We have a single malt whisky thread, let's see if there is enough interest for a cognac thread. I opened a bottle of Martell Cordon Bleu tonight to celebrate the Chinese New Year with some Chinese friends. What an amazing drink. Almost like a floral perfume to the nose. Unforgettable. The Delamain XO Pale & Dry is another Cognac I like a lot.

 

I would like to try the Cognacs of some smaller brands like Ragnaud-Sabourin. Unfortunately, these are pretty hard to obtain in Australia and when they are available, they cost about twice as much as in Europe. The usual problem in Australia. However, the big four brands are priced similarly as in Europe. 

 

I am thinking of importing some older (35 and 45 yo) Ragnaud-Sabourin myself from France. 

 

Anyone else with interest in Cognac?

Not a strong interest, more a curiosity. There is a 1989 Ragnaud-Sabourin in the cupboard, Hennessey VSOP, and a Ragnaud-Sabourin VSOP No.10 as yet unopened. A Ragnaud-Sabourin Grande Champagne recently went as a gift to a friend (who is quite knowledgeable on Cognac), which I'll try when I visit next.

I think Cognac struggles to get enough of a look in due to my Vintage Port predilection!

Wonderful collection. The 1989 Ragnaud-Sabourin must be a treasure. The No. 10 is available in a shop in Melbourne (also in restaurants, e.g. in the Barrio in Ivanhoe) but costs more than a No. 35 from France including porto. In my case, Cognac always had a hard time to compete with my interest in whisky but this is slowly changing.

I've become fond of Cognac myself in recent years. Like with HIFI, I started with the well-known brands. Hennessy, Remy Martin, Martell and Courvoisier. I find all of these enjoyable when rated as VS. I've enjoyed a few of these brands at the XO end of things too. I usually have either Remy Martin VSOP, Courvoisier VSOP or Hennessy VS at home.

As for the more exotic stuff, I would appreciate any recommendations...

If we can include Armagnac, I've just finished a Sempe Vieil Armagnac 1965 and about to open a Bas Armagnac Casterede 1979. I buy one good bottle a decade and make it last!

If we can include brandy, I'm quite partial to the St Agnes XO. Terrific drop and reasonable price for an XO.

As for the more exotic stuff, I would appreciate any recommendations...

 

Some were already mentioned. Not really exotic, but one of the cheapest and at least for my taste best XOs you can buy in Australia is Delamain Pale & Dry, which blends cognacs with an average age of 25 years. Available from Dan Murphy's. Delamain is family-run, does not add colour, uses only grapes from the Grande Champagne and offers only reasonably aged cognac (no VS and VSOP).

 

Otherwise, Ragnaud Sabourin has a famous terroir within the Grande Champagne. A very sympathetic company run by a family of high reputation (Gaston Briand, Marcel Ragnaud are legends). After Marcel Ragnaud's death, the property was divided into Ragnaud Sabourin and Raymond Ragnaud. Both produce highly regarded cognacs. Ragnaud Sabourin uses no colouring, no sweetening and only blends cognacs from the same year. They also state the minimum age of the cognacs used in their blends on the bottle. This is informative because almost always the cognacs are much older than required by the typical age designations (VS, VSOP, Napoleon, XO,...). For example, a Ragnaud Sabourin VSOP No. 10 uses cognacs with a minimum age of 10 years (while VSOP only requires a minimum of 4 years). As far as I know, the VSOP is the only cognac from this house, which is readily available in Australia (this certainly holds for Melbourne).

 

For me, the absence of colouring and sweetening is pretty important (for the same reason, I am a fan of Springbank when it comes to single malt whisky. Springbank also does not use colours and chill-filtering). Another company in the Grande Champagne that sticks to this policy is Dudognon, also readily availble in Australia. Also available are the cognacs of Jean Luc Pasquet, which are quite affordable, and have a good reputation. This is a really small producer in the Grande Champagne. But so far I have not tasted any Pasquet. Their Tradition Familale (a Napoleon) can be obtained here for just under 100 dollars, tempting.

