Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I have made 20 or so now. The trick is adequate grunt, lots of RAM, and no moving parts inside the computer - hence the outboard file storage. I find the full ATX boards a little better. The C2D chips are the easiest to keep cool passively and still do the job well. Having said that I have an i3 on a uATX board that isn't bad either but it runs the CPU at 15 degrees hotter than a C2D. I also find DDR3 Ram to be a little better than DDR2. One of the tough things is getting the fanless PSUs as they have to be imported. The second tough thing is getting a passive CPU cooler to do the job. I have just sourced one now that enables me to fit them in fairly standard HTPC cases, which is a first - they had to be full height up till this point. The third tough thing is to develop a fully functional build that is stable - and then you find one of the parts is no longer available - the PC market moves so fast. So your R&D becomes obsolete quickly. It is all about knowing what chipsets Apple uses in their stuff and then sourcing boards and CPUs that are compatible. Because Apple are always slightly behind the curve, the list of what Apple supports is mainly obsoleted boards. The Hackintoshes do beat the Mac Minis by quite a lot unfortunately. The parts for one cost around $2,000 to do it well, and that is for a cheap case. With a nicer case the cost can go up to $3000 quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousgeorgenz Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Antipodes;145533 wrote: The Hackintoshes do beat the Mac Minis by quite a lot unfortunately. The parts for one cost around $2,000 to do it well, and that is for a cheap case. With a nicer case the cost can go up to $3000 quite easily. Yeesh, $2000-$3000 ain't chump change! Has anyone compared with Mach2Mini? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie1553552694 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 It starts mounting up, but it's the first duck in the row. Or chicken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Amazing how great sound doesn't come cheap - even with music servers. You could do one much cheaper than $2k in parts with a bit of compromise. Here goes. CPU $190, Cooler $100, Mobo $110, 4GB RAM $100, SSD $150, OS $50, CD Drive $40, PSU $100, Case $100. That is pricing up a system that I know works and sounds much better than the Mac Mini. But the PSU has a fan (the effect on the sound is not huge but significant), the mobo can only go as far as 4GB of RAM (8GB is better), and a better mobo will sound better, and most audiophiles I know want a decent looking case in their stereo rack. A top PSU will also have better regulation, and together with a nice case these two upgrades can add anything from $600 to $2000 to that total above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie1553552694 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 It depends if this machine does rips. Optical drive redundant if not. OS can be installed via USB drive too. Not much saving. I wonder if the network features come standard on the mobo? Control via touchscreen device requires TCP protocols. Essential for most users I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Wifi adds $45, enabling the ipad and ipod etc, and optical drive can be dropped, maybe on the USB drive, if you really want to save dough. Most audiophiles I have made them for end up wanting a lot of things, and the price goes up. While you can do it for $1k, I haven't come across any that want that when they think it through. The big issue is convincing them NOT to use the machine for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousgeorgenz Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Antipodes;145538 wrote: The big issue is convincing them NOT to use the machine for anything else. Exactly, I can just see the wife saying "why can't i check email or surf the web...?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousgeorgenz Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 What are the recommended fan-less PSUs, passive CPU cooler and cases? Or is this something that should be Googled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The Silverstone Nightjars - later models, and the Antec Phantom (fan only comes on under load), but I think the Nightjar is the only current model. The best cooler is a heatsink case really, such as the HFX cases, but you are up for 750 Euros for that solution once you include freight from Europe. One of the Orochi coolers (now discontinued) was good and I am testing a new one that I am very impressed with to replace the Orochi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 In answer to the case question, here are some of the cases I have Hackintoshes in at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Typically I recommend you don't use any network connections as the additional activity is a problem. I prefer to use infra red remote control or rf if the customer likes that idea. It may be nice to use an iPad or iPod to run your music, but we if we are talking about sound quality, it is a different matter. I also don't recommend you update the OS once you have a stable system. The updates just add bulk to the OS and features you won't need. The danger is that your Hackintosh may stop working. This is because one iteration of the OS may support your hardware, but Apple may not have ever used that hardware in their boxes - they were just making allowances for using it in the future. If at a later date they decide they will never use that hardware they will remove it from their next update and bang, your Hackintosh doesn't work till you find a fix. The danger is getting seduced by adding things like an iPad, using Ping, etc etc. These things are not good for the sound. But I admit even if you do use them the Hackintosh will sound a lot better than the Mini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixon76 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Slightly confused but how does one control the beast without something like an iPad. Or does the remote that comes with modern macs work through the infra red? But then you'd need the thing hooked up to your TV??? Wouldn't activating the video circuitry have it's own 'noise' issues? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I find the video to be less intrusive than the noise that goes on with being connected to the internet. But offline is fine, or not so bad. One of the reasons I like using ir remote is I can integrate everything onto one remote. Using the iPad, you don't want to be using the OS System volume so you are switching between the iPad and another remote. Either will work better for different individuals. I have found an inexpensive PCI wifi card that works with every compatible motherboard, just put it in and boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I haven't tried this one but it is apparently excellent - Seasonic X-400 - I have one coming and will try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy9 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Excuse my ignorance but why is Amarra considered better than Pure Music or EAC or just Flac? Am I missing something because I thought we're just transferring the 0's & 1's from the CD to a file on the computer or NAS HD. Providing those 'bits' transfer as they were on the CD then one lossless copy programme should be as good as another. Obviously people seem to think otherwise or they wouldn't pay for something as expensive as Amarra when there's free programmes out there. Are these expensive programmes adding something to the mix that changes those 'bits' so they sound different/better than they were on the CD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkr001 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 You have confused several types of software here. Amarra and Pure Music are players and read files stored. EAC is a ripper used to read CDs and store in a variety of file formats FLAC is an audio codec If you are talking about ripping different programs handle errors differently. So you could end up with a file that is not bit perfect. As for different players I'll leave it to someone else to try to explain why one is better than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixon76 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 davyboy9;145611 wrote: Excuse my ignorance but why is Amarra considered better than Pure Music or EAC or just Flac? Am I missing something because I thought we're just transferring the 0's & 1's from the CD to a file on the computer or NAS HD. Providing those 'bits' transfer as they were on the CD then one lossless copy programme should be as good as another. Obviously people seem to think otherwise or they wouldn't pay for something as expensive as Amarra when there's free programmes out there. Are these expensive programmes adding something to the mix that changes those 'bits' so they sound different/better than they were on the CD? Probably best to set aside a bit of time and read all 40 pages :eek: of this thread, paying special attention to Antipodes posts. Or you may want to pop over to www.computeraudiophile.com and see if they have a primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie1553552694 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 nixon76;145618 wrote: Probably best to set aside a bit of time and read all 40 pages :eek: of this thread, paying special attention to Antipodes posts. Or you may want to pop over to www.computeraudiophile.com and see if they have a primer. There's nothing like putting in the hard yards and burning out your own retinas. The software player and everything else in the chain makes a difference if you have a reference level system. If you don't, it's harder to hear any appreciable difference, and while mid-level audio has had the bar progressively raised of late, the ambitious computer audiophile can still claim some pretty nice rewards with a bit of effort (and money). The argument of bits is bits is refuted many times over in this thread, and some fairly concrete and definitive examples have been offered. Over to you DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Hz Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 In terms of primers, this (http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/page/assets/dCS_Guide_to_Computer_Audio.pdf) piece from - of all people - dCS, is a pretty decent summary of key points, with some useful set-up prompts for different systems etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarth Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 40Hz;145625 wrote: In terms of primers, this ( http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/page/assets/dCS_Guide_to_Computer_Audio.pdf ) piece from - of all people - dCS, is a pretty decent summary of key points, with some useful set-up prompts for different systems etc... Thanks for the link, 40Hz - this does seem to be a good overview. computeraudiophile.com tends to refer people elsewhere for this primer-type