Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: Actually yes that's exactly what I do right now. I quite enjoy the challenge... I accept that you have no personal experience with modern equipment, digital recordings and other things that the rest of us enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: I accept that you have no personal experience with modern equipment, digital recordings and other things that the rest of us enjoy. I have plenty of experience with digital recordings, and modern equipment I'm just not interested in it at the moment. You would also have to accept that there is enough expensive toys sitting on that desk that I could build a respectable modern hifi system with. I simply prefer things the way they are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: Also and FWIW: My preference is for fully discrete, zero global NFB topologies. That said, modern OP amps are very good indeed. My preference is Great Sound....couldn't give a rats about the technology involved...within reason... Tase Edited July 25, 2017 by Tasebass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) My preference right now is purely nostalgic factors. Lord knows I could probably get rid of all of that kit on that desk for some good coin. Not particularly interested in doing that at the moment... Go price yourself a set of LS3/5a speakers at the going rate and get back to me, then factor in the price of a working vintage valve amplifier of the right period. I'm not even remotely interested in this game anymore though. Edited July 25, 2017 by Roumelio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Gale Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Okay my email notifications box just exploded on this thread , " What happened " lol. No need being facetious Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fez Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm listening to one of my vfets right now..Well in fact I'm listening to 8 of them..I can literally hear the drain current and the gate voltage -- just sublime -- aint nothing like it I say!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 It's a pretty generic name for a bunch of Sony amplifiers don't ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simonon Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I agree that they sound nice when working but just make sure all of the required mods have been done. Sony used a bunch of double diodes that failed and took out the vfet output devices. I also saw this occur due to dryjoints and silver migrated driver transistors. The original vfet devices were also a complimentary pair and should ideally be replaced as such. Most of the power supply capacitors and ones in the preamps have now seen better days as they were never the best quality. Sony could never make a good electrolytic or tantalum capacitor. I spent weeks recapping Sony broadcast cameras in the 90s due to this. Dc bias and quiescent currents on vfet amps must be set to manufacturers spec AND periodically checked. I have also seen noisy intermittent adjustment pots given they are 40 years old. Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 hours ago, willio747 said: If you compared for example a well regarded, sought after, quality made statement piece that cost $4000 from the golden-era you'd need to spend twice that amount as a minimum in most cases nowadays to get a modern piece built in a similarly quality fashion. More qualified people have spoken to this but may I add the the trickle down effect also plays a part. The technology that made the "golden era" piece what it was (what was worth transferring) often finds itself in components costing far less. I can speak of comparisons between the $4000 "golden era" piece and its comparative (twice the amount) $8000 piece but the magic lies in the current $4000 piece. Adjusted for inflation today's $4000 piece often is far beyond its 1980 counterpart. 7 hours ago, willio747 said: Companies were pushing boundaries and investing lots of money and time into R&D and manufacture of parts during the late 60-early 80's, for the most part they weren't even breaking even from sales. It'd be downright insane for any company/manufacturer to follow the practices and standards imposed from the hey-day's to things nowadays, And they don't have to to make a comparable product. the R&D is done and paid for and often now public domain. 7 hours ago, willio747 said: Things were hand-tested and made in specified quantities back then, while most things are nowadays are mass-produced garbage. Mass production is a catch-cry for poor quality but it does not necessarily guarantee it. 7 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: * Semiconductors were MUCH more expensive back then. In 1968, the output devices used in the Model 18 were around $30.00 ~ $40.00 each (in 1968 Dollars). Today, superior devices are available for less than $10.00. * Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) were all hand assembled back then. Machine assembly has reduced costs and improved reliability. 3 hours ago, Simonon said: To be honest late model gear is built better has higher tolerance components and better design. Bang for buck due to cheaper manufacturing, automation and cheaper components a new product is best. Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Roumelio. said: Actually yes that's exactly what I do right now. I quite enjoy the challenge... Not a single component manufactured in the 1980s in sight. Headphones aside of course. Is this an actually picture of where your speakers are located for listening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) It's currently set up for near field listening since I don't exactly have the weight of power coming out of that amplifier. So yeah.... Anyhow, considering that those speakers are designed for nearfield listening that's about how they're supposed to be set up. Edited July 25, 2017 by Roumelio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerglide Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 55 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: I'm not even remotely interested in this game anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I am genuinely not interested in what people think or impressing people with expensive gear. I'm on enough other forums with new gear whores with my other interests (cameras) I eventually think somethings not right if someone cares more about brand names or new gear or what it looks like as opposed to the rest and I am more than happy to do my own thing at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm genuinely not interested in bacons. Mmmm bacons....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Meh, old or new, it doesn't matter to me, as long as it sounds good to me and works with my other stuff. I inherited a new volume knob for my amp after trying a few for another amp, I was pretty chuffed with it. I would post a pic but that might be stretching it. @Happy OMG! the plural butchery continues, I thought it stopped at vinyls *sigh* Poor Bacon, butchered a second time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Whadya mean about them vinyls whats wrong you mean to say i should call gears gear too? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 48 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: It's currently set up for near field listening since I don't exactly have the weight of power coming out of that amplifier. So yeah.... Anyhow, considering that those speakers are designed for nearfield listening that's about how they're supposed to be set up. You are quite blunt with your opinions so I will reciprocate. I can not imagine in any situation with any equipment where speakers set up the way they are in your photo would be capable of performing at anywhere near their optimum. To lecture people about the virtues of vintage vs new or in fact any equipment when your "reference" is set up so (and I am not criticising or condemning your equipment here) is quite presumptuous. And that actually isn't all that blunt... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, crisis said: You are quite blunt with your opinions so I will reciprocate. I can not imagine in any situation with any equipment where speakers set up the way they are in your photo would be capable of performing at anywhere near their optimum. To lecture people about the virtues of vintage vs new or in fact any equipment when your "reference" is set up so (and I am not criticising or condemning your equipment here) is quite presumptuous. And that actually isn't all that blunt... Its not rocket science. I do need a new desk of course. As to those speakers if they are good enough for the BBC and good enough to remain in continuous production for over 30 years they're good enough for me. Not that I care for discussions about these kinds of things these days, but you should really look them up and what they're made for before you go casting stones. Edited July 25, 2017 by Roumelio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: Its not rocket science. I do need a new desk of course. No, its not "rocket science". Its acoustics. Your speakers are too close together to attempt any kind of imaging. One enclosure is leaning against a wall and not fully supported likely compromising bass output and quality. It also has a lamp on it that could rattle. One enclosure has its baffle at 45 degrees to a window, a most undesirable surface and definitely not one you would want that close to a speaker. Both enclosures are virtually against a wall meaning far from optimum bass reproduction unless they were specifically designed to be located so and one is in a corner which is pretty much the worst possible position for everything. You need to have a look at speaker placement and room design before you worry too much more about cheap Op amps.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simonon Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 This is the most entertainment I have had on stereonet for a while. Currently listening to some 1920s swing on this restored Atwater Kent TRF radio via my in house AM transmitter streaming via a raspberry pi. Definately not audiophile but enjoyable. The radio even features a tube push/ pull output stage and was considered high fidelity in its day. It was also one of the first " light socket" powered radios. They were even set up in dance halls due to the superior moving coil speaker and loud volume level. Now that is what one would class as vintage. I would love to see some pictures of members coveted vintage gear to get this thread back on track. There must be some classic stuff out there to make me envious. The other picture is a restored 1929 RCA model 60 superhet radio which sold for the equivalent of $8000 in todays money.Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) The separation is actually far more than what you would assume in a photo. The cabinet is actually fully supported hmm... Nit picks. Nit picks... Not about the bass mate either. These are monitors... Not fully sick doof doof bangers. Actually you should look at the frequency response curve annndd... there no where near the window. Aside from which... I'm now wasting my time because you're digging yourself a nice hole to China. It's easy to see things in optical illusions. Edited July 25, 2017 by Roumelio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Roumelio. said: The separation is actually far more than what you would assume in a photo. The cabinet is actually fully supported hmm... Nit picks. Nit picks... Not about the bass mate either. These are monitors... Not fully sick doof doof bangers. Actually you should look at the frequency response curve. Aside from which... I'm now wasting my time because you're digging yourself a nice hole to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, crisis said: So don't get me wrong, at no point did I tell anyone else in this thread what to do, or how to run their own systems. I think you will find at no point did I even suggest anything of the sort. I agree things aren't optimal at the moment buddy. But hey, lets just talk cod $hit and pretend like we're legends in our own lunchboxes. I agree... Lets not factor in that just sometimes people don't live in the optimal conditions to make an environment work for them. This is exactly why I don't spend my time associating with most people in these kinds of hobbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisis Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: So don't get me wrong, at no point did I tell anyone else in this thread what to do, or how to run their own systems. I think you will find at no point did I even suggest anything of the sort. I agree things aren't optimal at the moment buddy. But hey, lets just talk cod $hit and pretend like we're legends in our own lunchboxes. I agree... Lets not factor in that just sometimes people don't live in the optimal conditions to make an environment work for them. This is exactly why I don't spend my time associating with most people in these kinds of hobbies. No problem. My set up in my room is likewise compromised. I don't have a purpose built room nor am I likely to have one. But the cheapest improvement you can make for your system is simply moving your equipment to the best place available and setting it up according to basic acoustic rules. The "sweet spot" diagram you posted is a great start. Have the two speakers equal distance from your listening position on equal axis. Try to pull them out a bit from the walls and ideally try to find some stands. I made some for my stand mount speakers back in the day. If you cant and they need to be on your table try some spikes between them and the table surface. As far as the window goes you have blinds so I would have them closed when listening. Ultimately none of this matters if you are happy with the sound however you have come across quite strongly in your opinions about the "quality" of vintage vs new equipment and I have to say it is difficult to reconcile your views given the way you have your system set up which despite your limitations would not give you a great frame of reference. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 You would be surprised at how decent it sounds and I'm not even really trying at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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