@HumanMedia

I suggest:

 

1. replace telstra router with Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP (or MicroTik equivalent)

 

2. Reconfig telstra router or the  repeater as wifi access point, or get an access point (eg. TP link are lowish cost).

 

3. Run fibre from EdgeRouter to ER.

 

4. Put LPS on Edgerouter (ideally power conditioner too).

 

Afterdark audio has an 'audiophile' SFP.  I use them but am yet to compare to the equivalent stock one.

 

If you don't use a router with SFP, a Sonore OM is not necessary but likely better than IT media converters.

 

BTW, try removing all from Side A that is not essential - connect them to router instead.

Edited October 26, 20205 yr by dbastin
auto correct typos fixed

8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

 

Also I understand that different SFP modules have different sound quality. Are the Sonore ones the best or are there better alternatives, like the https://planetechusa.com/product/mgb-tlx-mini-gbic-lx-module-20km/

 

I am running these Planetech SFPs in both my Edgerouter to OM and OM to Etherregen A-side paths.   I found them to produce a less closed in sound than the Tp-Link SFPs I originally purchased from Sonore, consistent with what I had read about others’ experiences.  It would be interesting to compare the Planettech SFPs with the audiophile ones @dbastin is using.  

26 minutes ago, RussB said:

I am running these Planetech SFPs in both my Edgerouter to OM and OM to Etherregen A-side paths.   I found them to produce a less closed in sound than the Tp-Link SFPs I originally purchased from Sonore, consistent with what I had read about others’ experiences.  It would be interesting to compare the Planettech SFPs with the audiophile ones @dbastin is using.  

Ahh huge thanks RussB!

Yes those particular SFPs were recommended by the guy who designs the Taiko Servers who compared a few

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Where did you get yours? Locally or from Planettech?

And what are your thoughts on my situation and if you think there is payoff in going optical for the first leg?

 

8 hours ago, dbastin said:

Afterdark audio has an 'audiophile' SFP.  I use them but am yet to compare to the equivalent stock one.

 

Afterdark Audio has two Cisco CN8ID42AAA transciever modules (USD$65ea new, around a quarter of that s/h), some Commscope fibre LC-to-LC (ooooo $30 if you're unlucky) and some EMI shielding tape on bits of the transcievers (don't tell Cisco, and it's priceless). For this (consdiering they'd be purchasing wholesale and the above are retail prices) they charge a decent margin and call it 'audiophile'?

 

Don't get me wrong - it's a nice transciever module.

FYI I just noticed an new Sonore opticalModule Deluxe on their site, it appears it adds support for 100 speed networks but that appears to the the only change, rest of the specs are the same save being in a larger box. EtherRegen is locked to 1000 on the SFP so it wont benefit, unless there are other performance optimisations that haven't been mentioned...

 

http://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

41 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

FYI I just noticed an new Sonore opticalModule Deluxe on their site, it appears it adds support for 100 speed networks but that appears to the the only change, rest of the specs are the same save being in a larger box. EtherRegen is locked to 1000 on the SFP so it wont benefit, unless there are other performance optimisations that haven't been mentioned...

 

http://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

Finally they released the 100 speed support version, their original opticalRendu only supports 1000 speed and this limited themselves to work with many network streamers which have 100 ethernet port. I contacted Sonore to inquire about 100 speed support and was advised to wait for new version of OM, it is about 2 months ago and I decided to go for Etherregen 

 

I don’t think any sonic difference tbh but it is a bit more expensive than original OM.
 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

Where did you get yours? Locally or from Planettech?

And what are your thoughts on my situation and if you think there is payoff in going optical for the first leg?

I initially tried to source them locally from businesses that import from Planetech but this was unsuccessful.  I ended up buying directly from Planetech and using Shopmate to ship to me in Australia.

 

Dont forget you will need a psu for the OM. A good quality linear one made a difference in my system.   So the overall cost of this upgrade can add up. You will need to use a fibre cable to suit the Planetech SFP which is not compatible with fibre sold by Sonore for the TP-Link SFP.  But otherwise, to answer your earlier question, yes it is that simple.  
 

I am using optical to prevent electrical noise from server and router passing downstream.  Not sure if it would make a difference in your case in link from Etherregen to your wireless repeater.   I’d recommend trying fibre in that location if you can before buying.  Is it possible to put a lpsu on your repeater or does it need to plug straight into AC outlet?