Some were already mentioned. Not really exotic, but one of the cheapest and at least for my taste best XOs you can buy in Australia is Delamain Pale & Dry, which blends cognacs with an average age of 25 years. Available from Dan Murphy's. Delamain is family-run, does not add colour, uses only grapes from the Grande Champagne and offers only reasonably aged cognac (no VS and VSOP).

 

Otherwise, Ragnaud Sabourin has a famous terroir within the Grande Champagne. A very sympathetic company run by a family of high reputation (Gaston Briand, Marcel Ragnaud are legends). After Marcel Ragnaud's death, the property was divided into Ragnaud Sabourin and Raymond Ragnaud. Both produce highly regarded cognacs. Ragnaud Sabourin uses no colouring, no sweetening and only blends cognacs from the same year. They also state the minimum age of the cognacs used in their blends on the bottle. This is informative because almost always the cognacs are much older than required by the typical age designations (VS, VSOP, Napoleon, XO,...). For example, a Ragnaud Sabourin VSOP No. 10 uses cognacs with a minimum age of 10 years (while VSOP only requires a minimum of 4 years). As far as I know, the VSOP is the only cognac from this house, which is readily available in Australia (this certainly holds for Melbourne).

 

For me, the absence of colouring and sweetening is pretty important (for the same reason, I am a fan of Springbank when it comes to single malt whisky. Springbank also does not use colours and chill-filtering). Another company in the Grande Champagne that sticks to this policy is Dudognon, also readily availble in Australia. Also available are the cognacs of Jean Luc Pasquet, which are quite affordable, and have a good reputation. This is a really small producer in the Grande Champagne. But so far I have not tasted any Pasquet. Their Tradition Familale (a Napoleon) can be obtained here for just under 100 dollars, tempting.

Great post, very informative!

Ragnaud Saborin is hard to find, but GS No.4, VSOP No.10, Millesimes 1990, 1989, 1988, Reserve Special No.20 and XO No.25 are imported here by a well known wine wholesaler (effectively an arm of Yalumba).

If we can include brandy, I'm quite partial to the St Agnes XO. Terrific drop and reasonable price for an XO.

Tried that a couple of weeks ago. From Tasmania apparently? Very easy to drink, quite sweet. Not sure if it has any sweeteners. Our host warmed it prior to our imbibing. Nice.

Warming the glass used to be common practice but is probably considered outdated today. Cognac (and I guess other Brandy as well) should be consumed at a temperature between 17-21 degrees Celsius. If the cognac is warmer (e.g. because the glass is heated), the alcohol will overwhelm all those beautiful fragrances that develop after the cognac is poured into a glass. Of course, everyone should drink the way he or she likes. Just a suggestion to try without warming the glass next time. In a restaurant, I would refuse a cognac in a preheated glass. Although I doubt any restaurant is still doing this, unlike three decades ago. During the same time, the most common style of glasses also changed considerably. The Riedel Sommelier glasses "XO" and "VSOP" are great modern day glasses for tasting older and younger brandy. 

Nice thread, and I'm learning heaps already!

 

To date I've only tasted the brands common in Oz as listed by Fechersan, usually VSOP, but an occasional XO (Hennessy).  I did try the St Agnes XO some years ago, but haven't seen it around much here in Tas lately.

 

Thanks fo rthe info on other brands to look out for.

 

cheers

 

mick

Warming the glass used to be common practice but is probably considered outdated today. Cognac (and I guess other Brandy as well) should be consumed at a temperature between 17-21 degrees Celsius. If the cognac is warmer (e.g. because the glass is heated), the alcohol will overwhelm all those beautiful fragrances that develop after the cognac is poured into a glass. Of course, everyone should drink the way he or she likes. Just a suggestion to try without warming the glass next time. In a restaurant, I would refuse a cognac in a preheated glass. Although I doubt any restaurant is still doing this, unlike three decades ago. During the same time, the most common style of glasses also changed considerably. The Riedel Sommelier glasses "XO" and "VSOP" are great modern day glasses for tasting older and younger brandy. 

