Prometheus

[likwidsh0k]

My only real criticism of Prometheus is the degree of advanced technology - remember that the original Alien was like 30 or 40 years after this prequel, but the technology on the Nostromo was/is far inferior to that on Prometheus itself. Now perhaps mining ships only got the dregs of technology, but it is surprising at how different the 2 movies are from that perspective.

 

I think that is a plausible explanation..

 

Prometheus was perhaps the latest and greatest maybe even bleeding edge tech. Whereas..

 

Nostromo I would liken to say a Datto 180B unbreakable, a couple of hundred year old clunker with two mechanics keeping the constantly breaking down bucket of bolts together with duct tape and chicken wire.

 

Could perhaps apply this to Aliens too, though maybe is also just trying to justify it, that due to the real purpose behind the mission they do not send an elite hi-tech special forces unit but a team of unprepared grunts with low grade tech, and the terra-firming tech would probably also be very basic and functional to get the job done.

 

Yeh, I found the moronic crew to be an issue too. I posted my thoughts on why this might have been in post #37.

 

 

"I figured David bought the black goo on board as his prime goal was to find a way to preserve Wayland's life. The rest of the crew thought they where there to find clues to our creators but where ultimately expendable in favour of Wayland's self-interest. This might also be the reason why they selected a bunch of morons to undertake a mission of this importance. At least I hope that's the reason otherwise they where just poorly written annoying and disposable characters that you might find in a "B" grade slasher film."

Cheers

CJ

 

Sorry I didn't read all the thread first, and thought my B-movie slasher flick was a great reference, but you already called it

 

Very interesting point, and also since reading about the Blade Runner tie ins that also appears to be a common theme running through both movies.. of an entity seeking out and finding their creator on their home world to confront them on how they can prolong their longevity past their design limitations?

Edited January 31, 2013 by likwidsh0k

[peacewise]

If David was constructed by humans and has no soul, and humans were constructed by the engineers - is assuming humans have a soul logical?

Just wondering.

[ENIGMA]

If David was constructed by humans and has no soul, and humans were constructed by the engineers - is assuming humans have a soul logical?

Just wondering.

 

The heirachy and archectecture is different.

[Mr_Gimlet]

If David was constructed by humans and has no soul, and humans were constructed by the engineers - is assuming humans have a soul logical?

Just wondering.

 

I think one of the thinking points of the film was 'what is life' and 'what is creation'. The engineers transmuted existent life, Weyland tried to create it which is what pissed them off.

[Milo]

Found this little (it’s rather long actually) clip on You Tube that seeks to answer a whole lot of questions about Prometheus.

 

 

 

The clip uses a question/answer format and attempts some humor along the way.

 

*If you want to directly go to a particular question, see the list below and jump to the question using the linked list on the You Tube web page.

There are some quite interesting points about the ‘black goo’ and what the Engineers may have been up to.  More than just a plot to wipe out humanity.  The author of the clip starts off by proposing that the ‘plot holes’ that people complain about aren’t really plot holes.

 

If you bear with it to the end, the depth of various aspects of the film is explained further.

I’d like to hear others thoughts on this clip.  I found it interesting, and the author was at pains to say, "it's not stupid". 
The author of the clip regards the film as a true Sci Fi film.
 

This list of question with a time index appears below the clip on the You Tube page.

 

*The time index on the web page is linked to the clip if you want to go directly to a particular question.

 