 

 

Edited October 18, 20205 yr by RussB

1 hour ago, RussB said:

I initially tried to source them locally from businesses that import from Planetech but this was unsuccessful.  I ended up buying directly from Planetech and using Shopmate to ship to me in Australia.

 

Dont forget you will need a psu for the OM. A good quality linear one made a difference in my system.   So the overall cost of this upgrade can add up. You will need to use a fibre cable to suit the Planetech SFP which is not compatible with fibre sold by Sonore for the TP-Link SFP.  But otherwise, to answer your earlier question, yes it is that simple.  
 

I am using optical to prevent electrical noise from server and router passing downstream.  Not sure if it would make a difference in your case in link from Etherregen to your wireless repeater.   I’d recommend trying fibre in that location if you can before buying.  Is it possible to put a lpsu on your repeater or does it need to plug straight into AC outlet?

 

 

Huge thanks for this. I will go this route as well. What is the type of cable needed for the PlanetTech, did you source it from them as well?

 

Wireless repeater already has a 12V Linear supply on it. Plus I have a couple of 5V linear supplies free so the CIAudio one will likely work well with the OM.  I wonder if this OM Deluxe has any further optimisations over the standard unit. Off to the SonicOrbitor forum to see if anything is mentioned...

1 hour ago, HumanMedia said:

Huge thanks for this. I will go this route as well. What is the type of cable needed for the PlanetTech, did you source it from them as well?

 

Wireless repeater already has a 12V Linear supply on it. Plus I have a couple of 5V linear supplies free so the CIAudio one will likely work well with the OM.  I wonder if this OM Deluxe has any further optimisations over the standard unit. Off to the SonicOrbitor forum to see if anything is mentioned...

Good stuff re psus. 

 

I am using the fibre cable below from fs.com who ship locally and seem to offer very good service.  I've read reports of fibre brand and quality making a difference to sound quality, but haven't researched this yet.  However, I gather it is less critical than the choice of SFP, associated media converter device and psu.  The bend insensitive one below seemed to be the better of the two compatible offerings from fs.com, but I don't really know if it would make a difference over the other fs offering.  Both are cheap anyway.

LC-LC UPC OS2 Single Mode BIF Fibre Patch Lead, 0.12dB IL, Duplex 1m #68294

 

On 19/10/2020 at 11:11 AM, RussB said:

Good stuff re psus. 

 

I am using the fibre cable below from fs.com who ship locally and seem to offer very good service.  I've read reports of fibre brand and quality making a difference to sound quality, but haven't researched this yet.  However, I gather it is less critical than the choice of SFP, associated media converter device and psu.  The bend insensitive one below seemed to be the better of the two compatible offerings from fs.com, but I don't really know if it would make a difference over the other fs offering.  Both are cheap anyway.

LC-LC UPC OS2 Single Mode BIF Fibre Patch Lead, 0.12dB IL, Duplex 1m #68294

 

 

OpticalModule ordered.

PlanetTech SFPs ordered (I dearly hope they are the correct ones. - what part number are yours?)

Will order this cable too.

 

I noticed that the PlanetTech are rated for 20kms, will I need attenuators or similar? No chance of burning out the SFP?

 

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.

4 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.

Too late, you have jumped into the rabbit hole!  ? 

32 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Too late, you have jumped into the rabbit hole!  ? 

Not helping Snoop Dog ?

Here's some helpful tips I got from Ubiquiti community and Support pages to get EdgeRouter up and running.  It probably took me about 15-30 minutes and I am a novice.

 

 

Basic setup guide can be found here

Crosstalk Solutions tutorial videos can be found here

 

Access the router

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001016814-EdgeRouter-How-to-Access-the-EdgeRouter

 

Run the Basic Wizard 

 

Most NBN services are DHCP based where no credentials are required for authority.

DHCP is the most common and is the default setup.

Connect your Edgerouter and set up the WAN as a DHCP connection.

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204952254-EdgeRouter-DHCP-Server

 

It will be necessary to take the brave step of removing your existing router and repacing it with the EdgeRouter.

 

I also followed this, and other links it provided.