 

Thanks for the info. I did feel that it was perhaps smoother and sweeter than it should have been, but I'm a noob so that is just a guess.

Just found this thread, ripper! 

 

I'm not really a Cognac drinker, only ever had it once about 5 years ago flying up the pointy end of the plane and saw it on the menu, so gave it a go.  3 finger pours on a 10 hour flight = I don't remember the name of the Cognac...

 

Anyway, looking at getting a nice Cognac for the bar, but has to be in a beautiful bottle because it will be a bit of a centre piece.  Plus, be nice to offer a glass or two to friends who enjoy a decent drop.  So, looking at -

 

#1 front runner - https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_32284/martell-xo-cognac-700ml

 

#2 close second - https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_900948/courvoisier-cognac-xo-700ml

Brandy ... I love it.

As my Avatar would confess.

 

The Australian St Agnes XO is OK at AUs $80 , very dry ... but smooth, no real complexity in flavor as there is no  fruitiness .

It's like it was aged in casks that had been leeched of possible flavoring effects.

 

Not many people know, but vintage Armagnac is still available to be bought , right back to the 20's

 

My recommendation [having tried pretty much all available] is the 1960 Larressingle ..... WoW!

http://www.evinite.com/armagnac-larressingle-1960

 

http://www.buy-armagnac.com/armagnac-larressingle-1960

Edited April 9, 201411 yr by Tweaky

Never had cognac. Where should I start - any suggestions? Or do I just grab the closest bottle in my price range off the shelf and give it a go?

Start - and maybe stop - here. Great value.

Had a Hennessy Paradis (at $70 a measure) on holiday last week. Nice; but wildly over priced. Went back to the cheap stuff - Hennessy VSOP and couldn't precieve any real difference.

 

BUT I'm a Cognac knob - and I like smooth buttery drinks (which Paradis was not) so would appreciate a recommendation for an easy drinking Cognac;  My wife loves the stuff: I'm more circumspect.

 

Isn't Brandy the same stuff (ie a distilled liqour made from grapes) except Cognac (like Champagne) is from France and Brandy (like Sparkling wine) from everywhere else?

Isn't Brandy the same stuff (ie a distilled liqour made from grapes) except Cognac (like Champagne) is from France and Brandy (like Sparkling wine) from everywhere else?

 

True, but it's only a small region in France and the brandy has to fulfil a number of criteria in the production process to qualify as cognac. For example, not any wood can be used for the casks.

True, but it's only a small region in France and the brandy has to fulfil a number of criteria in the production process to qualify as cognac. For example, not any wood can be used for the casks.

 

Cool - thanks. As I say I'm a knob..

Just started on Cognac maybe 12 months ago and really enjoy it as an occasional treat. I have a bottle of Hennessy VSOP there which seems to be quite nice.

Hennessy VSOP sounds like a good place to start.

Brandy is the distilled alcohol of the grape.

 

Brandy aged in oak casks can become two things....Armagnac , which is from a known region and a vintage , and sold as a brand [very good brand]

 

And Cognac , which is always a blend of different vintages from different areas .

Edited April 11, 201411 yr by Tweaky

Opened a bottle of Remy Martin XO Excellence tonight. 85% Grande Champagne, 10-35 years old (average 23). I am enjoying it, very intense fruit.

Brandy is the distilled alcohol of the grape.

 

Brandy aged in oak casks can become two things....Armagnac , which is from a known region and a vintage , and sold as a brand [very good brand]

 

And Cognac , which is always a blend of different vintages from different areas .

Nup

 

Armagnac is one region that produces appelation controlee brandy, Cognac is another. most everywhere else makes 'ordinary' brandy, irrespective of time in barrel.

 

see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Appellation_d%27Origine_Contr%C3%B4l%C3%A9e_liqueurs_and_spirits

 

Cheers

 

Mick

Can highly recommend the Sempe Armagnac - liquid nectar!