Hi there,

 

I would like to seek fellow gurus help here. I have been looking around for a Plasma or LCD tv. The primary objective is for watching tv. I came to notice that actaully CRT has the best PQ compare to plasma or LCD!!! :o. Is this true? Is it due to the low signal from SCV & Mediacorp? If not, i probably need to visit my eye doc soon!! ;D Thanks!!!!

CRT has the best APPARENT quality on standard-definition broadcast television and on SCV.

 

Two key reasons for this:

 

1. traditional CRT itself has fairly poor resolving ability i.e. the ability to clearly show fine detail

2. traditional CRT is way smaller, corner-to-corner, than a typical plasma (starting at 37" and more typically 42"), which means the inherently poor quality of the standard-def broadcast TV signal (and the downright lousy over-compressed and artifacted SCV digital cable signal) is disguised by the smaller size of the viewing platform.

 

It's not because CRT is inherently better in some way (other than higher contrast ratios).

 

Cheers,

 

- V.

 

CRT is much better than LCD and Plasma TV:

 

- Picture Quality: Much better (Real True colours etc.)

 

- Response time: Much better (10 times faster)

 

- Contrast/Brightness: Much better.

 

- Viewing Angle: Much better

 

- Resolution: No problem to display HDTV clearly

 

- Deal Pixel: Never

 

- Comfortablity: Better (less eye pain)

 

- Housing: Much better (CRT face is stronger and easy to clean)

 

Watch HDTV or SDTV, CRT is better than LCD/ Plasma TV.

 

 

Thin CRT will replace Fat CRT for TV size less than 40" and

 

Super Thin "CRT" (SED) will take over 40" and above

 

 

Locally, so far has only come across a samsung slim CRT TV.  Any other models that are already available in SG?

Actually, the resolution of most CRT TVs is not 1080i. Unlike native res displays like plasma and LCDs which can offer true 720p or 1080p native, CRTs usually only have a resolution of 540 lines and downsample 1080i or 720p to this resolution

 

Other than that, I'd say it is better for TV watching because of the lower resolution of the source, the better contrast.

 

 

Thanks Varun & Chualcsg,

 

Thank goodness!!! Nothing wrong with my eyes!! ;D No need to spend money on eye doctor!!! I did saw a Samsung slim CRT TV at Best in Taka. Don't know the model though... I thought the PQ & colour was pretty good...But price wise...not very interesting.... :-[

Maybe 50% of CRT support 1080i, but

 

Current LCD TV/Plasma also not really HDTV because no HDTV tuners inside.

 

So better wait for MDA & MediaCorp  to release more detail on HDTV

 

 

Actually, the resolution of most CRT TVs is not 1080i. Unlike native res displays like plasma and LCDs which can offer true 720p or 1080p native, CRTs usually only have a resolution of 540 lines and downsample 1080i or 720p to this resolution

 

Other than that, I'd say it is better for TV watching because of the lower resolution of the source, the better contrast.

 

 

 

So better wait for MDA & MediaCorp  to release more detail on HDTV

 

 

What more detail are you waiting for? Their site is very clear: Singapore HDTV broadcast will be in 1080i.

 

Regards,

 

- V.

 

CRT is much better than LCD and Plasma TV:

 

- Resolution: No problem to display HDTV clearly

 

 

Show me ONE CRT that can DISPLAY 1080p. The CRTs you see in the stores with the 1080 logo on them? That's what they can ACCEPT as input, not what they can DISPLAY. Until then, the statement above is incorrect.

 

Super Thin CRT (SED) will take over 40" and above[/color]

 

 

To call SED based technology "CRT" is stretching definitions...

 

- V.

 

What more detail are you waiting for? Their site is very clear: Singapore HDTV broadcast will be in 1080i.

 

Regards,

 

- V.

 

 

As for me, I am not exactly sure why chua is so hung up on MediaCorpse to get HDTV :) It's not like seeing extra definition on PCK's mole is gonna be a major draw for me.

 

Most of my friends are on the HD-ready bandwagon because we are already getting HD sources today.. from game consoles, in particular.. augmented by EVD, and even upscaled DVDs with decent chipsets. BluRay/HD-DVD isn't too far off. You can already order them...

 

http://www.dvdsoon.com/search-results-v2.xml?query-id=http://www.dvdsoon.com/queries/exact-field&field=series&value=15&customer-query=HD-DVD&search-results=true

 

http://www.dvdsoon.com/search-results-v2.xml?query-id=http://www.dvdsoon.com/queries/exact-field&field=series&value=14&customer-query=Blu-ray&search-results=true

 

And as for the 1080i, it is cos of your postulation that CRTs can have any resolution. Theoretically possible.. but only on high end CRT PC monitors. Consumer grade CRT TVs are still limited to around 540 lines of resolution.. a fact freely admitted by a local Samsung rep in a local gaming forum.

 

 

We want detail (eg H.264) so that TV makers can bring in real HDTV (with HDTV tuner) as soon as possible.

 

HDTV is 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

 

HDTV set do not need to support 1080p

 

 

 

Few points, to answer different posts:

 

We have one Sony HDTV  CRT in office for tests purposes, the price is equivalent to plasma prices (for a much smaller screen size).

 

SED is not exactly super slim CRT, it is a completely different technology

 

The Samsumg Slim CRT does not exactly have a good picture quality: having such a short tubes brings a lot of beam control,  and mask alignement issues.

 

Hi there,

 

I would like to seek fellow gurus help here. I have been looking around for a Plasma or LCD tv. The primary objective is for watching tv. I came to notice that actaully CRT has the best PQ compare to plasma or LCD!!! :o. Is this true? Is it due to the low signal from SCV & Mediacorp? If not, i probably need to visit my eye doc soon!! ;D Thanks!!!!

 

Here's another take on your question.

It's not so much the issue of crt being superior to lcd/plasma, it's a question of lower Return On Investment (lower value-for-money) if you buy the relatively more expensive lcd/plasma devices to watch local tv on, which is currently 4:3 (almost square) and of low resolution. A high definition large screen 100Hz 4:3 crt tv (34") can be bought for around $2+k, and you can watch tv all day long on it without worrying about obsolescence. The crt tv is optimised for local sd content, and also has the native advantages of crt such as solid contrast ratio, low lag, etc.

 

With a square lcd tv, you're paying more than crt pricing for slightly less impressive SD images. With a widescreen lcd tv, you're underutilising the extra screen width if you retain the 4:3 ratio on it. If you stretch or crop the 4:3 tv image to use up more of the screen, you're distorting the image and/or casting away image information offscreen. If you buy a plasma (only available in widescreen and large sizes) you're paying even more for features that 4:3 SD tv will not make full use of, and worse, you have to contend with screen burn-in. Playing sd material on any natively high res device requires scaling, so the deterioration of the sd tv image may also be due to a sub-standard scaler. The cheaper the lcd/plasma tv you buy, the worse the tv quality may appear to your eyes.

 

Furthermore, both lcd/plasma have narrower viewing angles than crt although they have improved over the years. If you play a lot of 4:3 fast-action console games, you may also need to spend more to get lcd tvs that have a very fast refresh rate (<8ms) or else you will see strobing. Finally, prices of big and good quality crt tvs have stabilised, while prices of lcds/plasma continue to plunge and cause high depreciation to your investment. And we're not even talking about obsolesence yet, caused by the mercurial format war (blu-ray and hd-dvd), drm confusion (hdcp, drm, downsampling-enable ICT flag, etc).

 

The above factors are not so relevant or critical if you buy lcd/plasma for watching widescreen material more than 50% of the time, but if SD tv is the main purpose, then the good old high quality crt tv still has a lot of relevance today. And local programming in hdtv still seems unappetizing and a distant reality judging by estimated timelines.

 

 

P.S.  If money is not an issue, and you really like the high tech look of lcd/plasma tvs, and the slimness really gives you more placement options, heck, no argument for CRT TVs can sway a person from getting the flat panel tvs!

 

Well summarised, Hardy.  :)

Here's another take on your question.

 

 

The best answer I've ready ANYWHERE on the subject. Very well put, Hardy.

 

- V.

 

 

I am sorry but I beg to differ.

 

I am sorry because, as I have already said, I am currently using the SCV SmartTV trial, so I have access to a differrent and expensive setup-box.

 

All I can tell you is that with the SmartTV setup-box plugged via component into the PDP-436 the picture is very very watchable (I don't watch soccer, and even for soccer, blocks in the feed will be apparent the same on CRT and flat display)

 

At first I was considering buying a new CRT (mine was dying), but looking at the 2k+ price, I decided it was not worth it: if i bought it would be plasma or lcd.

 

The only regret I have is not having been able to wait a bit more for prices to fall down further on non-1080p displays.

 

I would not buy a CRT today for good quality (except for some Sony, all the available ones here are rather lousy): I know that professional CRTs are better, but at prices that we do not talk about here. Consummer prices are also a factor of trends and investments: nowadays CRTs are not competeing for the high-end range, they are expensive to stock up, heavy take more volume => higher prices.

  I would consider a cheap CRTs though (21") anyday compared to those lousy LCD TVs (the < 26" types that cost a bomb).

 

As for viewing angles, I cannot understand people who are complaining about plasma viewing angle: they need to rearrange their seating arrangement: at the angles they are watching they are viewing with geometric deformation anyway.

 

As for investment value: well what can I say: CRTs/Plasma/LCD are consumer items: they have no investment value at all anyway. Yes Plasma prices are dropping fast, but if you buy a S$2500 CRT today, you can be sure that you will not be able to sell it for more than S$900 even only in 3 months (nobody will buy a 2nd hand CRT except dirt cheap in front of flat panel competition).

 

So buy for your eyes, not for your portfolio.

 

 

Addendum: if you want to watch *only* mediacrap / scv and absolutely no dvd. no gaming then by all means get a 29" TV (no need to get a 32" inch anyway)

 

 

I am sorry but I beg to differ.

 

 

Actually...

 

Addendum: if you want to watch *only* mediacrap / scv and absolutely no dvd. no gaming then by all means get a 29" TV (no need to get a 32" inch anyway)

 

 

... since your addendum is what Hardy was expressing anyway, how do you differ?  ;)

 

My SCV DVR box was delivered Saturday morning. Will plug into the soon-to-be-purchased LCD when I move into my new apartment early next month. I'm looking forward to agreeing with you. :-)

 

- V.

 

 

CRT is much better than LCD and Plasma TV:

 

sorry this is really over the top.  I completely disagree.

 

- Picture Quality: Much better (Real 16.7 millions of colours etc.)

CRT has no numbers of colors. It's a function of the analogue response of its phosper, which is not linear.  And the gamma is not consistent.  You do not get the same intensity of red at every corner of the display.  A digital, on the other hand, is completely uniform and linear.  For color uniformity, no way a CRT can match a digital.  I dun think the argument of "numbers of colors" is relevant.

 

- Response time: Much better (10 times faster)

Unless you are using it for gaming, the response time for a TV useage is sufficient for more recent digital TVs.

 

- Contrast/Brightness: Much better.

Now this point is valid. CRT has a better dymanic contrast range, largely due to its ability to achieve black.  But with new panels catching up, this advangage is no longer siginifant.  On the other hand, the color balance of a CRT is floating, you dun always get the same grayscale range between scenes. Digitals, although being limited in the range, are always consistant.

