Spider27 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Has anyone tried this type of speakers before? I was thinking to build simple DIY speakers using single wide range driver in voigt pipe or simple mass loaded horn design. My interest in this type of speakers come from laziness of mine. Building speaker cabinet with plywood or MDF takes time and tools and this PVC pipe would save hassle and time and look much easier to build. I am aware of that LXmini and Pluto uses PVC pipe for woofer drivers firing upward and separate tweeter firing forward. However, only thing that I could find with full range driver in pipe firing forward is this photo on internet. I guess that it is not popular and might sound more like organ pipe instead of speakers and would love to hear from someone who tried this type of speakers by any chance. Thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Spider27 said: full range driver in pipe firing forward There are two issues: A long box (pipe) will cause an uneven frequency response at low-ish frequencies. This may not be an issue if you fill the pipe with absorption, or the error falls outside where you wanted to use the driver (Example. The length issue harms the response at 200Hz, but you are crossing the full range driver over to a sub/mid bass woofer) No baffle. This will cause errors in the response at high frequency. Baffles cause errors in the response too, but no baffle (ie. just a small circle) may be worse. These two things could trip up a design.... but won't be an issue if you work them into the design. 8 hours ago, Spider27 said: voigt pipe or simple mass loaded horn design. These designs require specific volumes of air (and path lengths) behind and/or infront of the driver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 38 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: There are two issues: A long box (pipe) will cause an uneven frequency response at low-ish frequencies. This may not be an issue if you fill the pipe with absorption, or the error falls outside where you wanted to use the driver (Example. The length issue harms the response at 200Hz, but you are crossing the full range driver over to a sub/mid bass woofer) No baffle. This will cause errors in the response at high frequency. Baffles cause errors in the response too, but no baffle (ie. just a small circle) may be worse. These two things could trip up a design.... but won't be an issue if you work them into the design. These designs require specific volumes of air (and path lengths) behind and/or infront of the driver. Thank you, Dave. It might be terrible idea after all and will try to build conventional speaker cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Spider27 said: Thank you, Dave. It might be terrible idea after all and will try to build conventional speaker cabinets. If I had followed Dave's advice (not that I asked for it!) ... I probably wouldn't have built these: But they sound magnificent! (I don't miss my Maggies at all. ) Note: these only work bcoz of the magic of DSP! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, andyr said: If I had followed Dave's advice (not that I asked for it!) ... I probably wouldn't have built these: But they sound magnificent! (I don't miss my Maggies at all. ) Note: these only work bcoz of the magic of DSP! Thank you, Andy. Great to see your awesome DIY speakers. I guess that DSP is the future and it is not a magic bullet but does some wonders in many cases and gives lot of flexibility.... Besides, didn't your DIY speakers have diapole 12 or 15" woofers facing each other that covers bottom end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Spider27 said: Besides, didn't your DIY speakers have dipole 12 or 15" woofers facing each other that covers bottom end? Not me, s. That's the rhs spkr in the pic above; in the front corner of the room is a sealed sub which used a 15" Dayton 'Ultimax' driver (courtesy of Paul Spencer). And the same in the lhs front corner. These take over from the mains at 110Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 13 hours ago, Spider27 said: It might be terrible idea after all As long as you account for those issues (ie. the shape of the "baffle", and the dimensions of the "box") in the design, it could be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 12 hours ago, andyr said: I probably wouldn't have built these: Why not? The issues I mentioned can largely be addressed in the crossover / design. 11 hours ago, Spider27 said: I guess that DSP is the future and it is not a magic bullet but does some wonders The issues I mentioned for your (and similarly for Andys) aren't issues which depend on DSP. Actually, (aside from independent correction of phase and amplitude) there isn't anything "magical" about DSP, or even anything that can't be done without it..... so in this case I really don't understand the "only works through DSP". 11 hours ago, Spider27 said: DIY speakers have diapole 12 or 15" woofers facing each other that covers bottom end? Mine are currently dipole and sealed box LF woofers, but I am planning to change to a design like that in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 23 hours ago, Spider27 said: Has anyone tried this type of speakers before? I was thinking to build simple DIY speakers using single wide range driver in voigt pipe or simple mass loaded horn design. My interest in this type of speakers come from laziness of mine. Building speaker cabinet with plywood or MDF takes time and tools and this PVC pipe would save hassle and time and look much easier to build. I am aware of that LXmini and Pluto uses PVC pipe for woofer drivers firing upward and separate tweeter firing forward. However, only thing that I could find with full range driver in pipe firing forward is this photo on internet. I guess that it is not popular and might sound more like organ pipe instead of speakers and would love to hear from someone who tried this type of speakers by any chance. Thank you... I think that driver (in the picture) is too large for the pipe, so either, use a smaller driver, or add a concentric ring baffle of a bigger diameter between the driver and the pipe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted December 26, 2022 Author Share Posted December 26, 2022 14 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: There are two issues: A long box (pipe) will cause an uneven frequency response at low-ish frequencies. This may not be an issue if you fill the pipe with absorption, or the error falls outside where you wanted to use the driver (Example. The length issue harms the response at 200Hz, but you are crossing the full range driver over to a sub/mid bass woofer) No baffle. This will cause errors in the response at high frequency. Baffles cause errors in the response too, but no baffle (ie. just a small circle) may be worse. These two things could trip up a design.... but won't be an issue if you work them into the design. These designs require specific volumes of air (and path lengths) behind and/or infront of the driver. Thank you Dave. Re, 2 possible issues, Yes, I was thinking to stuff poly fill inside pipe like LXMini does. The issue is no baffle. Do you happen to have a suggestion to mitigate this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 35 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: The issues I mentioned for your (and similarly for Andy's) aren't issues which depend on DSP. Actually, (aside from independent correction of phase and amplitude) there isn't anything "magical" about DSP, or even anything that can't be done without it..... so in this case I really don't understand the "only works through DSP". Given that I need to apply, basically: a LF shelf of +2dB @ 500Hz a HF shelf of -8dB @ 500Hz and a peak of 5dB @ 500Hz ... to the 4x mid/bass drivers, in order to achieve a flat response from 110Hz to 2800Hz, I can't see how I could achieve a flat response without "the magic of DSP". Hence my comment that my design only works through DSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 3 hours ago, Spider27 said: Re, 2 possible issues, Yes, I was thinking to stuff poly fill inside pipe like LXMini does. The issue is no baffle. Do you happen to have a suggestion to mitigate this issue? The lxmini gets away with it because they use the driver at frequencies below where its almost omni directional. It's kinda no different to any speaker the baffle shape/size (in your case, the size of the driver) will put errors in the response. With a round small baffle, the errors is compounded as the baffle size is always similar from every point..... It' just something to be aware of when designing the EQ for the driver. 3 hours ago, andyr said: Hence my comment that my design only works through DSP. Those filters are easily achievable with analogue circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Those filters are easily achievable with analogue circuits. And the delay which I need on the mains, as the subs are further away from my ears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, andyr said: And the delay which I need on the mains, as the subs are further away from my ears? 3 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: aside from independent correction of phase and amplitude... .... but also, I was just responding to the speaker in the pic. Edited December 26, 2022 by davewantsmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts