Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Hey drake what are you driving your 20.7s with . would like to come for a listen .Cheers gary the music monster Edited January 22, 2019 by Music monster Add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Stat midrange will be surpassed with the magnapans 30.7 . In the reviews from the tas and hifi plus ,the reviewers say the only panel speaker that can challenge the 30.7s in the midrange is the Martin Logan clx art, challenge would mean come close to 30.7s but not as good and of corse the 30.7s would surpass the clx art in every other department.i haven’t herd 30,7s but have no reason to believe this is correct. Jv of tas says you cannot do better regardless of price and it’s his new overall reference. hifi plus said it sets new standards and it’s a remarkable design achievement.its also the greatest ultra high end buy ever.haveing herd many stats and ribbons I definitely prefer the sound of ribbons some people might prefer stats opinions will very, the fact that magnapan is the biggest seller of panel speakers in the world buy a large margin speaks for itself which of the two is more popular. Gary the music monster s Edited January 22, 2019 by Music monster Add photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Anyone know what the impedance characteristics of the 30.7 are? How low does it go, does it have any capacitance etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 It’s a 4 ohms 86 dB efficient , Gos down to 20 hz. It’s a true full range panel.thats what I have herd.gary the music monster . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gary janezic said: It’s a 4 ohms 86 dB efficient , Gos down to 20 hz. It’s a true full range panel.thats what I have herd.gary the music monster That's not quite informative enough. Looking for an impedance and phase graph across the full frequency range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 There isn’t one that I know of yet. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ittaku said: That's not quite informative enough. Looking for an impedance and phase graph across the full frequency range. It's a new product, Con - this info is not out there yet. But Maggie drivers are almost exclusively resistive - so have very little capacitance ... or inductance. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, andyr said: It's a new product, Con - this info is not out there yet. But Maggie drivers are almost exclusively resistive - so have very little capacitance ... or inductance. Thanks, I'm just curious if this one will again be more or less not suited to valve amplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Any amplifier valve or solid state should be able to drive them as long as they can deliver the current requirements,I would say 250 rms minimum.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) That's power, not current. Whilst they're intimately related, you can easily meet the 250 target and not adequate current for a magnepan. Valves will tend not to. Edited January 22, 2019 by Ittaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Yes I put it wrong my apologies. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 No need to apologise. I did not say it's impossible, there's no reason you couldn't run a high power valve amp with them, I just said solid state is more suitable. I'd say the impedance fluctuation would cause dramatic frequency response changes with valve amplification that has little to no scope to cope with wide fluctuations in impedance and very low impedances. That said, with some DSP correction to the frequency response that effect can be managed to some degree, though linearity wouldn't be guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aechmea Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Ittaku said: That's not quite informative enough. Looking for an impedance and phase graph across the full frequency range. I don't think that there will ever be a graph. I read once that Magnepan won't let a review proceed if the reviewer wants to post measurements. It was on the internet so must be right. Never been any graphs/measurements of the 20.7 that I know of. A German magazine published that the 20.7s were 77dB/W/m. Hmmmmm. No wonder you need a monster amp, if that is true. My 3.6R had a review in Stereophile in 2000? and if I remember correctly there was plenty of discussion re the measurements as a result. That may have been the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. Addicted to music has found an impedance plot of his 1.7s That's about it as far as I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkinClassAudio Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I don't think there will be problems driving 20.7s or 30.7s with valve amplification, but not the puny variety. Reviewer Don Saltzman drives his 20.7s with VTL and AR amps. AR voice their components on a 20.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Again, I keep saying it's not that it's impossible, just less than ideal... Given no one knows what the frequency response of these looks like anyway, then valve amplification causing dips and peaks in the frequency response will probably go unnoticed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Ittaku said: Again, I keep saying it's not that it's impossible, just less than ideal... Given no one knows what the frequency response of these looks like anyway, then valve amplification causing dips and peaks in the frequency response will probably go unnoticed... Con, surely the best approach to using valve amps with Maggies is to remove the passive XOs and drive them actively? That way each amp just sees the one driver and there are no XO components to cause impedance changes. With 3 amps, also, you have more options in terms of what to use - as you no longer need a monster amp. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, andyr said: Con, surely the best approach to using valve amps with Maggies is to remove the passive XOs and drive them actively? That way each amp just sees the one driver and there are no XO components to cause impedance changes. With 3 amps, also, you have more options in terms of what to use - as you no longer need a monster amp. It would definitely help I agree. However, it's not really true that you need less power if you use more amps as bi/triamping is not additive except when there is mixed energy from the bottom and the top. At the very least the one driving the bass panel will still need to be just as powerful as one amp driving them all but you could get away with less powerful amps for the rest since there is usually a lot less musical energy there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 23, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted January 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ittaku said: It would definitely help I agree. However, it's not really true that you need less power if you use more amps as bi/triamping is not additive except when there is mixed energy from the bottom and the top. At the very least the one driving the bass panel will still need to be just as powerful as one amp driving them all but you could get away with less powerful amps for the rest since there is usually a lot less musical energy there. Is that correct? I think you are referring to passive multi-amping. My understanding is that active multi-amping is significantly easier on the amps (and that is what Andy is referring to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: Is that correct? I think you are referring to passive multi-amping. My understanding is that active multi-amping is significantly easier on the amps (and that is what Andy is referring to) It's still correct. What I mean is that to get the same amount of bass, you'll still need an amplifier with the same grunt. A pure 50Hz sine wave going through a one-amp solution or a many actively crossed over amp solution will only be as loud as the power it can generate at that frequency. You might get by with a little less current due to no passive xover components but you still need the power. You can certainly use amps that provide less current for midrange and tweeters, but even then the power needs to be considered, although as I said, you're not likely to need as much given how much less energy is there. Edited January 23, 2019 by Ittaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost4man Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ittaku said: It's still correct. What I mean is that to get the same amount of bass, you'll still need an amplifier with the same grunt. A pure 50Hz sine wave going through a one-amp solution or a many actively crossed over amp solution will only be as loud as the power it can generate at that frequency. You might get by with a little less current due to no passive xover components but you still need the power. You can certainly use amps that provide less current for midrange and tweeters, but even then the power needs to be considered, although as I said, you're not likely to need as much given how much less energy is there. Solid points overall. I think in the case of magnepan speakers it is worthwhile being mindful that an impedance curve would be helpful. The TR drivers do go down to 2 ohms and below so an amplifier that is capable of dealing with such a load is preferable. There is a theory that you can get away with 3 lesser amplifier's with a 3 way maggie system as opposed to a an excellent single power amp. I'm not convinced that active is the best way to go. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Magnepan do do the hardwork for you in building a passive XO. How well an active XO is able to surpass a passove one is dependent on a lot of factors. If you read the forums then you quickly discover that minidsp, Deqx, hypex etc have their supporters and detractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drake Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Gary I am driving the 20.7’s with Bryston 14B3, which is 900w into 4-ohm, so plenty of grunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkinClassAudio Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 One thing to remember is there is more than one good sound. We all have our own versions. Many have not yet found their sound. What we need is a thread setting out how to get the different types of good sound. No systems sound alike or are set up the same. My system has a sweet balance. I combined valve & ss & audioquest cables to get this sound, not to mention room setup. I don't advocate people set up their systems the way I have because that may not be a sound which is suitable for them. Hell, I'm thinking of switching to Magico because I think that may be more suitable for the music and sound I want as an endgame. We should not think a set configuration will result in perfect sound from Maggies. Everyone is just poking around in the dark. That includes the most brilliant minds in audio. It's a case of deciding what type of sound you want and setting up your system to achieve that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Point source Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 20 hours ago, Ittaku said: Thanks, I'm just curious if this one will again be more or less not suited to valve amplification. Scratching my head reading this comment? Minnesota has been making a similar style/range product since the beautiful T1’s of the 70’s. Valves were around then and continue to be a boutique $$ product even now. I wonder why ? Well actually I already know, valves and Maggie’s sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 23, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, GroovyGuru said: Everyone is just poking around in the dark. That includes the most brilliant minds in audio. I reckon that’s a harsh conclusion. There’s a lot in audio that’s very well understood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Its come to my attention that some people on Stereonet think I only like my system,and it’s the best and no other system compares.,this is definitely not the case and I have herd many excellent systems that surpass what I have.yes I build my system to my personal tastes,but there’s definitely more than one good sound out there. Many excellent systems I have herd sounded great,but each one had a different sound signature that suited the owner.some like mini monitors, horns others stats or ribbons and the list goes on. I believe we are all individuals in this hobby and everyone likes there own system, so forget about this is the best,mine is the best just enjoy the music that’s what its all about.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts