bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 Evening, I have a anti-static carbon fibre brush next to my record player which makes an appearance on every record that hasn't been played for a long time once they hit the platter. This evening I went to play one of my coloured vinyls, entirely white. Low and behold I then see individual fibres from the brush IN my grooves after a few spins! I have avoided playing any further vinyl until I can solve this. So the question is, do I -: Buy one of the Pro-Ject Spin Clean units to clean out the fibres or, Give at least the record I can see the fibres in to a PRO? I will purchase a new brush now. My current cleaning ensemble consisted of the brush and the AM Record Cleaning w/cloth spray. Open to ANY suggestions about what I should do to upgrade my current cleaning situation, clean up the mess I currently have and to ensure it does not happen again. Any help appreciated. Cheers. 1
vwo60 Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/vinyl-record-roller-cleaner, these are great and leave no trace and can be cleaned under the tap. The one I use is the Nagoaka version and is considerably more expensive. the ones at Decibel Hi Fi appear to be a more inexpensive version and will clean far better than the carbon brusn. https://www.analogueseduction.net/rollers/nagaoka-cl-1000-rolling-record-cleaner.html 1
bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Author Posted April 27, 2019 Thank you @vwo60 - considering the price of the cleaner from Decibel Hi-Fi it would be worth trying that before I potentially spend $150+ in the short term. Do you use any washes at all?
andyr Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 11:41 AM, vwo60 said: http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/vinyl-record-roller-cleaner, these are great and leave no trace and can be cleaned under the tap. The one I use is the Nagoaka version and is considerably more expensive. the ones at Decibel Hi Fi appear to be a more inexpensive version and will clean far better than the carbon brusn. https://www.analogueseduction.net/rollers/nagaoka-cl-1000-rolling-record-cleaner.html Expand Mmmm - I'm afraid I think you're deluded, vw. The whole point of wiping an LP before play is to get dust - not off the surface of the LP but out of the grooves (where the stylus sits). A 'roller cleaner' can only work on the surface of an LP - it has no 'projections' to get down into the grooves. But it's the grooves where the stylus goes - so that's what we want to have clean. A CF brush, for instance, can get down into the grooves - as well as the surface. So that's what we use to wipe the LP before each play - however, it doesn't remove the need to wet-clean the grooves, to take all of the ingrained dirt out! The wet-clean (either wet/vac RCM or us tank) gets the grooves clean to start with ... the CF brush merely keeps them clean. Andy 1
audiofeline Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 I would be wary of the AM spray. The carbon fibre brush will remove dust and dirt from the grooves, and do a reasonable job of it. The spray would tend to dampen the dirt/dust and make it stick to the grooves, making it harder to remove. The only wet cleaning I would suggest would be an ultrasonic bath, a vacuum based rcm, or one of the spin-clean style cleaners, then make sure the record is bone-dry before playing.
bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Author Posted April 27, 2019 I understand what you're saying @andyr - the challenge I have is that the brush (or the tips, whatever they are called) have dropped off the brush and are now seated in the grooves of the record. @audiofeline - I was considering one of the spin-clean units. What is the confidence that a new brush, a spin-clean unit or a combination of the both will get the fibres out of the grooves do we think? Who knows how many other records of mine this has happened to - this is the only white record I own which is why I saw it!!
Candyflip Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:07 PM, bigev said: I understand what you're saying @andyr - the challenge I have is that the brush (or the tips, whatever they are called) have dropped off the brush and are now seated in the grooves of the record. Expand I could be wrong, but I don't *think* that's what you are seeing there. Quite a few white vinyl records have minor dark imperfections that make them look perhaps like they have dirt/brush hairs in them, but a much closer inspection with a microscope or a good magnifier of some type, might show them to be IN the vinyl itself. Indeed very few hairs would be small enough, or fine enough, to actually attach themselves within the microscopically small and shallow grooves of a record. Have you a photo of these hairs on your record? Would be interesting to see it, so we can be sure. cheers! 2
vwo60 Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) On 27/04/2019 at 11:53 AM, andyr said: Mmmm - I'm afraid I think you're deluded, vw. The whole point of wiping an LP before play is to get dust - not off the surface of the LP but out of the grooves (where the stylus sits). A 'roller cleaner' can only work on the surface of an LP - it has no 'projections' to get down into the grooves. But it's the grooves where the stylus goes - so that's what we want to have clean. A CF brush, for instance, can get down into the grooves - as well as the surface. So that's what we use to wipe the LP before each play - however, it doesn't remove the need to wet-clean the grooves, to take all of the ingrained dirt out! The wet-clean (either wet/vac RCM or us tank) gets the grooves clean to start with ... the CF brush merely keeps them clean. Andy Expand The roller is a soft silicone that conform to the shape of the record grooves, so I guess my use of the roller for several years with excellent on some very expensive records does not count. all your carbon record brush does is rearrange the dirt and will never get to the bottom of the grooves and I stopped using them 10 years ago. Edited April 27, 2019 by vwo60
Douglas HiFi Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 Hi, Firstly... roller record cleaners don't work that great... others have stated why. Carbon fibre brushes are dry only use and are to remove tiny dust particles using static. Knosti is slightly better than spin clean.. both are better than carbon fibre brush. I have found that using the Melody Mate fluid in the Knosti cleaner system the results are excellent. I still use a carbon fibre brush lightly and quickly before playing the record. 1
H.E. Pennypacker Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:28 PM, Douglas HiFi said: Hi, Firstly... roller record cleaners don't work that great... others have stated why. Carbon fibre brushes are dry only use and are to remove tiny dust particles using static. Knosti is slightly better than spin clean.. both are better than carbon fibre brush. I have found that using the Melody Mate fluid in the Knosti cleaner system the results are excellent. I still use a carbon fibre brush lightly and quickly before playing the record. Expand Any view on the Kirmuss? https://youtu.be/2zldHW2dceo
bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Author Posted April 27, 2019 Here is a photo of the record at its worst section. I can't get any of these off as the current brush just continues to shed. Many of these are inline with the grooves ...
