Telecine Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm keen Mike if you can fit me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I might have to drop in just to break up the numbers of Bananabenders in one room...I think Herr Cambell outlawed public meetings of three or more of you lot saying it was considered a gang meeting or some such and he'd lock you all up and throw away your colours DACs. I can understand Rob181 being picked out in a line up as he's got that shifty slightly sideways hangdog look of someone who drives a Mack but knows he shoulda got a real truck and Tele actually looks like the lamppost that some spiv on a badly lit corner would lean on...Bill Bhobba? Edward G Robinson reincarnate and Mike 'The Topper' Lenehan...well give him a cigar and a pair of mirror aviators and there's your heavy who 'leans' on people(must be all those half a bloody tonne speaker stands he lugs around!). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Mike...make space for me & Anthony...thanks...Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Actually on a more serious note, how many hours do you think you'll need/be able to let, the comparisons go on for? Four Dacs,same front ends, lots of listening, lots of cable change overs, lots of discussions, a bite to eat, more listening ect ? Did the last one start at about 10am and finish mid/late afternoon? I'd like to come up, just a time thing for me in regards to work schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenehan Audio Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Actually on a more serious note, how many hours do you think you'll need/be able to let, the comparisons go on for? Four Dacs,same front ends, lots of listening, lots of cable change overs, lots of discussions, a bite to eat, more listening ect ? Did the last one start at about 10am and finish mid/late afternoon? I'd like to come up, just a time thing for me in regards to work schedule. we could start at 9am and finish say 6pm. I wont count you in till your more certain Luc regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenehan Audio Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Ok lads looks like 6 confirmed so far Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobugged Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well 7 - don't forget the dominatrix. Otherwise 6 fat blindfolded baldies with nary a whip-biatch would be quite deflating... PM me if you need a different mistress than the regular one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well 7 - don't forget the dominatrix. Otherwise 6 fat blindfolded baldies with nary a whip-biatch would be quite deflating... PM me if you need a different mistress than the regular one. I'm not fat ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobugged Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not fat ; )Aha! Sassy mouth huh? Bet she's going to pay special attention to you now!!!Btw, are you sure those other noobs coming along know what they're really in for? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Count me and Kevin in. And chatting to Stevenvalve he may be able to make it as well. Since he is one of the main people behind the Killer DAC that will make for an interesting time. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolster Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Count me and Kevin in. And chatting to Stevenvalve he may be able to make it as well. Since he is one of the main people behind the Killer DAC that will make for an interesting time. Thanks Bill It will be great to hear his impressions on the day, but won't they carry a little bias as far as selection of the best DAC is concerned. That comment would also apply to others at the shoot-out with an input in DAC designs. Maybe the blind testing/voting should only be carried out by those with no vested interest? Just a thought. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Greetings. It is a shame that some people think that this a big con. obviously they have never been to one of the events. It's not like the state of origin or religiously following your own football team, where just because you live in a certain state you become a one eyed supporter. Personally I don't run any Lenehan gear, but I know good sound when I hear it . I am surprised that within this hobby there are people with such predudice . It wouldn't hurt them to attend one of these events and and say a few nice things for a change . Have you noticed how difficult it is to do back to back testing in audio. You must take what reviewers say with a truck load of salt, most hifi shops are not set up for easy comparison and hifi shows aren't much better, so what are you left with? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawl99 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Greetings. It is a shame that some people think that this a big con. obviously they have never been to one of the events. It's not like the state of origin or religiously following your own football team, where just because you live in a certain state you become a one eyed supporter. Personally I don't run any Lenehan gear, but I know good sound when I hear it . I am surprised that within this hobby there are people with such predudice . It wouldn't hurt them to attend one of these events and and say a few nice things for a change . Have you noticed how difficult it is to do back to back testing in audio. You must take what reviewers say with a truck load of salt, most hifi shops are not set up for easy comparison and hifi shows aren't much better, so what are you left with? Sparkle, True words Sir. Very easy to sit on the bench and criticize. I will say that to do a really meaningful comparison is a VERY difficult, nay, impossible thing to do in such a short time frame. The results of this whole exercise IMO should be viewed as "interesting" but very little more than that. My words are in no way disrespectful to Mike or to the process that is chosen, whether blind or sighted. More in relation to the limitations imposed my the physical world and the compressed time. A significant example of my point I shall give. As one attempts to push the performance envelope of audio reproduction more and more subtle factors come into play. During cable development one of the most significant ones I have struck is that of mechanical settling of cables and RCA connectors. Particularly I have noticed wrt speaker and interconnect cables. Very good cables IME require several days, up to a week or more, for the cable and connector to fully settle after being physically moved. In a comparison such as this the interconnect cables are continually being plugged and unplugged and yanked this way and that allowing no time to settle. Yes all devices being compared suffer the same limitation from this cable movement. But what I have found is that the cable may then be performing at a level of, say, 80% creating a limitation of 80% maximum performance. If the second best component performs at 80% and the best one at 95% say, then no discernible difference will be heard between the two because of the cable limitation at 80%. What is the solution? Well there ain't one that I have found except extended settling periods (a week i use) and testing across a broader range of music. Is this a pain in the A? More so than Most everything else that I have experienced. So again, I feel one needs to take a comparison like this and treat the results as interesting, and not a great deal more. View it in the right context and all is good. A bunch of bald sweaty old men doing what they do apparently! Expect a definitive outcome and then it will definitely hit the fan Cheers Rawl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobugged Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 @ Rawl: There's quite a lot that I agree with. IME, on my system, settling time / warm up / stabilisation has a pronounced impact. My (tubed) dac takes around an hour if not more to really get to optimal performance - so I leave it on 24x7 and only turn it off when I am on vacation. My (tubed) preamp is the same if not longer... I turn it on all weekend but leave it off during weekdays. Compared to inserting my tubed active preamp after turning on from cold, my dac (with it's built-in preamp) is clearly superior. After about half an hour, the tables are turned and this is when I usually insert the preamp into the chain and put my dac into it's preamp bypass mode. Note I run two separate runs of cables so it's a matter of flicking a few switches rather than plugging/unplugging cables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobugged Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) @ Sparkle Well said. And I do applaud the intent of the "shoot out" though I find the very term objectionable. (I prefer bukake) If there be a clear winner from blindfolded panel, I would suggest holding the same session at a different venue, different partnering ancillaries, different participants, blindfolded again of course. If the same clear winner emerges, then that would certainly be of enormous interest to me. At this level (really it's entry-level high end stuff in terms of price, and of limited interest to some of the more serious members including THAT other dac thread started by one well-heeled Mod), I do expect that the differences are marginal, with different strengths that will be outweighed by how these match to the sonic characteristics of the rest of the system and also the room. At the end of the day, again as per Rawl, these are 6 sweaty, balding (not all fat) men, 1 assertive mistress, 4 Dacs, and of course 1 whip to rule them all. All out to have as much fun as possible. Go forth and let loose!!! Edited January 24, 2014 by Audiobugged 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It will be great to hear his impressions on the day, but won't they carry a little bias as far as selection of the best DAC is concerned. That comment would also apply to others at the shoot-out with an input in DAC designs. Maybe the blind testing/voting should only be carried out by those with no vested interest? Everyone of us, me included, has biases. If its anything like the DAC shootout the Killer won about 3.5 years ago now, and Steve attended, it will not make any difference. Virtually everyone, me included, thought the Killer the best DAC there. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) The results of this whole exercise IMO should be viewed as "interesting" but very little more than that. Truer words were never said. There is one way, and one way only, to reach audio-nirvana. You must listen to gear, constantly listen to gear. Go over to friends places, contact guys like me, Rawl and Stevenvalve (names simply what came to my mind first - its not meant to suggest they are more, or less, worthy than others) to hear their systems. Join an audio club. Visit audio stores and makers like Mike. But you must hear gear. As part of that participating in events like this is very worthwhile. Reading the write ups is also worthwhile in deciding what gear should I seek out to hear. But that's all - its not definitive of anything. There is a subculture of people in this hobby that sweat on this sort of stuff and drool over the Absolute sound, Stereophile etc etc believing what others, who they suppose have better ears, have heard more gear etc etc, think will lead them to the promised land. It wont - but experiencing a wide variety of gear just might. Since I have retired, and have been doing just that, my views, tastes etc etc have changed markedly, as I suspect those of anyone who does it will. Thanks Bill Edited January 25, 2014 by bhobba 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) hate the term shoot out. as though theres only one left standing...one winner and looser. we are all mature enough I hope in audio to know one thing will work well in one system/room/setting with good synergies goign on and yet can be really not work out great in another. same when things come down to individual tastes/preferneces various music we listen too. one mans wine is another poison... nice to compare things and walk away with some impressions but there are never any winners and loosers from these things...but lot of fun can be had in comparisons for sure Edited January 25, 2014 by :) al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawl99 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It will be great to hear his impressions on the day, but won't they carry a little bias as far as selection of the best DAC is concerned. That comment would also apply to others at the shoot-out with an input in DAC designs. Maybe the blind testing/voting should only be carried out by those with no vested interest? Just a thought. Wolster, Just reading your post and I understand the point I think you are trying to make. But surely if the testing is indeed done blind then the folks with "vested interests" will have no idea what they are listening to either?? Which makes their vote just as valid as anybody else's would you not think? Rawl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 i apologize for carelessly choosing the word "shoot out".How wrong of me! I thought it might generate some interest- and it has, a surprising amount of it negative! When we wright about audio topics is it more correct to say", That all Hifi people are a bunch of boring nerdy middle age plus men who stare at walls and little electronic boxes, argueing about little bits of wire and other seemingly unimportant stuff?" Sadly if you look at the photographs thats what it looks like! Why not talk it up a bit? I don't know about the rest of you, but i hope that wherever I go to listen music I hope it sounds good and I enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Wolster, Just reading your post and I understand the point I think you are trying to make. But surely if the testing is indeed done blind then the folks with "vested interests" will have no idea what they are listening to either?? Which makes their vote just as valid as anybody else's would you not think? Rawl why must there be a vote ? is it an election why cant people just walk away with their own impressions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawl99 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 why must there be a vote ? is it an election why cant people just walk away with their own impressions Dude, I am so on your team!!!!!!!! Rawl 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipstartcanoe Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) But surely if the testing is indeed done blind then the folks with "vested interests" will have no idea what they are listening to either?? Whether you can see the kit or not, it is often very easy to recognise a sound signature; irrespective of what anyone really thinks "sounds best". Semantics aside, surely this should be about broadening folks insight and experience. Given the typical audiophool cliche I am always surprised folks get so defensive and competitive. I have plenty of gear my mates don't rate as highly as I do. The thing is, whilst I value their opinions, I don't rate them as highly as mine when it comes to knowing what I like! Have fun boys! Edited January 25, 2014 by zipstartcanoe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcarp Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Hi Mike, Can you please include onthebeach and me if there are still places left. Thanks. Edited January 25, 2014 by alcarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A J Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 This excercise seems a little overengineered. The content looks good though, would love to hear all that gear and those DAC's - you guys are in for a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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