Musical fidelity xlps v3 mm vs mc

[Jimboz]

I got my old project perspective set up again last night after a year of digital separation and some motor/speed box probs.

 

i have 2 cartridges .. a Garrott p77i "mm" and a ortofon  rondo red. The latter is low output mc and the dynamic coil P77i is high output (mm). I hook these up into a musical fidelity xlps3. (Then Avi s21 amp/quad 21l). 

 

I got the rondo red to try bonafide mc but it sounds so smooth (veiled) that i changed back to the P77i which immediately blew it away in dynamics and extension at both ends.

 

is the likely cause the MF is a poor mc phono? ( or better mm anyway ). Maybe it's too much to ask of it. Or maybe the red is on the way out (got it 2nd hand from here). 

 

im going to install the phono board in the Avi if I can get someone to help (couple of soldering bits) and retest.

 

thanks james.

 

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

FWIW I took home a Dynavector P75mk4 and a MF MX-VYNL for comparison with my Planar 6/MC Ania.

 

The MF was a POS in comparison... not even close... it sounded like a transistor radio next to the DV.

 

It may be great on MM for all I know.

 

The MF got half an album played through it and went back the next morning.

Edited June 26, 2019 by furtherpale

[dirktoggler]

I have the MF X-LPS V3 phono stage and had a Rhondo Red cartridge for a number of years.

The phono stage is fine for MC. I think you are right when you say the Rhondo is a smooth (relaxed) cartridge - I had that feeling for quite some time.

I have recently changed to a Hana SL MC cart and it gives greater detail and excitement than the Rhondo did, still through the XLPS.

From memory the Hana has a lower output than the Rhondo so it's not the phonostage that is lacking.

[dirktoggler]

13 minutes ago, furtherpale said:

FWIW I took home a Dynavector P75mk4 and a MF MX-VYNL for comparison with my Planar 6/MC Ania.

 

The MF was a POS in comparison... not even close... it sounded like a transistor radio in comparison.

 

It may be great on MM for all I know.

 

The MF got half an album played through it and went back the next morning.

Maybe it's time I upgraded my phono stage?

[H.E. Pennypacker]

23 minutes ago, dirktoggler said:

Maybe it's time I upgraded my phono stage?

See if you can borrow one... or may well be that MC isn’t for you of course.

[andyr]

1 minute ago, furtherpale said:

See if you can borrow one... or may well be that MC isn’t for you of course.

 

^^^ what he sez!

 

It could be your phono stage is average.

Or it could be you like the 'viscerality' of an MM cart! 

 

1 hour ago, Jimboz said:

i have 2 cartridges .. a Garrott p77i "mm" and a ortofon rondo red. The latter is low output mc and the dynamic coil P77i is high output (mm). I hook these up into a musical fidelity xlps3. (Then Avi s21 amp/quad 21l). 

 

I got the rondo red to try bonafide mc but it sounds so smooth (veiled) that i changed back to the P77i which immediately blew it away in dynamics and extension at both ends.

 

 

As you're in Melbourne, if you want to come over and listen to an excellent MM compared to a very good MC - so you can make a second opinion of how MC compares with MM ... send me a PM.

 

Andy

 

[rantan]

26 minutes ago, dirktoggler said:

Maybe it's time I upgraded my phono stage?

Definitely. Try the Vincent PHO 8 for  or the dynavector P75 Mk IV.. depending on budget

 

MF make really good amplfiers but the phono stages are usually a token effort at best.

 

I love my M5si but I only use it for CD replay because the phono stage is aimed at someone who buys a low level TT and cart and it makes a marketing point for the amp saying that a phono stage is included.

 

My turntable is connected to my Luxman, the phono stage of which is vastly superior. Chalk and cheese doesn't adequately describe the difference. I may , at some point buy an outboard phono stage for the MF.

[dirktoggler]

Thanks for the feedback @furtherpale @rantan - I'll look into the Dynavector p75.

 

As for my earlier comments, I was trying to say to the OP that the Rhondo is more likely the issue, not the phonostage. I agree that it has a relaxed sound.

A change from the Rhondo to the lower output Hana made a significant improvement for my mind, suggesting the phonostage isn't necessarily the issue. 

Can the phono-amp be bettered? Yes. Would a different / better phono-amp make the Rhondo sound less relaxed? I suspect not that much.

 

[Jimboz]

Some good stuff there thanks guys!. Yep having got the Red second hand I was wondering if it had gone off. For some reason (naive) I thought mc had reputation of detail retrieval and could be quite harsh.. obviously incorrect. It was an experiment I guess. Even the reviews give it "polite" sounding.