Candyflip Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:49 PM, bigev said: Here is a photo of the record at its worst section. I can't get any of these off as the current brush just continues to shed. Many of these are inline with the grooves ... Expand OK, so it'll be static that's locking the fibres onto the wax - nothing more. You can get this off with an anti-static cloth, or a wet wash (which will get rid of the static, also). and obviously, get rid of that brush - it must be very old, or very cheap, to be doing this. Of course it should only be used dry - never with any sprays or liquids, or of course, you can expect a brush to perhaps lose a few hairs onto the surface in response. 2
bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Author Posted April 27, 2019 Ok great, thanks @candyflip - new brush tomorrow.
audiofeline Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 1:28 PM, candyflip said: OK, so it'll be static that's locking the fibres onto the wax - nothing more. You can get this off with an anti-static cloth, or a wet wash (which will get rid of the static, also)... Expand Or use a zerostat gun. 2
audiofeline Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:07 PM, bigev said: ...What is the confidence that a new brush, a spin-clean unit or a combination of the both will get the fibres out of the grooves do we think?... Expand Providing you haven't sprayed the record and the moisture (any other chemicals in the spray) haven't adhered the fibres to the vinyl, they should just be sitting on the surface (as @candyflip indicated, it's probably static that's adhering the fibres). The fibres should be dislodged by a (non-shedding) cleaner (just like dust) or a wash and de-static treatment. If any are remaining will probably knocked out of the groove by the stylus when the record is played. 1
Rocketfrogs Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 It's really weird because the fibres are all different lengths which would suggest they are not just falling off the brush but snapping as well. I've never experienced that in 20+ Carbon Fibre Brush's over the years. Take your one into the back yard and burn the wretched thing. 1 1
Wimbo Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:49 PM, bigev said: Here is a photo of the record at its worst section. I can't get any of these off as the current brush just continues to shed. Many of these are inline with the grooves ... Expand Whilst it looks like there are some fibres on the record, it looks to me, on my 32" screen, that the majority are embedded into the vinyl as Candy said. I've got three brushes. A long hair from "Hensa" and two different Deccas from the 80's . I use a lamp across my LP's which shows dust landing as soon as you dust them. No hairs though. 1
vwo60 Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) On 27/04/2019 at 12:28 PM, Douglas HiFi said: Hi, Firstly... roller record cleaners don't work that great... others have stated why. Carbon fibre brushes are dry only use and are to remove tiny dust particles using static. Knosti is slightly better than spin clean.. both are better than carbon fibre brush. I have found that using the Melody Mate fluid in the Knosti cleaner system the results are excellent. I still use a carbon fibre brush lightly and quickly before playing the record. Expand Disagree with you totally as my experience show other wise, even under a microscope . so are you recommending a product that you sell as a business. Edited April 27, 2019 by vwo60
t_mike Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 You didn't by chance have a haircut yourself prior? 5
bigev Posted April 27, 2019 Author Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 8:51 PM, Rocketfrogs said: Take your one into the back yard and burn the wretched thing. Expand No question about that.
Cigar nuke Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 My gosh did you clean your vinyl using your black haired dog? i think the last few suggestions have nailed it, and is what I use. 1. Okki nokki spin cleaner with fluid supplied, on all new vinyl. 2. Once dry I hit with zerostat gun - cleaning them puts static on them, you can feel and hear it. 3. Then use air in a can for any dust/fibers. You can’t get these off unless you use an anti static gun 4. All new, cleaned records then go into new mofi anti static sleeve 5. Record jacket then goes into protective sleeve with jacket opening away from protective sleeve opening so no dust can get in Good luck 1
Cigar nuke Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 Whilst on the topic of cleaning.... ‘’Can anyone recommend a vinyl record drying stand. Getting tired of placing them on upside down cups/glasses. And how do you use a long haired brush compared to a short carbon fiber brush. I have only ever used/owned the latter. Thanks.
andyr Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:07 PM, bigev said: I understand what you're saying @andyr - the challenge I have is that the brush (or the tips, whatever they are called) have dropped off the brush and are now seated in the grooves of the record. Expand Then you need to invest in a wet-vac RCM or a us tank. 10 hours ago, bigev said: What is the confidence that a new brush, a spin-clean unit or a combination of the both will get the fibres out of the grooves do we think? Expand A new brush won't ... a spin-clean unit may ... a wet-vac RCM or a us tank will! Why I say this is that the vac cycle on a wet-vac RCM sucks the (wet) grooves dry. IE. it removes whatever is lying in the grooves. A us tank works by knocking out whatever is in the grooves. A spin-clean uni doesn't do either of the above actions - hence, I suspect it won't get the fibres out. 10 hours ago, bigev said: Who knows how many other records of mine this has happened to - this is the only white record I own which is why I saw it!! Expand Indeed! A sad situation. Andy
betty boop Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 1:47 PM, bigev said: Ok great, thanks @candyflip - new brush tomorrow. Expand yes just replace the brush... ive bene using mine some 15+ years and no bristles falling off... so any replacement (decent one should keep you going for quite a awhile before worrying about falling out...
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