solution at all

....I agree that we disagree.

2 hours ago, Bass13 said:

Thanks... great info on this site, but the problem is not my gear, its me wanting to listen to music, louder than the average person.

I'm interested to know at what measured levels, average/peak.

32 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I'm interested to know at what measured levels, average/peak.

I will take some measurements tonight, with the Decibel X app.

Edited 54 minutes ago54 min by Bass13