 

- Resolution: No problem to display HDTV clearly

I dun know how to read this statement.  I dun know of any CRT that does 1080p.  If you mean any "HDTV compatible" CRT can display "HDTV" signal (be it 720p, 1080i/p), then it really missed the point.  The purpose is not to just display it "clearly".  It must be "completely", i.e. all the picture info must be displayed and not lost.  I have a 9" 256 line console for my instrumentation monitor that can actually show a DVD on it, so do I call it "display DVD clearly" ? Yes of course but that does not mean it has no problem on resolution.

 

- Comfortablity: Better (less eye pain)

This should be the complete opposite.  CRTs are interlaced display with high directive lighting, it causes more eye pain. Digitals are progressive display with less directional lighting, it's much more comfortable.  Personally I think plasmas are the best, LCDs are still a bit glaring because of the backlight. CRTs are definitely glaring.

 

Watch HDTV or SDTV, CRT is better than LCD/ Plasma TV.

 

Have u seen a HDTV on both CRT and a plasma ?

 

Super Thin CRT (SED) will take over 40" and above

I agreed with the other forumer, linking SED to CRT is really too far fetched.

As for investment value: well what can I say: CRTs/Plasma/LCD are consumer items: they have no investment value at all anyway.

 

So buy for your eyes, not for your portfolio.

 

I really like your lines !  :)

Locally, so far has only come across a samsung slim CRT TV.  Any other models that are already available in SG?

 

seen a LG slim crt tv at mustafa. not sure about price/model though.

Interesting similar live thread at avforums (the brit site):

 

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328593

 

- V.

 

I think i like to watch fat woman on the 32" samsung lcd lor!! ;D ;D

 

 

As for viewing angles, I cannot understand people who are complaining about plasma viewing angle: they need to rearrange their seating arrangement: at the angles they are watching they are viewing with geometric deformation anyway.

 

As for investment value: well what can I say: CRTs/Plasma/LCD are consumer items: they have no investment value at all anyway. Yes Plasma prices are dropping fast, but if you buy a S$2500 CRT today, you can be sure that you will not be able to sell it for more than S$900 even only in 3 months (nobody will buy a 2nd hand CRT except dirt cheap in front of flat panel competition).

 

 

Sorry for getting into the semantics, but the modern day usage of the word "invest" is not necessarily to gain profit only, but "to spend money on", presumably referring to intangible, non-monetary benefits from that spending:

 

invest // v.

1 tr. (often foll. by in) apply or use (money), esp. for profit.

2 intr. (often foll. by in) devote (time, effort, etc.) to an enterprise.

3 intr. (foll. by in) a put money for profit (into stocks etc.). b colloq. buy (something useful) (invested in a new car).

4 tr. a (foll. by with) provide, endue, or credit (a person or thing with qualities, insignia, or rank). b (foll. by in) attribute or entrust (qualities or feelings to a person or thing).

 

As for viewing angles, very much depends on the limitations set by interior design, available space, personal preference, viewing angle preference, etc. If buying an expensive plasma tv just for low-res tv viewing still poses concomitant placement restrictions vis-a-vis viewing angles, then it's a further minus point for a shrewd consumer.

The best answer I've ready ANYWHERE on the subject. Very well put, Hardy.

 

Aww shucks, thanks!   :D

 

Wrote this just to allay braveheart's doubts and help him to get yet another perspective.

If tv viewing is going to constitute a huge percentage of usage, then crt is a viable choice, regardless of whether one goes for a low end tv, a sony 38" WEGA widescreen crt or a 1080i-compatible 4:3 digital crt tv. The only factor that seems to override logic and makes people buy with their hearts rather than with value in mind is form (aesthetics) over function.

 

Generally, women don't care much about the technicalities; aesthetics come first. So the slimness and high tech look of a flat panel tv leads them to coax their husbands or family to buy into the technology. Guys are also not immune to this hehe. And the electronic superstores keep pumping hd demo videos into lcds/plasmas instead of tv broadcasts... it sure leads most laymen to assume that they will get the same visual quality when watching normal sd tv!

 

Again, this whole thread is about using various display technologies to watch *mostly* standard definition tv. Does not apply to users in countries where hdtv is readily accessible.