info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 If there is interest, I am happy to identify a hackintosh build that involves readily, locally available parts and a guide for how to do it. It will be a bit of work so I would like to gauge interest first. I would target it at near to state of the art without getting too expensive, but way better than a Mac Mini, and identify for you where you could improve it with more money spent. It will be a new Hackintosh build too as the ones I have 'in stock' use some imported parts and freight would make it tough for the DIYer doing the same - so I would need to develop the build and test it first, so that might take a week or so. It would also be pitched at a level where anyone that could install an OS could do it. But I could not guarantee the results - except to prove that it can be done myself first. I would start a new thread for this. Not sure how the Ed would view this so I am just putting the idea out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarth Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Antipodes;145654 wrote: If there is interest, I am happy to identify a hackintosh build that involves readily, locally available parts and a guide for how to do it. Great idea Antipodes - I have headed down the Windows path (hopefully not to the fiery place down below)? - but the 'hackintosh' route seems more assured of success at the high end level, if one has the right hardware and the knowledge of how to put it all together - which you're willing to share. Go for it, I say. Surely the ed. would have no objection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eRaS1553552749 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 horn-loaded;145658 wrote: Great idea Antipodes - I have headed down the Windows path (hopefully not to the fiery place down below)? - but the 'hackintosh' route seems more assured of success at the high end level, if one has the right hardware and the knowledge of how to put it all together - which you're willing to share. Go for it, I say. Surely the ed. would have no objection? +1! That would be really great. It's just a pity that it wouldn't function as an all-purpose machine too, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 eRaS;145665 wrote: +1! That would be really great. It's just a pity that it wouldn't function as an all-purpose machine too, though. That would be your choice - I will aim for all functions to work except maybe things like Sleep (which can be problemmatic). Some of the choices I might make are: - uATX so that the box doesn't have to be terribly big - onboard graphics so that the heat can be kept down, cost minimised, and you can add a graphics card if you want - wifi and wired ethernet - optional ir remote control - optional firewire - optional eSata But the need to be fanless and playing Warcraft (or some such) won't mix well. And it is impossible to guarantee that it will keep working after an OS update. The hard part will be developing a build from parts that have good local supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigi Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Are you kidding me? :eek: Given that the mac mini is widely touted (on 'other' sites) as one of the best options available (notwithstanding that there are a few companies around with optimised minis and or mini tweaks) ,and; given that "we" already "know" that the Mac mini isn't all that great when compared to a Hack. (if we are to believe Mark and the other local forums members who corroborate this view!) ....then this information would be a rare and fantastic resource! I mean... if a commercial product developer had this info they certainly wouldn't give it away. And if the info was coming from a relatively inexperienced DIY'er who happened to be enthusiastic with their own results... we might not be so eager. BUT, given that Antipodes has spent so much time and dollars in his personal research and development quest, and has actually compared one option against the next.. (not just relied on what can be read on the web) , plus refined this knowledge with visits from other experienced forum members... well, I for one would feel like the extremely fortunate beneficiary of a benevolent and generous gift! so, that's a yes please from me! My own self serving wish list would be this: low cost! Close to SOTA but low budget seems perfect! 80% of the SQ for 30% of the cost = sweet! Optional add ons to a base line cost = perfect! pretty cases and multifunctionality... no thanks! Kick-a** sound for not too much $$$ YUP! BTW did i read somewhere on these pages that someone knew of some SW that could make the Ipod touch work as RF remote?? Would this then overcome concerns about a degraded SQ when using a Ipod touch remote? Antipodes;145672 wrote: That would be your choice - I will aim for all functions to work except maybe things like Sleep (which can be problemmatic). Some of the choices I might make are: - uATX so that the box doesn't have to be terribly big - onboard graphics so that the heat can be kept down, cost minimised, and you can add a graphics card if you want - wifi and wired ethernet - optional ir remote control - optional firewire - optional eSata But the need to be fanless and playing Warcraft (or some such) won't mix well. And it is impossible to guarantee that it will keep working after an OS update. The hard part will be developing a build from parts that have good local supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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