Full, rich, forward presentation. Recommendations please....

[georgehifi]

 

On 23/09/2018 at 4:51 AM, Brendon Foster said:

Hey all,

 

I'm hunting for a new amp

This whole thread is a new amp for the OP, I never mentioned a preamp at all, just recommended poweramps

 

On 27/09/2018 at 9:03 AM, Onslo said:

To me someone seeking a front row, full and rich sounding system can do a lot better than an ME amp. I am amazed what these get relentlessly recommended for on this forum. I have had a few ME amps but would describe them as thin.

I am amazed what these get relentlessly recommended for on this forum.

And this was your response to my suggestion, which I said. 

"That must tell you something, wasn't right at your end." To make that sort of comment.

Again no mention of ME preamps by me. If you didn't know, I'm anti all preamps.

 

3 hours ago, Onslo said:

I was describing the ME preamp George

Sorry sir you were describing ME poweramps, as your above statement shows.

 

And sorry but you have no idea what your talking about if you are describing the ME preamp as opamp based with a Blue Alps, you couldn't be further from the truth. The only opamp in an ME preamp is for the DC servo duties. The preamp is discrete transistors. You need to know what your talking about before showing your *********.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by georgehifi

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 hours ago, Onslo said:

I was describing the ME preamp George, as you say a perfect match for an ME power amp.

A perfect match for ANY power amp, in fact. 

 

Quote

It is an opamp based pre with an Alps blue pot. Nothing exotic. 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are very, very wrong. The only OP amps in any ME preamp are for power supply duties, remote volume control (where fitted) and for DC servo correction. EVERY amplification stage consists of hand matched transistors (to within 1% tolerance for Vbe and hFE), in pure complementary symmetry configuration. There is no global feedback anywhere. All feedback is local. So, whilst the preamp APPEARS to be mundane, it is actually anything but. I suspect that you have not listened to one after the mandatory 3 day warm-up time (very important in our Southern states).

 

Exotic? Absolutely. There is nothing like it on the planet. 

 

Does the accuracy suit every listener? Absolutely not. Some listeners require the additional distortion supplied by certain preamps. ME preamps are not for those listeners.

 

Quote

 

 

Ive taken the top off a couple of preamps to show an ME 14 which is a good simple preamp and a better preamp with a stepped attenuator from Pass Labs. I know which I prefer.

I suggest you do two things:

 

* Ensure that the ME has been plugged in and powered up for at least 3 days.

* Listen under blind conditions.

 

I'm not suggesting that the Pass will be inferior to your way-overdue-for-rebuilding, 25+ year old ME preamp. It is very likely that the Pass will beat the ME. I am, however, quite confident that, after a suitable refurb, the ME14 will probably give the Pass a good run for the money. A later model ME14 is a most formidable preamp. I suggest you try to listen to one with an open mind.

 

 

Quote

 

 

Yes, that is an ancient ME14 preamp. Quite good for what it was. This is a much later and significantly better sounding variant. The external power supply in the one you've cited contains a 4VA, EI transformer and 2,000uF of filter capacitance. The external power supply in the later models contains a 40VA, double C core transformer, combined with 12,000uF of filter capacitance. The internal regulation of the old model consists two, tracking regulators. The newer model consists:

6,000uF initial filtering, followed by a capacitance multiplier, followed by precision regulators, followed by another 4,000uF (now upgraded to 8,000uF) of capacitance.

 

The differences are profound. 

 

The active circuitry remains the same, as there is no need to change what is already a very transparent topology. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Guest rondine]

Where’s the new power supply pcb from?

 

ron

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 minutes ago, rondine said:

Where’s the new power supply pcb from?

 

ron

Peter Stein. It was released back in 1998 or thereabouts.

[Onslo]

Thanks Zaph, very interesting. I wasn't aware so many improvements went into the later gear. They did well to resist the temptation of a new model name or number at every iteration. Not sure if such an old one especially sans remote volume warrants an upgrade but it is tempting.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

11 minutes ago, Onslo said:

Thanks Zaph, very interesting. I wasn't aware so many improvements went into the later gear. They did well to resist the temptation of a new model name or number at every iteration. Not sure if such an old one especially sans remote volume warrants an upgrade but it is tempting.

 

In top operating condition, even your old one will sound excellent. Even headphones will astonish. Make up an adapter lead and be prepared to really enjoy your 'phones. 

[Brendon Foster]

OP here.

Wow! Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everybody. Haven't checked this post for a while and lots of interesting comments since I was last here. I'll try and respond to a couple of the comments over the weekend.

Update on my situation. I have been trying out a slightly different direction over the last few days. I have borrowed a chord electronics qutest and two REL T5i subs in stereo pair from Douglas Hifi (great shop and superb service btw, highly recommended).