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002531728-EdgeRouter-Beginners-Guide-to-EdgeRouter

 

These may also be useful

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/205146110-EdgeRouter-How-to-Upgrade-the-EdgeOS-Firmware

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/217990978-EdgeRouter-Configure-an-EdgeRouter-as-a-Layer-2-Switch

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204976244-EdgeRouter-Ubiquiti-Device-Discovery

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016435194-Intro-to-Networking-Fiber-Optic-Cable-and-Transceiver-Types

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204959574-EdgeRouter-SFP-SFP-and-DAC-Compatibility-List

 

I hope this helps.

Edited October 22, 20205 yr by dbastin
Fixed weird formatting

Thank you Saint Dbastin!

 

This really helps. I was a hairs breadth away from going the Ubiquiti route and this is invaluable to those that do. I wish there were a similar collection of knowledge links for the Sonore OpticalModule. There was a discussion forum at AS for it, but that has all been locked to push people over to the dedicated SonicOrbitor forums, which hasn’t really taken off and there is still very little there. The dedicated EtherRegen forum at AS has a smattering of OpticalModule information, but no index to it all as you have just provided.

 

 

Apparently this SFP is well regarded too ...

Startech SFP1000ZXST 1550nm/80km transceivers

 

Perhaps contribute your experirnces here ...

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 20205 yr by dbastin

Hey everyone 

 

I’m listing my SOTM dCBL-CAT7 if anyone is interested? It’s expensive but top end. PM if keen. 

On 22/10/2020 at 2:41 PM, HumanMedia said:

 

OpticalModule ordered.

PlanetTech SFPs ordered (I dearly hope they are the correct ones. - what part number are yours?)

Will order this cable too.

 

I noticed that the PlanetTech are rated for 20kms, will I need attenuators or similar? No chance of burning out the SFP?

 

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.

Nice work!  The link you had to Planetech SFPs is correct.  Part number MGB-TLX(V2).  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.  I haven’t had any issues without one.  Did you suss any more about differences between the versions of the OM?

10 hours ago, RussB said:

Nice work!  The link you had to Planetech SFPs is correct.  Part number MGB-TLX(V2).  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.  I haven’t had any issues without one.  Did you suss any more about differences between the versions of the OM?

Phew about the SFPs.

 

I did ask about the opticalModule Deluxe at the SonicOrbiter forum and all Jesus from Sonore said is that they are very similar but the deluxe has a better circuit board layout.

This is necessary for having all connectors on one side, BUT what I do know about John Swenson is that he always optimises the circuit layouts for lower noise, so I guess that will be a spin-off. Plus it will undoubtedly run a little cooler. These are both assumptions on my part, although it’s a good bet that this will be correct. The new flow control is only needed because it supports 100/1000 and is not needed on the non-deluxe.

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 20205 yr by HumanMedia

EtherRegen vibration control, what do people use? Especially anything that made an obvious difference.?

 

I was just catching up on the AS EtherRegen thread where John Swenson talks about his vibration control rig. He asserts that timing crystals are sensitive to very low frequency movement, like tectonic oscillations which happen more during the day as the sun moves across the earths surface.

 

As a default I put most components on Herbies elastomer feet, which deal with medium and higher frequency vibrations but not low frequency. Low frequency oscillations are better dealt with by those ball/cup type feet or platforms.

 

What do others use on the EtherRegen that they found have a noticeable effect?

Edited October 23, 20205 yr by HumanMedia

10 hours ago, RussB said:

  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.

Hells, after reading the fibre discussion that Saint Dbastin linked to above, I’m paranoid again and that I (we) will benefit from attenuators to avoid early burnout and possible improvements in audio quality.

 

More research needed on the sensitivity of the PlanetTech SFPs...

Edited October 23, 20205 yr by HumanMedia

50 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

I’m paranoid again and that I (we) will benefit from attenuators to avoid early burnout

There is a calculation based on values ...

- transmit optical power

- receiving overload

- receiving sensitivity

 

It puzzled me ...so I simply asked fs.com for advice based on equivalent SFPs they sell.  They were quite helpful.  I will get my fibre from them.

Question to anyone using the EtherRegen with ethernet only, and with only source on the A side, no other devices.

 

Has anyone tried reversing the connection, so an ethernet source on the B side going to a single connected end point on the A Side?

 

The same arrangement as when you have an optical connection, but with Ethernet.

 

For anyone who has tried it, did it sound any better? Or worse?

13 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Question to anyone using the EtherRegen with ethernet only, and with only source on the A side, no other devices.

 

Has anyone tried reversing the connection, so an ethernet source on the B side going to a single connected end point on the A Side?