Bit it smoothed over all the tizz in Protishead first album and I lost some kick drum "echoing" on Eliot Smith.

 

The P77i character is def a different sound. The P77i on my setup has the detail of a half decent CD player (AVi) but with more flesh - which is pretty good for a "modest" cartridge.  But I was wondering as I was clearly losing dynamics in comparison I tried tweeking the Ortofon - lifting arm but to no avail. Both were very quiet in the groove so there wasn't a trade off with surface noise etc. I was wondering if cheap MC phono stages are generally worse (maybe rolled off) than the same price MM ... but at least the smoothness is reproducible on the same stage @dirktoggler so that's good.

 

I guess I was hoping for more from the Rondo Red - but after a year break (and a new amplifier) the P77i is really getting me back into the black stuff.

 

I'll look into the dynavector @furtherpale or some tube PHO8 ( @rantan I see an older post here in 2016 may have raised some reliability issues, prob nothing) after I see how installing/testing the phono stage in the AVI amp goes... Apparently is was meant to be something pretty good...I also have considered a Dino (for flexibility of carts) or a more specific Graham Slee. I heard peoples opinion of the MF LPS is a bit mixed - I think maybe "sterile" may have cropped up a bit.

 

I actually had problems with the Project motor - making a grating noise every 4s or so (so not spindle issues) and losing revs so I took it apart and lubed things up only to notice that there is not much in them apart from a magnet and a coil so couldnt understand why things went wrong. Turned out it was the damn speedbox II stuffing things up - so that's out of the equation.

 

I should try and listen to a couple of carts ... very kind - thanks for the offer @andyr- I'll PM.

 

the rondo red does look alright though .. .. pity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

22 minutes ago, Jimboz said:

Some good stuff there thanks guys!. Yep having got the Red second hand I was wondering if it had gone off. For some reason (naive) I thought mc had reputation of detail retrieval and could be quite harsh.. obviously incorrect. It was an experiment I guess. Even the reviews give it "polite" sounding.

Bit it smoothed over all the tizz in Protishead first album and I lost some kick drum "echoing" on Eliot Smith.

 

The P77i character is def a different sound. The P77i on my setup has the detail of a half decent CD player (AVi) but with more flesh - which is pretty good for a "modest" cartridge.  But I was wondering as I was clearly losing dynamics in comparison I tried tweeking the Ortofon - lifting arm but to no avail. Both were very quiet in the groove so there wasn't a trade off with surface noise etc. I was wondering if cheap MC phono stages are generally worse (maybe rolled off) than the same price MM ... but at least the smoothness is reproducible on the same stage @dirktoggler so that's good.

 

I guess I was hoping for more from the Rondo Red - but after a year break (and a new amplifier) the P77i is really getting me back into the black stuff.

 

I'll look into the dynavector @furtherpale or some tube PHO8 ( @rantan I see an older post here in 2016 may have raised some reliability issues, prob nothing) after I see how installing/testing the phono stage in the AVI amp goes... Apparently is was meant to be something pretty good...I also have considered a Dino (for flexibility of carts) or a more specific Graham Slee. I heard peoples opinion of the MF LPS is a bit mixed - I think maybe "sterile" may have cropped up a bit.

 

I actually had problems with the Project motor - making a grating noise every 4s or so (so not spindle issues) and losing revs so I took it apart and lubed things up only to notice that there is not much in them apart from a magnet and a coil so couldnt understand why things went wrong. Turned out it was the damn speedbox II stuffing things up - so that's out of the equation.

 

I should try and listen to a couple of carts ... very kind - thanks for the offer @andyr- I'll PM.

 

the rondo red does look alright though .. .. pity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dynavector also gets you infinite cart compatibility.

Edited June 26, 2019 by furtherpale

[rantan]

2 minutes ago, Jimboz said:

. I was wondering if cheap MC phono stages are generally worse (maybe rolled off) than the same price MM ... but at least the smoothness is reproducible on the same stage @dirktoggler so that's good.

 

I guess I was hoping for more from the Rondo Red - but after a year break (and a new amplifier) the P77i is really getting me back into the black stuff.

 

I'll look into the dynavector @furtherpale or some tube PHO8 ( @rantan I see an older post here in 2016 may have raised some reliability issues, prob nothing)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the first point, I think you are 100% correct.

 

IME, less expensive, high output MC carts almost always sound inferior to equivalently priced MM carts. If I was seeking an MC cart I would be looking at low output models.

I think the Garrott P77i is superb on a  value V performance equation.

 

The other thing was that the Vincent PHO 8 did/does have some reliability issues but that is in the context of them being a "best seller " and at $400 are hard to pass up
If the budget can stretch, the Dynavector is vastly superior, as it should be at triple the price.