The qutest has given a little more of the front row delivery I was looking for. The subs have added a fuller, richer bottom end and also fleshed out some of the vocals. The sound stage is wider and deeper but loses the focus that the spatials and the qutest (through the MF X10D into the Peachtree) give on their own. This combination has gotten closer to my requirements than any of the amps I have tried but still isn't quite there.

TBH, I am considering selling the Spatials at this point. Perhaps a pair of KEF R3's on stands with a pair of REL subs might get me where I need to be or possibly a pair of KEF R500. The amp still needs to be resolved/replaced but I don't think it's the biggest issue in my system. I am feeling like I might be better to have some colour from the speakers and a neutral amp rather than trying to add colour to the very neutral presentation of the Spatials.

Cheers.

Brendon.

[Al.M]

If the coaxial mid tweeter driver in the Kef R3 or R500 is anything like the LS50, which I have, it could be quite good with subs. My Ls50 image very well and are very forward with lots of detail.

 

It can be more challenging to integrate subs as well as large bass woofer cabinet type speakers alone, but the costs and choices in the latter start to go up dramatically. It depends on what the total spend is in both options and see what is available. Going used and vintage speakers may be quite a good option depending how old you are prepared to accept.

[Ihearmusic]

1 hour ago, Brendon Foster said:

OP here.

Wow! Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everybody. Haven't checked this post for a while and lots of interesting comments since I was last here. I'll try and respond to a couple of the comments over the weekend.

Update on my situation. I have been trying out a slightly different direction over the last few days. I have borrowed a chord electronics qutest and two REL T5i subs in stereo pair from Douglas Hifi (great shop and superb service btw, highly recommended).

The qutest has given a little more of the front row delivery I was looking for. The subs have added a fuller, richer bottom end and also fleshed out some of the vocals. The sound stage is wider and deeper but loses the focus that the spatials and the qutest (through the MF X10D into the Peachtree) give on their own. This combination has gotten closer to my requirements than any of the amps I have tried but still isn't quite there.

TBH, I am considering selling the Spatials at this point. Perhaps a pair of KEF R3's on stands with a pair of REL subs might get me where I need to be or possibly a pair of KEF R500. The amp still needs to be resolved/replaced but I don't think it's the biggest issue in my system. I am feeling like I might be better to have some colour from the speakers and a neutral amp rather than trying to add colour to the very neutral presentation of the Spatials.

Cheers.

Brendon.

Selling the Spatils!?

Now I really have to make an effort and pay you a visit with my KT 88.

It sound fantastic with my ZU Soul. I just wonder whether the Spatials could better the ZUs.

PM received by the way.

[Al.M]

7 minutes ago, Ihearmusic said:

Selling the Spatils!?

Now I really have to make an effort and pay you a visit with my KT 88.

It sound fantastic with my ZU Soul. I just wonder whether the Spatials could better the ZUs.

PM received by the way.

If the KT88 is anything like mine it should be a great result in the mids, treble, voice and imaging and should trounce the Class D in the Peachtree amp. The open baffle woofers may still do with subs to backup foundation.

[Ihearmusic]

2 minutes ago, Al.M said:

If the KT88 is anything like mine it should be a great result in the mids, treble, voice and imaging and should trounce the Class D in the Peachtree amp. The open baffle woofers may still do with subs to backup foundation.

Yes, bass would be the interesting bit. The ZUs are well balanced over the full range. I do not miss anything, but then one never knows what one is missing until one stumbles across it.

[audio_file]

Roksan Caspian M2.

Sugden A21A Signature.

[Brendon Foster]

Roksan Caspian M2.
Sugden A21A Signature.

Have searches alerts on pretty much every site or there for a Caspian but seem to be rarer than rocking horse poo!

[audio_file]

1 hour ago, Brendon Foster said:

11 hours ago, audio_file said:

Roksan Caspian M2.
Sugden A21A Signature.

Have searches alerts on pretty much every site or there for a Caspian but seem to be rarer than rocking horse poo!

They are popular.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

On 28/09/2018 at 11:28 PM, Brendon Foster said:

OP here.

Wow! Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everybody. Haven't checked this post for a while and lots of interesting comments since I was last here. I'll try and respond to a couple of the comments over the weekend.

Update on my situation. I have been trying out a slightly different direction over the last few days. I have borrowed a chord electronics qutest and two REL T5i subs in stereo pair from Douglas Hifi (great shop and superb service btw, highly recommended).

The qutest has given a little more of the front row delivery I was looking for. The subs have added a fuller, richer bottom end and also fleshed out some of the vocals. The sound stage is wider and deeper but loses the focus that the spatials and the qutest (through the MF X10D into the Peachtree) give on their own. This combination has gotten closer to my requirements than any of the amps I have tried but still isn't quite there.

TBH, I am considering selling the Spatials at this point. Perhaps a pair of KEF R3's on stands with a pair of REL subs might get me where I need to be or possibly a pair of KEF R500. The amp still needs to be resolved/replaced but I don't think it's the biggest issue in my system. I am feeling like I might be better to have some colour from the speakers and a neutral amp rather than trying to add colour to the very neutral presentation of the Spatials.

Cheers.

Brendon.

I'd read that as you are actually looking for a full range, neutral presentation with a well controlled image, and not "colour" or even necessarily "front row presentation". It's worth experimenting further with the subs in your current setup as better integration may be the last step you need.

 

If you can't get there with the Spatials and subs, start looking for something approaching a genuine full range speaker. They may be a bit more expensive than you may want to pay, but can work. The good news is that some of the best makers of such speakers at vaguely reasonable prices are Australian. The bad news for you is - not West Australian. If you could only get to the show...

[TerryO]

@Brendon Foster as I mentioned early on it sounded to me like you were having speaker issues not really amp issues, there was a pair of Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands for sale over in Perth recently for not a lot. You may get a pleasant surprise if you tried them out in your system, most everything sound quality wise you said you were originally chasing they actually come very close to delivering and there would more than likely be no need for subs, for what the Baby Grands are they deliver truly excellent base.

 

I have also heard the Baby Grands with a Nova 150 and they actually sounded very good together, I preferred the PrimaLuna with them but the Nova 150 was good..

 

cheers Terry

Edited October 8, 2018 by TerryO

[audio_file]

42 minutes ago, TerryO said:

there was a pair of Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands for sale over in Perth recently for not a lot.

I wonder if that's the pair I bought.

[blybo]

On 25/09/2018 at 2:23 PM, georgehifi said:

More to the question with one back at ya, is there anything that can do everything they do, is my question not answer. Not unless your prepared to go the big  $$$$ on Gryphon, D'Agostio, or the other to me for the money would be a Parasound  Halo JC5 designed by one of the gods John Curl. $5,900us new. (switchable inside for Australian voltage.)

 

Cheers George

A bit late getting back to this thread... but I demo'ed the Parasound Halo integrated as my final in home demo. Took it back the next day and drove straight to the Moon retailer to get my Neo ACE. The Parsound wasn't bad but I'd describe it as a bit shouty and a sound I tired of very quickly. The one I demo'ed was taken out of a stores demo room so had been used for several months before I tried it in my system. It is big on features though.

[Gryffles]

On 04/10/2018 at 7:42 PM, Brendon Foster said:

On 04/10/2018 at 10:13 AM, audio_file said:

Roksan Caspian M2.
Sugden A21A Signature.

Have searches alerts on pretty much every site or there for a Caspian but seem to be rarer than rocking horse poo!

http://www.lenwallisaudio.com/products/secondhand-products/amplification

 

Check page 2 of amplification for a Roksan Caspian power amp

[blakey72]

Pity you don't have an Exposure dealer near you. I think the 2010 or 3010 would be very close to what you have described.

[TOPSHELF]

Whilst i haven't actually heard the Exposure units@blakey72 mentions i have heard lots of their older gear and it was this brand that immediately sprung to mind when reading the OP's description of a sound signature he was looking for.

 

 

[blakey72]

1 hour ago, TOPSHELF said:

Whilst i haven't actually heard the Exposure units@blakey72 mentions i have heard lots of their older gear and it was this brand that immediately sprung to mind when reading the OP's description of a sound signature he was looking for.

 

 

Yeah it fits pretty well. And @Cafad is no slouch when it comes to knowledge about amp characteristics and making recommendations 

[Brendon Foster]

http://www.lenwallisaudio.com/products/secondhand-products/amplification
 
Check page 2 of amplification for a Roksan Caspian power amp

It looks like it's gone already unfortunately... [emoji52]

[Brendon Foster]

So today one of the SNA forum members kindly came over to my place with an Accuphase e260 with DAC40 module. What a beast of an amp! Never heard my speakers sound so engaging at mid-low volume. Two issues however prevented me from pulling the trigger. When increasing the volume (never got past 10.30 on the dial) the treble on my usually incredibly smooth speakers became a little hard and shouty, and the bass became a tad muddy. Despite this, the speakers sounded, rich, powerful, musical and was no doubt an improvement on my own Peachtree Nova 150, especially in the DAC section.

The search continues but I'm getting closer. Still dying to try out Parasound, Hegel and Moon... Anyone in Perth with the above that want to bring some great up for a listen and a beer?

[Cafad]

Perhaps you should try moving up the Accuphase line.  As good as the 200 series is, the 300 and 400 series are better. 

More expensive too of course but that goes without saying.