01:17 Damon Lindelof
01:44 Ties to Alien
02:02 Finding the cave painting
02:14 The trillion dollar project
03:30 Old Guy Weyland
04:38 The title Prometheus
05:05 Vickers and Weyland
05:52 Why is the medpod for males only?
06:09 Is Vickers a robot?
07:11 A giant falling spaceship and logic
07:33 Is Vickers dead?
07:50 How can David read dreams?
08:36 Why is Holloway a jerk to David?
08:52 What is David eating and why?
09:20 Why did David take the canister of goo?
09:42 Infecting Holloway with black goo
10:47 Is David doing A HAL9000?
10:54 Shaw's Caesarean
11:41 What does David say to the Engineer?
12:30 How did David know how to fly the ship?
13:08 Why does Shaw trust David?
13:25 Where do they go at the end?
13:38 Why does the xenomorph look different?
14:07 Millburn and Fifield
14:49 Why are people so stupid?
16:20 What is the sparkly green goo?
16:33 The hologram aliens
17:39 Room with the big head
18:18 Black goo leaking and murals
18:33 Why did the engineer head explode?
18:52 How are we a 100% DNA match?
19:25 What is the black goo?
19:37 What was the snake?
19:40 What was the thing in Holloway's eye?
20:03 What does the black goo do?
20:32 How did Janek know the black goo was WMD?
20:50 Space Jesus
21:18 Is LV-223 a bible verse?
22:38 Why do engineers want to kill us?
23:11 Why is there an xenomorph on the wall?
23:40 Why did the engineers create us?
25:02 What is the mural?
25:24 What was the opening scene about?
25:49 Was that on Earth?
25:58 What did the engineer drink?
26:05 How/Why did engineers leave maps?
26:29 Did the engineers want us to visit them?

[ENIGMA]

The video is well scripted and well designed to make you believe the answers are the real posibilities.

 

I liked it and for me it provides some insight, fiction answers to a science fiction film but they are good plausable answers, some of which clarify what was already obvious.

 

I give them credit and would go with the theories they offer that the enginers on that planet were out to change humanity into another creation only to be infected themselves.

[Paul Spencer]

Well I've finally seen Prometheus on Blu-ray. All movies of course require a suspension of disbelief, this one required plenty. The most disappointing aspect for me was there was absolutely no tension in the film for me. Why? The plot was really such a re-write of the first Alien film that I knew exactly what was coming next. It was easy to work out who the disposable crew members were going to be, who was going to get it in the end, the alien death-fight etc.

Any comparison with the works of Phillip K Dick are misplaced I think, his books worked on a dysphoric existential level and often were extremely funny. Prometheus is OK but in the end, it's a bit meh.

 

I found this movie a little disappointing like many others. I like the sci fi genre, but I think sometimes there is a tendency to fail to connect with audiences on a more human level. Things like character development, relationships and engaging on a drama level are still needed, and leave that sense that something is missing. Sci fi themes, a good score, cinematography and effects are not enough to carry a movie.

 

That doesn't make sense - the Empire had the same lack of technology as the rebels did. You would have thought that the Empire would have made use of any superior technologies to crush the rebel alliance. That they didn't, tells me that that superior technology didn't exist. So, did it disappear between the clone wars and the classic episodes? I think not. I think that the modern movie makers went overboard because of the ability to use digital technologies in the film making process. A movie must look "cool" and not gritty and lived in. This is what made Blade Runner and Alien so great - yes, there was technology in it, but it was lived in, natural, gritty.

Dave

 

It makes perfect sense - they just HAD to use their updated CGI and all that it allowed. It's a real temptation sometimes faced by designers, when they get new tools, to do something because you can rather than because it's needed. They could have been more consistent with the original, but I think they wanted to make the new movies more cool. Personally I prefer it the way they did it, but I think it's a much less authentic and discerning choice.

[peacewise]

Someone mentioned that the planet in Prometheus doesn't have the same designation as the planet in Aliens. Perhaps the engineers have surrounded Earth with the bio weapons on many planets to keep humanity contained.

Deny us expansion options. Just like planting cities on the enemy in Civilisation V.

[valvelover]

Someone mentioned that the planet in Prometheus doesn't have the same designation as the planet in Aliens. Perhaps the engineers have surrounded Earth with the bio weapons on many planets to keep humanity contained.

Deny us expansion options. Just like planting cities on the enemy in Civilisation V.

 

I don't think so.  This is what I think.  The engineers have engineered many planets, many species.  In this instance though, I suspect that they made a decision to destroy humans because we'd become destructive, and they didn't want to risk us spreading to other parts of the galaxy (an analogy for us destroying the planet that we live on, as we are currently doing).  

 

 

I have some thoughts on that...remember the scene where she queries David as to what Weyland said to him?  She grabbed and pushed him against the wall, sign of strength, which i dont think a human female is quite capable off considering David is an andriod... food for thought.

 

Yes, I found that odd too.  Plus, she recovers far too quickly from the hyper sleep.  I also found it interesting that David donned a suit, but that was cos he was aware that he was a synthetic, but did it to make it easier for humans.  Vickers dons it because she thinks she is human (but doesn't really need to), which would make her frantic escape attempt from the soon to crash space ship, ironic.  

 

Some other thoughts:

 

 

I think we'll see some sort of tie in between LV-426 and the engineer that crashed on that planet, and what happens in the sequel to Prometheus.  I don't think that LV-426 was a military base.  It had an emergency beacon to warn others from coming to the planetoid (remember in Alien that Ripley successfully decodes the signal that Ash had tried to deliberately hide).  And the cargo is completely different - in Prometheus we see the genetic modifying goo, the alien at the end is a by product of it, an accidental one.  The Alien eggs on the LV-426 engineer - where did they come from?  Were they the end result of a deliberate genetic modification and intended to be a military weapon, or were they the result of something having gone wrong accidentally like in Prometheus?  Each Alien movie has had an ulterior motive - that the alien(s) are a weapon.  I think the engineer in Alien was transporting the end results of a modification of the alien that was created in Prometheus.

 

Interestingly, in the alternative version of the movie on the Blu ray, there is a cut scene that shows the biologist finding the worms (that ultimately are genetically modified by the black goo and kill the 2 crew members that were trapped due to the silica storm), and we learn that this is the first confirmed life form EVER found by humans outside of Earth.  Interestingly, the modified worm has acid for blood too.  We know that the aliens are adaptive - they adapt to the host (the alien derived from the dog in Alien III as an example) - depending on the host, some things change.  Alien Resurrection, which despite most people hating it, I loved it.  I found its logic derived Queen alien (doesn't need eggs, but can have live births) an example of logical adaptive evolution.  So, I'm thinking that there is some as of yet, unknown mating of the black good modified worm, and the human dna derived alien from the end of prometheus.  Perhaps these are general warnings about genetic modification and dangers of tampering with God's creativity.  Note: I'm not Christian, so I do not believe in God.  

 

I think we'll see some sort of mixing of the goo worms and the alien from the end of Prometheus, so that the alien species adaptively grows.  I also think the engineers will come back to the planet in Prometheus and somehow take advantage of this new adaptive lifeform, with intent to use it as a military weapon (again, another lesson about weapons and the dangers of them turning on you).  

 

Well, sorry for the rambling thoughts guys.  As I said in earlier posts, I really like Prometheus.  Sure, it was predictable and made waste of some talented actors, but in the end, I think it's main raison d'etre was to show the initial birth of the alien.  I can't wait for the sequel.

 

Dave

[hugo_wilco]

Why on earth would they fly to Earth and give every race and civilisation a star map showing how to get to their biochemical warfare sites??????

Perhaps it all has to do with the magic flutes they need to start their faster than light space ships????

[DoggieHowser]

The youtube video earlier does try to address the point about the Star Maps.

 

In one theory: humans are the first step to a new Alien species which the xenomorph uses as a host.

 

In another (which was shown in an earlier trailer/teaser), Shaw shouts out that the star maps are not an invitation but a warning to stay away.

[valvelover]

Why on earth would they fly to Earth and give every race and civilisation a star map showing how to get to their biochemical warfare sites??????

Perhaps it all has to do with the magic flutes they need to start their faster than light space ships????

 

That's a really good question.  I can only think that either a lone engineer, or group of them disagreed with the rest to destroy humanity, so they sent warnings to Earth.  

 

Or, perhaps those star maps were invitations, but they were given to us BEFORE we'd developed into something that the engineers disliked and wanted to destroy?  

