vbMagus Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Hello All So I currently have a DL-160 on my KP-1100 which is kinda on its way out, and I’m looking at new carts to replace it with. carts I’ve had in the past are att440mla, dl-110, dl-103r, Shure Mx97e, clearaudio concept v2 (which I hated) and currently running an AT33PTG/III on my Denon dp47f turntable. I’m looking 2 carts at the moment, both very different from each other. First is the Grado Opus 3, which has favourable reviews, but it carries an elliptical stylus, and as soon I see that, I think IGD, which I hate and can hear a mile away. I’ve never used any Grado products before and I’m keen to try something different, but I don’t want IGD, so I’m a bit hesitant. The other is Ortofon’s Quintet Black. I’ve got an iPhono3 Black Label so preamp is not a problem. Again, great reviews, carries a Shibata stylus, and as a bonus, there is video of it on YT playing the Telarc 1812 LP which is a bastard to track, something I haven’t been able to do successfully yet. what I can’t understand, is how some high(er) end carts that are $1000+ are running an elliptical stylus when microline / microridge tracks way better than elliptical ever could. Yet people still buy them. Denon love to obfuscate the exact profile of their styli for the 103 (most say it’s conical, some say elliptical) and yet (I think) the 103’s are fantastic. How is it that they track and sound the way they do with the stylus they have? Is there something inherent with Conical/Elliptical styli that MR/ML can’t match or beat? there’s only a couple of dealbreakers for me when it comes to carts, has to track like a champ - no igd and no harsh mids and highs. And if it’s forgiving of poorer recordings that would be a bonus. I know it would be easier to get a vm540ml and be done with it, but I listen to many genres, from metal, to jazz, to punk, to classical. So I’m trying to step out of the box, hence why I’m looking at Grado and Ortofon. Any opinions and recommendations would be great appreciated. Hi-Fi is a hobby where I feel cant ever stop learning something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe latte Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 hours ago, vbMagus said: Hello All So I currently have a DL-160 on my KP-1100 which is kinda on its way out, and I’m looking at new carts to replace it with. carts I’ve had in the past are att440mla, dl-110, dl-103r, Shure Mx97e, clearaudio concept v2 (which I hated) and currently running an AT33PTG/III on my Denon dp47f turntable. I’m looking 2 carts at the moment, both very different from each other. First is the Grado Opus 3, which has favourable reviews, but it carries an elliptical stylus, and as soon I see that, I think IGD, which I hate and can hear a mile away. I’ve never used any Grado products before and I’m keen to try something different, but I don’t want IGD, so I’m a bit hesitant. The other is Ortofon’s Quintet Black. I’ve got an iPhono3 Black Label so preamp is not a problem. Again, great reviews, carries a Shibata stylus, and as a bonus, there is video of it on YT playing the Telarc 1812 LP which is a bastard to track, something I haven’t been able to do successfully yet. what I can’t understand, is how some high(er) end carts that are $1000+ are running an elliptical stylus when microline / microridge tracks way better than elliptical ever could. Yet people still buy them. Denon love to obfuscate the exact profile of their styli for the 103 (most say it’s conical, some say elliptical) and yet (I think) the 103’s are fantastic. How is it that they track and sound the way they do with the stylus they have? Is there something inherent with Conical/Elliptical styli that MR/ML can’t match or beat? there’s only a couple of dealbreakers for me when it comes to carts, has to track like a champ - no igd and no harsh mids and highs. And if it’s forgiving of poorer recordings that would be a bonus. I know it would be easier to get a vm540ml and be done with it, but I listen to many genres, from metal, to jazz, to punk, to classical. So I’m trying to step out of the box, hence why I’m looking at Grado and Ortofon. Any opinions and recommendations would be great appreciated. Hi-Fi is a hobby where I feel cant ever stop learning something new. The Grado Opus 3 retipped with a Micro ridge takes a good cart to a great cart. Interestingly I recently tested prestige 3 Grados against the Opus ( both retipped) out of interest and thr Opus won hands down which was honestly a surprise as they were not even close. A Shibata is not a great cut in my opinion. A Shibata is a conical with two sword crossing back cuts which results in a contact patch with 6 or 7um minor radius which is too wide to track complex highs in the inner groove. Highs in thr inner groove can be up to 3dB down. Micro ridge minor radius is less thsn half that so it manages the inner grooves way better, with the advantage that due to the ridge the minor radius does not increase as the stylus wears so they don't gradually sonically degrade like other cuts. Fine elliptical cuts like a 0.2x0.7 will track inner grooves as good as a Shibata, but they wear very quickly. There are pics of a study showing a vinyl groove after one play with a 0.2x0.7 tracking at 1.5g and the groove showed visible damage. The damage was probably not audible but worth noting. A conic on the other hand tracking at 2.5g after several plays showed no damage to the groove. All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkaramazov Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 16/01/2024 at 3:10 AM, vbMagus said: . I know it would be easier to get a vm540ml and be done with it, but I listen to many genres, from metal, to jazz, to punk, to classical. So I’m trying to step out of the box, hence why I’m looking at Grado and Ortofon. The VM540ML is an excellent all-rounder, and remains a comparative bargain . In my view this is a much more balanced cartridge than the old AT 440ml or the AT 150MLX, and certainly with less perceived brightness. I haven't heard a DL 160, but I have a DL 110, and I can confidently say the VM540ML is a comprehensively better cartridge - punchy, more detail, better tracking of the inner groove. As per @cafe latte's post, the microridge / microline has many inherent design benefits over other stylus types, including that it is the longest wearing. All other things being equal, I would always take this design over others, and with low cost implementations such as the AT VM95ML available, it is appealing compared to similarly priced elliptical designs from other manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Jones Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I can also recommend the Grado Opus 3, mine is retipped by Chris with a Born/MR and it's very good. Way better than a $3000 Dynavector MC. The other thing with MR is the lower harmonic distortion because the tracing radius is smaller and fits in the high frequency modulation better there is far less distortion. The problem here is if the system it's attached to is hot in the highs it won't have the richness of a cartridge with more harmonic distortion. It's like the difference between a piccolo and a guitar playing a note, the guitar has a much richer sound due to the greater harmonic content of the instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbMagus Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 I ended up purchasing an Opus 3 (Low) for $250! At that price I couldn’t say no. I get the Grado Humm on the Kenwood, so I set it up on the Denon, only it’s not tracking as well as the AT33PTG/II. I know the AT is microline whilst the Grado is elliptical, but still, my Denon DL-160 tracked better than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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