 

The same arrangement as when you have an optical connection, but with Ethernet.

 

For anyone who has tried it, did it sound any better? Or worse?

I started with A to B

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/298077-uptone-audio-etherregen-owners-discussion-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4432839

And then switched to B to A with a slight improvement

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/298077-uptone-audio-etherregen-owners-discussion-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4437926

 

I now use optical into ER which then feed a NUC into Kii Three via USB

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/298077-uptone-audio-etherregen-owners-discussion-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4552318

 

Each change gave a small improvement, but not as much as adding the ER in the first place.  For those who are wondering, it is not necessary to go beyond the ER and it can quickly become a rabbit warren (adding LPSUs, better Ethernet cables, Ethernet over optical boxes, SFPs and cables, a second ER, a master clock etc...).

The reason I asked is because of the findings in this Taiko server review  https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Some believe these to be the best music servers in the world with squeeky clean ethernet out. But the Taiko designer and the reviewer still prefer to have a specific EtherRegen configuration between the Taiko and downstream player streamer.

 

Tall praise indeed!

 

They thought that the standard EtherRegen with ethernet into the A side and ethernet out of the B side was not as good as the mighty Taiko ethernet out. Bur the configuration which trumped the taiko ethernet out was the EtherRegen with Sonore optical Module and PlanetTech SFPs.

 

The interesting thing is that along the way the reviewer tried the EtherRegen in the reverse direction with ethernet only, that is ethernet in to the B side and ethernet out of the A side. And he preferred it!?

 

He said that it was a bit less bassy and slightly rougher but had far better dynamics. Of course the final state was the same configuration but with optical, but I thought it very interesting that he preferred the reverse direction with ethernet.

 

So I was wondering if any who don’t have optical connection have tried and prefer this reverse ethernet direction.

 

Until my optical module and bits and pieces arrive I will definitely try it, but there have been some cable changes in my system recently and I need to wait until it is settled and I am used to the new sound as a base level before making any more changes.

 

As a side note, the description of lack of dynamics is perhaps coincidentally exactly what I found using a Cable Matters CAT8 on my B-side. I know it is not supposed to but was night and day worse than a CAT6a. I currently use a different CAT-8 on the B-side now but it specifically has the end plug shells disconnected from cable ground and it sounds fine.

Edited October 25, 20205 yr by HumanMedia

3 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

The reason I asked is because of the findings in this Taiko server review  https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Some believe these to be the best music servers in the world with squeeky clean ethernet out. But the Taiko designer and the reviewer still prefer to have a specific EtherRegen configuration between the Taiko and downstream player streamer.

 

Tall praise indeed!

 

They thought that the standard EtherRegen with ethernet into the A side and ethernet out of the B side was not as good as the mighty Taiko ethernet out. Bur the configuration which trumped the taiko ethernet out was the EtherRegen with Sonore optical Module and PlanetTech SFPs.

 

The interesting thing is that along the way the reviewer tried the EtherRegen in the reverse direction with ethernet only, that is ethernet in to the B side and ethernet out of the A side. And he preferred it!?

 

He said that it was a bit less bassy and slightly rougher but had far better dynamics. Of course the final state was the same configuration but with optical, but I thought it very interesting that he preferred the reverse direction with ethernet.

 

So I was wondering if any who don’t have optical connection have tried and prefer this reverse ethernet direction.

 

Until my optical module and bits and pieces arrive I will definitely try it, but there have been some cable changes in my system recently and I need to wait until it is settled and I am used to the new sound as a base level before making any more changes.

 

As a side note, the description of lack of dynamics is perhaps coincidentally exactly what I found using a Cable Matters CAT8 on my B-side. I currently use a different CAT-8 on the Bside now but it specifically has the end plug shells disconnected from cable ground and it sounds fine.

I do not recall too many posts which discuss using B to A by itself. There are people using 2 ERs with optical in between, so one of the ERs is using B to A.

 

The Taiko review, at first blush, looked impressive. But the unusual setup made it difficult for people to apply to their own. One thing to note is that the Taiko Extreme owners were the only group who reported no or only a little improvement.  However, with a starting price of €23,370.00, you would expect it to perform Ethernet better than most...

 

Your experience with the CAT8 cables is indicative of how variable the results can be, depending on your setup. My A side cables all have plastic plugs (CAT6) but some people are ok with metal ones. My B side is Cat8, shield fully tied.