 

Dave

[likwidsh0k]

Very interesting read this, might have to watch it again as I missed a lot of this and the religious symbolism myself being anti it in all its forms .. And perhaps goes some way to dismissing as stupid but instead perhaps intentional my teens in a b-grade horror slasher critique.

 

The article link but its ChuckRock's comments that are the interesting part..

 

ohh man i cant believe the amount of people that say they "got" this movie when in fact they didnt...................The main theme from the start of the movie is "Sacrifice" ... The way the weyland corp deliberately send in complete idiots (mercenaries not scientists)while they sit on a lifeboat safe and sound, sacrifice. Nothing can be achieved without it. Its the main premise of the movie as the intro to the film also demonstrates. Earth was to be used as a seeding point for the engineers parasitic biotech. Thats why they created us. The goal is to produce perfect life.We were to be used as hosts. My evidence?? (links below).. look at the sculpture on the wall. Its the deacon protomorph rising from the primordial goo. But look below that to the left and right at the bottom. What do we see, yes two humans or engineers with facehuggers injecting eggs into them. Go and check again if you didnt see it in the movie, its there i can assure you.. Also the biologist mentions that one of the space jockeys bodies they find has had something explode out its chest. Yes they had an outbreak before they got all the cargo on board. We were to be used as the hosts for the perfect lifeform. So our gods created us to be mere cattle, simples! So all your theories about lv 426 are not correct. The derelict on lv426 predates the weapons lab on the moon by many thousands of years or more, thats why he was fossilized. So there ya go, that's actually what Prometheus was about and its link to Alien. If you are in any doubt of anything ive said, watch the movie again. Also listen to the dialog when they are in the pyramid very carefully. Including the part about how the water isnt frozen although its 12 below as its actually nanite goo. The whole place is made of the stuff as liquid nanite fluid appears to be the basis for the engineers technology. Its also how David figures out how to work the holo emitters. Remember "David" has an iq supposedly of 360 or more. He has been given instructions to look out for the bio technologies the company wish to acquire this is the hidden agenda of the weyland corp and the reason they are on the mission in the first place as its certainly not down to cave paintings.The initial team sent in are nothing more than an experiment or sacrifice with David pulling the strings.Why do you think david is running about pushing things and opening doors like a maniac? He wants at least one of them infected and when it doesn't happen first time round through inhalation he's told to "try harder" As is explained later in the movie Vickers "the suit" wants the company and whatever she can salvage from the bio tech they hope to smuggle back. Of course her father wants immortality or the technology to achieve it.So we also see there is a conflict of interests between family members of Weyland corp . As ive said before i cannot find any plots holes within Prometheus. Only that people misunderstood the film.

 

The tomb sculpture with facehuggers
http://i1157.photobucket.com/a...

 

The tombs Mural with an engineer holding down an Alien biomechanoid his hand melded to its ever evolving/Mutating head.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum...

 

David 8 and the Nanites 
http://imageshack.us/f/600/dav...

 

The Black nanite goo and its function
http://i.imgur.com/hm4SP.jpg

 

[ENIGMA]

Phew, and i thought it was just me.

[Guest]

Putting aside the timeline and Alien vs Predator films, I thought this was pretty mediocre to be honest :mellow:

As mentioned earlier, there was very little tension, most of the characters were uninteresting, cliche and flat.

Why do all these movies have to descend in to people running around in the dark gasping eachother's names for 20 minutes?

Was really hoping for more aliens and less of the above.

Also, what was the big fella by the waterfall at the start trying to achieve by drinking whatever that was in the thing?

The little mapping "pups" were cool though.

[Kaynin]

I like the sci fi genre, but I think sometimes there is a tendency to fail to connect with audiences on a more human level. Things like character development, relationships and engaging on a drama level are still needed, and leave that sense that something is missing.

Agreed, which is why, IMHO, Bladerunner is so popular...

Edit: typo

Edited September 6, 2014 by Kaynin

[Zammo]

Agree this could have been so much more, but from what I've read the initial script was altered irrevocably by blow writers part way through production. Usual large studio crap dumbing down what could have been a brilliant script.

The big fella was creating the human race.

[mrbuzzardstubble]

What did that alien that was born at the end of the movie live on,food wise?

Come to think of it,what did the last survivor live on when she took off in that other alien spaceship?

The script was very predictable.You knew those two guys that wandered off would be killed.You knew the crew were going to bumped off,one by one.You knew the female scientist was going to be the last (wo)man standing.Visually good but the same formula as the previous Aliens movies(and pretty well all man vs evil extraterrestrials films)

[gemini07]

Agreed, which is why, IMHO, Bladerunner is so populer...

 

Yes, Bladerunner is something of a sci-fi/futuristic classic, for all the reason you've mentioned. 

 

But, I also think it could have been so much better with a more meaningful and powerful ending and perhaps less vague. Don't ask me what... I just think the scriptwriters needed to do more as it seems someone decided to just end it there - very quickly. I can't help but compare it to other dystopic movies such as Gattaca (less action but more personalised) and Dark City (more action, a little scarier but also somewhat open ended).

[valvelover]

What did that alien that was born at the end of the movie live on,food wise?

Come to think of it,what did the last survivor live on when she took off in that other alien spaceship?

The script was very predictable.You knew those two guys that wandered off would be killed.You knew the crew were going to bumped off,one by one.You knew the female scientist was going to be the last (wo)man standing.Visually good but the same formula as the previous Aliens movies(and pretty well all man vs evil extraterrestrials films)

 

no more predictable than Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 or Alien resurrection were, or any other horror/suspense/sci-fi movie.  I think Prometheus is a brilliant movie that has been badly slagged off for no real valid reasons.  What did you guys expect, the alien or engineer to make everyone nice cuppa teas?

 

Yes, Bladerunner is something of a sci-fi/futuristic classic, for all the reason you've mentioned. 

 

But, I also think it could have been so much better with a more meaningful and powerful ending and perhaps less vague. Don't ask me what... I just think the scriptwriters needed to do more as it seems someone decided to just end it there - very quickly. I can't help but compare it to other dystopic movies such as Gattaca (less action but more personalised) and Dark City (more action, a little scarier but also somewhat open ended).

 

Bladerunner is brilliant, but a completely different type of film.  

 

PS, work is currently underway on a Bladerunner sequel I believe.  

 

Gattaca is OK, but didn't grab me the same way that many rave about it.  

 

Dark City is a BRILLIANT movie, I saw it at the movies many years ago when it was initially released and was enthralled by it.  Amazingly done.  Reminds me to buy it on Blu ray.  Off to JB Hi Fi am I!

[Kaynin]

But, I also think it could have been so much better with a more meaningful and powerful ending and perhaps less vague. Don't ask me what... I just think the scriptwriters needed to do more as it seems someone decided to just end it there - very quickly. I can't help but compare it to other dystopic movies such as Gattaca (less action but more personalised)

 

 

Agreed on both counts. 

 

Bladerunner - the ending is very abrupt, they seem happy to leave it with informing the audience Deckard is a replicant and that's all.  Maybe his realisation of his fate would have been nice...maybe not...

 

Gattaca is a fantatsic movie and I love it.  Certainly very personalised, which draws me in so much more.  I think Prometheus would have been better for me if i could relate to...well...anyone!

[Kaynin]

Dark City is a BRILLIANT movie

 

 

Haven't seen it yet, will have to now, many speak highly of it.  Might have to watch that tomorrow...

[gemini07]

Haven't seen it yet, will have to now, many speak highly of it.  Might have to watch that tomorrow...

 

Spectacular finale, both visually and sonically. I'm sure your system will be up to it... 

[Guest]

no more predictable than Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 or Alien resurrection were, or any other horror/suspense/sci-fi movie. !

I think these days we deserve something a bit more challenging than cookie cutter "who will die next", "only one person survives" and "oh that guy is evil" material.

A prequel to the Alien movies could and should have been a bit more than what this was.

However, as a stand-alone movie it was pretty good.

[Guest]

The big fella was creating the human race.

:mellow: